Eagle94-A1

Considering the adult with the body guards is a Distinguished Eagle Scout, and told this story to the CSE and everyone at the 1998 All Hands conference, and nothing happened, I do not think anything you can help.

BSA has contradictory information on this. While the Guide to Awards and Insignia states: Patrol emblem (sic), cloth, many different emblems including one blank to make your own design; Scout, (emphasis added) right sleeve, position. Patrol emblems are 2-inch round emblems with tan border and background. They may not have numbers or letters and can have up to three thread colors. See specific emblem for correct number. Optional for Webelos Scouts if Webelos dens are named. (p. 31 https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33066/33066_Scouts_BSA_Insignia_WEB.pdf ) Another official BSA publication, Bryan on Scouting says it is perfectly acceptable for adults to wear them. Here are two links, the first having a response from Peter Self, the then Team Lead of Program Development. He states "...you will not find mention of adult patrols in our literature and why we do not form our adult leaders into patrols in the course of our normal program operations. Having said all of this, there is no specific statement in our literature which prohibits adults from wearing a patrol emblem, but if you compare closely the pictures of the Boy Scout uniform to the adult leader uniforms on the last two pages of the Guide to Awards and Insignia, you’ll notice only a few differences. One of these is the absence of a patrol emblem on the adult uniform.": https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/03/03/the-geezers-aka-the-adult-patrol/ https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2017/02/23/why-adults-in-this-troop-call-themselves-the-time-lords-patrol/ Personally I do not wear them. They are for the Scouts.

I would not worry about it. National screwed this up when they changed over to green on tan numbers. Besides National did say uniform items from the old uniform and new uniform are interchangeable. While white on red numbers are suppose to be for Cub Scouts and Venturers, Scouts wear green on tan and Sea Scouts wear white on navy now, National did state in 2009 when the Centennial Uniform (CU) came out that uniform items of the Oscar de la Renta (ODL) Uniforms were interchangeable with the CUs. So you could wear green numbers and loops on the ODLs and vice versa. Many units, especially ones with Cub Scout Packs, continue to wear red in my area. Some units do not care what color you wear as National really screwed up on this. I say National scerewed up because of the confusion at the time or CU release was the instructions. It was a "Charley Foxtrot" The Insignia Guide (IG)covering the new uniform came out almost a year after the uniforms were available. Between being revealed in May 2008, becoming available in August 2008, and the IG coming out in May 2009, there were so many different flyers on who wears what that NO ONE, NOT EVEN NATIONAL SCOUT SHOP EMPLOYEES (emphasis) knew what was going on. First everyone in the CU wore green on tan numbers, including Webelos and Cub Scouters. Then it switched to Webelos and Cub Scouters still wear white on red numbers. Then it briefly switched to Webelos and Cub Scouters wore red on tan numbers ( that was for about 3 -4 weeks and they were never made but pics exist somewhere). Then it switched to Webelos wear white on red, Cub Scouters wear green on tan. Then it switched back to Webelos and Cub Scouters still wear white on red numbers. The changes were so fast and contradictory, that I called the national scout shop I worked for in college to get the correct information prior to buying my uniform. I was told by the National Scout Shop staff that the IG was coming out soon and that it would state Webelos wear white on red, Cub Scouters wear green on tan. And that is what I bought: green on tan numbers and the green on tan 'Centennial" trained strip. about 10 days after my purchase and everything is on the shirt, the IG comes out, and states Webelos and Cub Scouters still wear white on red numbers. Fool that I am, I went out and got the updated colored numbers, and ordered the new CU red on tan trained strip, since none of the tan on red trained strips I had already fit on the 'smokes pocket."

As my Latin 3 teacher told us, 'Practice, practice, practice." I wonder what BSA would say about the camp out that had 36 armed adults with automatic firearms, specifically MP5s. Absolutely nothing, except laugh.

This phrase in the G2A says it all: "Youth from other countries who temporarily reside in the United States, or have moved here,.... " Considering she was born and bred in NYC, she doesn't qualify. Actually the local council determines what rank you get, and apparently if teh G2A applies or not.

EH?

