Eagle94-A1

I know some COs had no problem with parents taking YPT, getting a background check by the BSA, and registering as an MBC. We were told that MBCs also underwent a background check. Depends upon the council. In one council I was in, it was more than an afterschool program, just with subsidized SMs (he got resources he needed from the council. They had a parapro oversaw them and helped them. In another council, it was mixed. One district had a paid parapro running the 3-4 troops afterschool. In another district, 4 troops shared a subsidized SM. He was retired and 4 meetings a week, and camped 4 weekends a month except when camporees occurred. Then all 4 units camped in the same campsite. Problem was when he left, all four units died overnight. Ditto with the parapro. When his wife got orders transferring them, all 3-4 units folded overnight.

Yet the MBCs cannot camp. Will see a lot more of that, especially since it is already done at the Cub level.

And some councils have tacked on an insurance fee to MBCs, even though they can no longer camp with units. Understatement. Less staff, added council fees, and seeing no value for these fees is making many jaded in my area. And some families used Scouting in lieu of sports because they could not afford sport, like my family. Glad my older two are out because I do not think I could afford all 4 of us in the program ( would have been 5, but after multiple attempts to get the wife registered, and when she is finally registered as an MBC, she gets dropped with every other MBC in the council, she said "enough is enough. no more." I honestly do not know how much longer I can afford to stay involved. Sadly not every unit is in that situation. Mine is in a high poverty, rural part of the US where the median income is barely above the US poverty rate.

I hope when the mergers come to my area, the new pros actually listen and work with volunteers and develop relationships with them to get things done. Sadly the pros of late do not listen and do not stay around long enough for that to happen. Most quit within a year. Between the shortness of tenure and the lack of respect, there is a lot of distrust of professionals. And while sometimes change is good, at other times it is not. Sometimes the volunteers do indeed know better how to handle local situations because they know the community, and if a long time volunteer, what will work and what will not. I know I have seen pros try to implement things in my area that have been attempted in the past, and have failed, in some cases miserably. Since the DEs we have gotten lately are fresh out of college, with no Scouting experience whatsoever, not only are they completely clueless to the program, but also they are clueless to the local situation. Their bosses are telling them what to do based, upon their experience elsewhere, which is not at all similar to the local situation. Best example was my move to the district as a pro. Having moved from a metro council to a smaller size council, sorry cannot remember the class size, I discovered because of a variety of factors, things that work in a metro council do not work in a rural one. Rounds ups being a good example. In the metro council, packs adopted schools to recruit from, usually the closest one to the school. In the rural council, because of bussing all over the place, packs shared schools because people joined by closest meeting location, which might not be the pack closest to the school like in the metro council. Thankfully I had a Scouting background as a youth, unit Scouter, and district Scouter. I knew I needed to listen to my volunteers who knew the situation better than the guy from out of town.

Sadly i see this in the future. Local distributers do not find it in their best interest to be a distributor anymore. IMHO, BSA has not treated them well. I know the Centennial Uniform debacle back in 2008 hurt a lot of distributors because they were buying merchandise that was going to soon be discontinued. My local distributor had a loss on Scouting merchandise, and quit selling stuff. And apparently his was everywhere. I visited a local distributor that was a direct competitor to the national scout shop, and they probably did as much business as the scout shop. I can tell you they hired folks who knew Scouting and the outdoors, and really helped folks out. There knowledgeable staff worked with folks to make sure they got exactly what they needed, not necessarily the most expensive merch. When I needed gear for a major trip, they were my go to store, especially since they worked out a deal with the contingent leaders: 25% off non-Scout merchandise and 10% off Scout merchandise. They too quit being a distributor once they finally sold all their merch.

Source is a FB post by a previous NOAC judge/trainer.

That would be me. Highly dedicated Scouter: Award of Merit, Silver Beaver, and was slated to be the first female Vigil of my home lodge before the accusation happened. Banned for life because of the accusation. And the "scout" making the accusation had a known history of lying to stay out of trouble. A year before that accusation, he lied about 3 other adults giving him permission to leave an event with a bunch of friends. The other Scouts in his group came forward and told the truth which prevented the adults from getting in trouble. Yes, we need to believe youth as their safety is paramount. I know 4 people who were abused, 2 were brothers and i personally knew their perp. Thankfully he ended up behind bars. But there does not seem to be any repercussions on false claims. I would look at the sources and evaluate. Wikipedia is not a completely reliable source. Heck they even have an article on its reliability and another on hoaxes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hoaxes Also anyone can be signed up as a wikipedia editor. I remember signing up to share some new, hot off the presses info on my specialty on the Wikipedia page. Had everything to prove ti was legit by academic sources: proper citations and documentation easily reproducible. long story short after 2 days of back and forth with another editor removing my info and notes,. I said the heck with it.

