Eagle94-A1

Don't I know it. My old troop had Cubs coming in from 2 different packs at one time. One pack had an outstanding program, and their Webelos were fully prepared, if not chomping at the bit to join a troop. Their WDL started off with SCOUTING ADVENTURE so that A) to give them, and their parents, as much time to transition to Scouts and B) prepare them for the Webeloree Competition in March. The second pack did not have a mediocre program, still treated their Webelos as Cub Scouts incapable of doing things on their own. They were not ready for Scouts, and over 1/2 dropped within a year. One good comparison between the two packs is watching the dens at Webeloree. First pack's den may struggle some, but you see them doing it on their own. Second pack's adults kept jumping in and doing stuff for them every time they struggled. Best comparison was a CASTAWAY WEEKEND with the troop, 3 weeks before Cross Over for the first pack, and 3 months before the second. First pack had their shelters either completed are almost finished before the second pack even started the single large group shelter.And then the parents were doing the bulk of the work.

So yes, they SHOULD have Cyberchip.

Theoretically, Webelos 2s/AOLs who Cross Over SHOULD (emphasis) be able to earn Scout after their very first Troop meeting. Here's why.

You may have read my feelings on NSPs on other threads. I am not a fan. Currently my troop is a one patrol troop, and hence use the Traditional patrol model. They placed 3rd overall at camporee, and that is with the patrol being DQed for one event. The two patrols that beat them were also Traditional Patrols.

HastTagScouts reminded me of another factor, how the troop is organized? Some troops have aged based patrols, i.e. New Scout Patrol (NSPs) , Experienced Patrol, and Older Scout Patrol; while others use Traditional Patrols, aka Mixed Aged Patrols. In My experience, NSPs focus more on advancement, whereas Traditional Patrols tend to focus on skills. For whatever reason troops around here don;t like youth signing off. I.HATE.THAT. (emphasis) If there was one thing I could change in my current troop, is have more youth than the SPL sign off.

There are a lot of variables that affect how fast a Scout advances. One of the biggest differences between Cub Scouts and Scouts BSA is the standard for. Cub Scouts is "Do Your Best." Scouts BSA is currently'"DO, " and once upon a time it was "master the skills." Whereas a Cub Scout could have some trouble with something and still earn advancement, Scouts need to meet the requirements as written. So that is one factor. As for having AOL, I use to say if they had it, they should get it within a month or two since SCOUTING ADVENTURE Activity Badge is 86% of the Scout Rank. BUT I have found the quality of Webelos dens vary from pack to pack, and even from WDL to WDL within a pack. Best example are the WDLs my three boys had. Oldest had a good WDL who really prepared them for Boy Scouts. They knew the stuff, and advancement occurred fairly quickly, 1 to 2 months tops. Middle son had 2 great WDLs, and most of his group that joined the troop he was in got it withing 2 weeks of joining. One thing his WDL did was SCOUTING ADVENTURE in 4th grade, using it as an elective for Webelos rank, and then having them do an elective to make up for it during 5th grade. Youngest had a good WDL, but started the transition late. Since she started working on Scouting Adventure a few months before Cross Over, they didn't have as much repetition fro the Scouting Adventure as the other dens. Most of them got Scout either during or after Summer camp, 5 months after Cross Over. So that is another factor. A third factor is who is authorized to sign off? I have found that when PLs, SPL, and select older Scouts sign off, the Scouts tend to take more ownership on the matter, especially PLs. The PLS work a lot more with the Scouts, and are easier to get access for the sign off. If only adults sign off, everyone is trying to get their attention. Another factor is how flexible is whomever is signing off. Sadly my older 2 boys had been in a troop that only adults sign off. All three boys' current troop only allows the adults AND the SPL. A little better IMHO. Anyway they have met adults outside of meeting nights, at their homes, at Starbuck, or at a park to get stuff signed off. I have met Scouts at the library too. Regarding meetings, that really isn't the time set aside for that because each Scout advances at their own pace. In adults only sign off troops, It is either before the meeting, during the Interpatrol Activity aka Game Time, after the meeting, or some other time.