If memory serves, this is what she earned in Scouts Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Scout's_Award_(Scouts_Canada)

You know my thoughts on advancement: it is not a race, but a journey. I think National made a good decision on stating the earliest they would recognize any group of female Eagles as I believe it would create more problems in the long term. As for Ms. Ireland, I do not want to reward bad behavior, and that is exactly how she is acting: badly. She has gotten exactly what she has been fighting for, the opportunity to earn Eagle. Now she wants more, she wants work she has done prior to joining to count.

Yes someone made the decision at the council level. Whether it was proper or not, it is done. And National does indeed have a history of not penalizing youth for the mistakes of the adults, even when the youth should know better and there is plenty of time to rectify the situation. But in this instance I hope and pray that National Sticks to their guns on this. Granting her Eagle would be a disservice to every single girl who is currently pursuing Eagle by earning the awards as members of the BSA. But if BSA wants to give it to her, then they shoudl also give it to every female Sea Scout QM , Venturer Silver or Summit holder, and possibly Explorer Achievement and G.O.L.D. awards recipient.

There is much debate on the their use of the GTA policy. Here it is in full: 5.0.4.0 Youth From Other Countries Youth from other countries who temporarily reside in the United States, or have moved here, may register in a BSA unit and participate in advancement. If progress from a foreign Scouting association is to be considered and applied to BSA requirements, then the foreign Scout must meet in person (or over electronic media) with members of the council or district advancement committee, along with at least one adult leader or committee member of the receiving unit. Previous advancement work is reviewed to determine the BSA rank—up to, but not including Eagle Scout rank—the youth is qualified to receive. The candidate must present evidence of membership and advancement from the previous association. Once a rank is determined, it is reported through the BSA’s internet portal for reporting advancement or on an advancement report. This procedure applies to all ranks except Eagle Scout, which is not considered equivalent to any other association’s rank. If it can be established that Life rank has been achieved, then the council or district advancement committee can determine which BSA merit badges may be awarded based on previous effort and experiences that meet BSA merit badge requirements as written. This may leave a number of additional badges to earn— required or not—to achieve Eagle. Requirements for active participation, position of responsibility, Scout spirit, the service project, and the unit leader conference must be completed in a BSA unit. This procedure also applies to members of the BSA who, while living abroad, have earned advancement in another Scouting association. Many point out that whomever granted her Life did it inappropriately as she is not a youth from another country but a US citizen. The key parts of that are "Youth from other countries who temporarily reside in the United States, or have moved here which she did neither. Further, none of the advancement she did with Scouts Canada should have counted since as as US citizen, she would need to be registered with the BSA in addition to another Scouting association. That is clearly stated in the Guide to Advancement. At this point, we can all agree it is no longer a matter of equality, or her earning Eagle. rather she wants to be THE first female Eagle. IMHO, if any girls need to get credit towards Eagle, it is the girls in Sea Scouting and Venturing who followed the rules.

Well if she wants to be recognized as an Eagle for work she done retroactively so she can be the first, I am thinking why not? Then we can go back and retroactively recognize all female Sea Scout Quartermasters, Venturing Silver and Summit recipients as Eagle Scouts and possible the female Explorer Achievement and G.O.L.D. Award recipients if those two awards are comparable. After all, fair is fair.

How about a coffee car? 😛 When I was the camp commissioner at Camp Bonner in NC, I would put fresh coffee in the USGI thermos, pick up the newspapers, and drive to the campsites to delivering fresh, hot coffee and a paper to the SM and ASMs. And since I was a tad bit homesick, I blasted YOU ARE MY SUNSHINE, since it is my home state's official song, to let everyone know I was on the way. Only time I had any problems was LDS week. No coffee, only papers.