I too was involved in ceremonies, AIA, kept the Vigil, etc. We did not have problems with youth and regalia as we had extremely active dancers. Initially it was the memorization of the ceremony scripts that youth complained about. Then when the National OA Committee comprised of 60 ADULTS (major emphasis) and 3 youth decided to mandate the AOL and Crossover Skits Ceremonies, that raised the ire of the youth. When the National OA Vice Chief at the time visited my lodge, he was confronted with why the decision was made by the youth of the lodge. He was asked so many times he stated the decision was made and he will not be answering any questions on the matter. When those mandates happened, youth in my area lost interest, and it has spiraled. Must be area specific, because as I stated the youth WANTED (emphasis) the Native American aspect of the ceremonies. And there was protests over the decision in my lodge on the matter. Again the National Vice Chief was confronted over this. As for honoring Native American, I admit it was extremely dependent on the lodge. Some of the lodges I have been in had good relations with local nations, some had great relations with local nations, and some had poor to no relations. One of the guys I did ceremonies with uncle was a tribal (sic) councilman. One of the AIA advisors I worked with was on the local Nation's powwow historical and powwow committees. No one I have encountered in person has said it is about time to end it. Sadly I have encountered folks who want the OA to go away. And while brotherhood and cheerful service are the lifeblood of the OA, AIA was the spirit that motivated, inspired, and guided folks. Sadly I have seen the decline of the OA corresponding to the deemphasis of the AIA aspects.

Also it is about max capacity for medevc. I have a friend whose dream was to go to Philmont, but he can never go. He is over 320 pounds, 6'11", and is a powerlifter. He humped the hills of Afghanistan carrying double the weight that what Philmont recommends. But if things happened in Afghanistan, a CH-46 would have been used for medevac. Civilian medevacs have a max patient capacity of 295 pounds, which coincides with the max weight for HA. Sadly Congress got rid of the CH-46s of PEDRO that the Marines used to supplement civilian medevacs.

And this is where many folks, including some survivors, believe the problem is. Many folks, including some survivors, believe justice is not being served as many of the perps are dead, elderly, or will suffer no criminal penalties because of SOL. The folks who committed the crimes are getting away with it. However, because BSA had files of alleged and actual perps that they used to try and protect its members, the BSA is being charged with all of the abuse, despite its attempts to prevent it. As for the legal system, thankfully our legal system has progressed to have mandatory reporting laws so individuals and organizations can report allegations without fear of potential civil and legal trouble. People forget that mandatory reporting laws started in the late 1960/early 1970s and did not become widespread until the mid-to late 1980s. And even then, mandatory reporters were initially only physicians, then other medical professions, before it came to those of us who work with children. When the bulk of these crimes were committed, if the parents would not press charges, then nothing happened to the perp. You can see that in IVF case files. As I mentioned elsewhere, someone posted a file where because the parents would not press charges, the perp went to a mental institution instead of a prison where he belonged. After getting of the mental institution, he eventually applied to work for the BSA, and without a criminal record, probably would have been hired. But because he was in the IVF file, and his information was checked against it, he was not hired. And all volunteers had their name crossed checked against the IVF.

Not every council provides free training, outside of the online stuff. And even then, the online stuff leaves a lot to be desired. Heck even the current live classes have watered down materials compared to older courses. And then you got old fogeys who are already trained.

Survivors, no. The frauds who are looking to make a quick buck, absolutely. They are hurting actual victims. Which is why I wanted vetting of all claims. This is my biggest problem. Standards for the case were based upon today's laws and technology, and not that of the time the crimes occurred. BSA is demonized for having the IVF, which was the best way to prevent know pedophiles at the time. As I stated, someone posted a file where the perp tried to become a professional, and the IVF prevented him from working for the BSA. And not everyone is being held accountable. What about the perps, will they be going to jail or having to pay their victims? What about the parents who would not press charges on the perps, which allowed them to remain free? Will other victims go after the parents of previous victims because they did nothing?