My thoughts. 1) As I stated, i saw this work in the UK. One camp was very successful in allowing Scout Association, Girl Guides, School Groups, out of country WOSM and WAGGS units. One camp eventually folded. They followed all camp rules. 2) Local councils have been doing something on a smaller scale and limited. Two councils I have been in had facility rentals, specfically the COPE Course. In fact Marketing the COPE Course to Outside Groups was a point in NCS COPE training back in the day. In the council that allowed this to happen, it was very successful and the cope course has expanded greatly since I ran it the inaugural year. The other course I ran, which was established and in great shape, eventually stopped having facility rentals, and the course is now not certified and an eyesore at the camp. 3) if a council does this, they need to make sure the rules are enforced, and not just selectively. We have a camp that the rules are not enforced. When the ranger has attempted to enforce the rules at some events, he is overruled, and that causes major problems when the same units show up outside the event and complain about being able to do XYZ before. AND IT GETS WORSE. We had an outside group with some members having a connection to BSA. They are use to the rules not being enforced at events, and that group abused the campsite they were in. Cars everywhere, fires where cars were not, and tents set up in the airondack shelters. OH and blocking the path on the outskirts of the campsite. one royal mess. 4)As mentioned, the devil is in the details.

Seen this done in the UK. It can work.

Second Webelos pin. Or we could go back to the original pin design without a color so that the number of pins equals the number of times earned.

If that is suppose to be the case, why is there no Lion pin? Further, why do they automatically become the next level on June 1, but earn the old rank pin?

As @RememberSchiff stated, there was the pistol a Scout brought to camp. I've personally dealt with cigarettes/cigars, alcohol, and pornography. And yes the Scouts can get creative hiding it. The one with alcohol had it in a Scope bottle. Got the idea off a movie he saw. And one of the incidents with porn had had the Scout taping it to his leg and covered with his knee sock. We didn't catch the "Scope" until he was tipsy one nite. We caught the leg guy during a shake down of the gear. The sock was coming down, and he was making sure it stayed up,but the other leg he was not concerned about.

Well, no one has complained yet about it, so I am not worried. Again EVERYTHING (enphasis) is required to be typed in the public schools, so for these kids, it is not a big deal. NOW having them hand write something. That is a challenge.

I am in a similar predicament. I am looking to get a lighter pack as I am using a Camp Trails Wind River Pack. It is approx. 5.5 pounds, and is approx. 80 L expandable to 90L. After looking at what is out there. I am sticking with the Wind River. The 35# weight limit is a major concern for some packs, and for others, the weight savings was negligable for the cost. In one case, the pack weighed more than the Wind River! Not only do I use the pack for family camping, there have been two instances where I had to deal with medical emergencies, and gear had to be redistributed. First time it happened, I had a cheap pack from K Mart, and the pack broke from the excess weight.

District I am in wants it typed. #1 reason for that is that since handwriting isn't done in the schools locally, it is legible. Apparently they had issues in the past about legibility. The #2 reason for that is every student in the public school system is issued a laptop and the bulk of the Scouts are already use to typing everything up. Most homeschoolers and private school students also have computer access. So it isn't a big deal. I know my oldest is currently working on his paperwork. He has a working copy that he writes in pencil with and edits.. But he types up stuff once he finishes with the working copy.

Did he go home early or were you with him last year? I ask because only twice have I seen anxiety like what you are describing with a 2nd year, or later, camper. First time was a camper who left early his first summer. Long story short camp was literally down the road from mom, mail made him homesick, and she picked him up Wednesday, we had a chat with mom about the letters and about not picking him up the 2nd year. Yes, he was severely homesick, but he made it through. The second instance was more complicated. This was an 18 year old camp staffer working staff for the first time. Dad was his SM and they did everything together: camp outs, summer camp as a camper, even a HA trip. Outside of Scouting, whenever he did out of town sports trips, dad went with him, although dad was doing his own thing. Long story short, Staffing camp was the first time he was away from dad ever. He did OK the first year, and is working camp again.