Oh yes inflation is a factor. So is the loss of COs and membership. But let's admit it, the bankruptcy, and the increases in insurance are the biggest factors. And while some of the money is coming from one time payments, some of those payments are coming from loans that need to be paid back.

For whatever reason, I am just now seeing your post. As was explained to me when I asked about this way back when I was a DE and had this issue, because of the charter's legal language, the CO is the only ones who can remove leaders, except for criminal allegations. COs have the right to hire and fire unit volunteers, not the BSA As for why the CO system exists, it is my understanding that the CO concept was to give BSA some credibility in the early days, and communities ownership of their units.

By making the program cost prohibitive to many. Most of my Scouts are lucky. medicare/medicaid in my state covers youth registration. Yes, but insurance rates, and legal costs, are driving up the prices. When oldest joined Cubs 15 years ago, it was $15/year or $27 with Boys' Life. And there was no council fees. Today the youth fee is $80, and council fees vary from $12 to $80 on top of the national fee. And there was no new member fee then, today it is $25. A new Scout in my council is charged $140 with out Scouts' Life. That is almost 10 times the cost.

As you know, I am for the victims. I know several personally. However, not everyone who was part of the lawsuit was a victim, but rather someone trying to money There are a few documented cases shown in one of the bankruptcy threads where there is a link to some of the questionable filings. Also one of the original lawyers disassociated himself from the group he help found because of some of the filing practices of the other firms. One person's mother found out he was filing, and sent a letter to the judge saying he was never in Scouting and is only trying to get money!. Personally, I think all the fraudulent claimants, as well as those lawyers who did not do their due diligence in fling the claim, should be fined to the maximum extent possible, with the fines going towards the victims' trust.

I love the double standards that BSA has. The rules apply to thee, but not to me.

Correct, I hate to say it, and I find it a ridiculous rule, but family camping now violates YP rules, except at the Cub Scout Level. Long story short, if you have a litigious family in your unit, and trust me you won't know until you are sued, and something happens, they will sue everyone. Even if it is not a BSA event, but you are using troop equipment and resources to promote the event or at the event, the lawyers will go after CO and BSA, in addition to you.

Again, I would follow current BSA policies, and cancel family camping. And looking at the Age Appropriate Guidelines Chart, https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/680-685.pdf?_gl=1*1cs29xm*_ga*OTQ3ODk0MTA5LjE2OTAzMDE3Nzk.*_ga_20G0JHESG4*MTY5MzMxNTg2My40LjEuMTY5MzMxNTg4NC4zOS4wLjA.&_ga=2.6422011.839612725.1693315864-947894109.1690301779 , Family Camping has not been listed as an approved Scouts BSA activity since at least August 2021. As for making it "an unofficial gathering of friends" You are putting the Scouters and CO in legal and financial danger if anything happens. BSA has thrown thousands of COs under the bus with the bankruptcy, what makes you think they would not throw you under the bus? It is not worth it.

I would not go there. It is putting you and your CO in legal danger if something happens.

@dangale, as @ToKindle96 pointed out, unless all adults are registered in a unit position, MBCs no longer count, adults can no longer camp with troops, ships, posts, and crews effective this weekend.

Another nail in the coffin of the OA IMHO. While cheerful service is the heart of the OA, AIA was the spirit that motivated and guided.

Because the COR not only represents the CO at the district and council levels, they are voting members of both, and will be listened to more as a result. Only person who could possibly change that is the Catholic Church's IH, and that is if the charter is still in effect since the transfer paperwork has been filled out and signed. More on that below. This is one way to do it. It is probably the best Another way is the following, but it is drastic. Since the Lutheran Church already has a troop, they have a COR. I would have the SM, CC and the Lutheran Church's COR meet with the SE with all the transfer paperwork and signatures and have the SE explain why you cannot charter with the Lutheran Church, especially since they want a unit.. My understanding is that once the release paperwork is signed, the Catholic Church is no longer a CO, and the COR no longer has any authority unless the Lutheran Church appoints him COR. But tthe catholic Church keeps the money and property, unless they agree to transfer that as well. Good Luck

My council is charging a fee for all registered adults, including MBCs. I am told the fee covers insurance, but since MBCs cannot camp, shouldn't be discounted?

Is any other council adding the council fee to MBCs? Mine is.