Well, oldest is officially working on his Eagle Project. It's taken about 3 weeks, but everything has been reviewed, questions the DAC and Eagle BOR had answered, some additional documentation completed, and it is approved. Now the hard part: implementation. His project is building a mobile gaming station for the pediatric ward at a hospital. Today, he presented his proposal to the head of a foundation for a grant. Question the head had was: why only one station, how many are needed? The head also asked if he would be willing to present his proposal to the foundation's board of directors for final approval. To help him out, Oldest and the head's secretary will be meeting to create a PowerPoint presentation to secure the funds. She is also going to help him out . He is now in the process of upgrading his project a bit. I now know why an "Eagle Project Coach" is recommended. The planning and paperwork alone is a major pain in the buttocks. It is a far cry from the single page of my youth. And he has not gotten into the nuts and bolts of the project, just the preliminary work for approval. And that is where the balancing act lies for me. When my friends and I did our projects back in the day, we did all of the work ourselves: planning, presenting, executing. Adult interaction was basically approvals and providing transportation. Heck one friend used the powertools in his dad's workshop for his project as it was before the G2SS. When I conducted my project, only adult there was my mom, and she was providing food and drinks for us while working on the project. So while trying to give him as much experience on his own, I know he needs adult help. And I've helped Scouts in the past. In fact one of the folks on the district Eagle BOR who was in when he presented his project to the DAC told my son that I helped his son back in the day on his Eagle Project. I provided contact info, gave ideas, and provided resources for that Eagle to use for his project. So I am trying my best to limit how I help to how I would help other Scouts. It's hard balancing the roles of dad and ASM. But his project is really testing me. I am extremely proud of what he wants to do, and yes I have been bragging to my friends . That led to one of them reminding me "It's his project."

HEAR YOU SCOUTS, AND YOU PARENTS TOO, OF THE ... TALE OF TWO EAGLES! Once there were two Eagles. The First Eagle was the son of a "Double Eagle," or an Eagle Scout and Explorer Silver recipient. "Double Eagle" dad pushed and pushed and pushed his son to earn Eagle at the ripe old age of 13. Since the Silver Award was no longer around for Exploring, dad did no pushing for that. Since the First Eagle met his dad's expectations, and thought his journey was over, he quit Scouting at 13, only to rejoin many years later when his own son became a Tiger Cub. Now the First Eagle had a cousin. Both "Double Eagle" Uncle and First Eagle Cousin pushed and pushed and pushed the Scout to earn his Eagle. As a 13 year old Life Scout, he was well on his way to becoming an Eagle at 14. But the Second Eagle took some winding trails after earning Life. First he did a local high adventure program instead of the traditional MB summer camp program, and he had FUN! A few months later he took the NYLT course of its day; Brownsea 22. It was a challenging week and he had FUN. Next Second Eagle was inducted into the OA, becoming a Brotherhood Member before earning Eagle. And guess what, HE HAD FUN! Then Second Eagle went to a National Scout Jamboree and then did a Canadian canoeing trek. It it was FUN. Finally Second Eagle realized he was 17 and some odd months, and he needed to buckle down fast if he was to become an Eagle. He finished everything but his Eagle BOR 5 days before turning 18. And Second Eagle stayed active in Scouting. He got involved in Sea Scouts, earning Ordinary, and then the OA again, becoming a Vigil. Second Eagle was selected to participate in the European Camp Staff Program, spending an entire summer at Scout camps in the UK. He also attended a World Scout Jamboree. He stayed active in a variety or roles, and was proudest when his three sons earned their Bobcat badge wit him as their DL. Now tell me who had more fun in Scouting, my cousin the First Eagle, or me the Second Eagle? Over the years, no one has asked me how old i was when i got it, or how many palms I earned. They ask if I am an Eagle, and what my adventures have been. And I can go on and on about my 35 years in Scouting as a youth and adult. Good luck on your journey.

Ever hear my "Tale of the Two Eagles" ?

110% SPOT ON! I left a troop that had issues, lots of them. While I worked to improve the situation over several years, and it was slowly getting better. But then the situation reversed course suddenly, and it got a lot worse extremely fast. I would say for about 8 months or so, I was tempted to yank my kids out of the troop, and only stayed because my sons didn't want to leave their friends. But it was affecting them. Oldest wanted to earn Eagle was was going to leave afterwards. Middle son was becoming more and more pessimistic, and constantly complained. BEST DECISION WAS LEAVING AND I WISH I WOULD HAVE DONE IT SOONER! Not going to lie, it was hard on all of us. Kids do miss their friends. But they kids have been reinvigorated and are enjoying Scouts now. I wish I would have tansferred sooner.