While I have not done N. Tier, I did fly up to LaDomaine, Quebec for canoeing. Here are my thoughts. Weight and space are not nearly as important compared to backpacking. I would use the tents they provide. MAKE SURE YOU SET THEM UP PRIOR TO LEAVING BASE CAMP! (emphasis). We used a Canadian troop's gear Saved weight and cost when flying. Whatever you do, do not rely just on a dry bag. Have layers of protection. I usually have 3 layers of protection, 2 waterproof ( items in individual bags and one for the compartments of my pack) and 1 strong, protective water resistant bag, aka ALICE. ALICE protects the garbage bags I use, and I carry extra bags. I have not had any problems in 31 years using this method. And that includes 3 water based 50 milers, and numerous weekend trips and training sessions. I have a dry bag and used it for less than a year before it got holes in it. Yes it was a Coleman, so it was cheap. If you do use a drybag, make sure you got materials to patch the holes if you get any. And I would still uses the layers of protection above. Your call. I didn't have a chair back in the day. But I'm older now and enjoy my creature comforts. 😀 OH HECK NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! (emphasis) I had a friend relying on an iphone sized drybag, and it leaked, destroying his phone. I would keep electronics to a minimum. You can have too many issues. Only reason I would carry a phone is for pictures. Do they still sell the disposable waterproof camera's still? There are cheaper options. I've seen someone use stretchy work gloves before. I personally use diving gloves, but I've had them for 25 years now. I do not see why not. I've heard good things about them, but never used one before. And when i went to Canada, would not have been able to afford it. We were advised to get either a military surplus European rucksack or a USGI medium ALICE. I got the European rucksack because it was canvas and cheaper. MISTAKE! Fell apart within a few months of use as a school book bag. My ALICE has been with me a long time, and still going. Plus the quick release straps make it easy to attach to thwarts. Good luck.

I am told the move to belt loops was because parents did not want to sew the arrow points.

Apparently the chapter is no longer giving that option. My boys received their letters today. When I gave it to the oldest, he told me he is still not interested. He told the OA election team that, but they still left his name on the ballot.

I bet those stats do not include those eligible who do not want to be part of the OA and declined to put their name on the ballots. Again my oldest declined when his name came up to be on the ballot the previous 3 years. Ditto my middle son last year. In fact thinking about it, the last time I witnessed an election, 1/2 of those eligible declined.

Yes. Rationale for that is to allow the Scouts to compete and have fun. HOWEVER the ideas for the events are picked by the SPLs. We have a SPL & SM Crackerbarrel Saturday nite that is a Thorns and Rose's session as well as planning session for next year. All of next year's events have already been selected by the SPLs.

I admit, when I was a youth doing elections and as an advisor. I hated "sash and dash." But if National believes numbers are more important than quality, if the OA is now a "gimme" instead of a true honor society, if OA is now another check mark or line on the Scouting resume, then I will encourage my boys to go through the Ordeal...and allow them to walk away. And if the boys think it is pointless to join something that has no real meaning, and do not want to do the Ordeal, I am not pushing.

So for good news from this weekend. We are a small, one patrol troop. The SM had some serious concerns about the patrol as they were your typical Scouts: having fun, not focused on practicing for the events, etc. But he followed Green Bar Bill's adage: "Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" Over the past 2 months as they prepped, he had some major concerns, and thought he was setting them up to fail. Took all of his self control not to step in. And to his credit he did not interfere. At camporee, our Scouts had no adults following them around events. In fact we saw them only at 2 events the entire weekend: the event our adults were running, and the one right next to us. The success or failure of the weekend was all on them. They came in 3rd overall. And that was with one event they were DQed from for safety issues. They built a catapult at camp, using a shovel as part of the arm instead of some type of basket end. Scouts will surprise you , if you let them.

They sat down during the work part of the Ordeal, not the ceremony itself. When I asked why they were not sent home, the lodge adviser told me sending candidates home fro violating the restrictions is considered hazing and is no longer allowed. A candidate has to willing quit and ask to go home.

Don't get me started. Ok I admit, I used a cheat sheet of some sort for ceremonies with names involved, specifically Arrow of Light, AOL, and Call Out Ceremonies. I've used scroll, hidden list on a fan, or my favorite arrows with names on them from a quiver. But Pre Ordeal, Ordeal, and Brotherhood Ceremonies were memorized. I was at one lodge's Ordeal, and they had candlelit podium for the principles to read their lines from. Another Lodge had the four principles, but only 3 spoke, reading their lines. As for candidates violating restrictions, I was furious that we had to separate an adult candidate from the rest of the candidate group, and allow him to complete the Ordeal despite him constantly talking and complaining. But the worse was the group of 10-15 candidates who said they had enough cheerful service and basically sat down and refused to do work that rest of the afternoon. I was glad I had to leave the Ordeal weekend early and found out about that event after the fact.

As some may know, I have been in the OA for a long time. I have served as an executive board member as a youth, and as an adviser in multiple lodges. Even when I stepped down as chapter adviser to focus on Cub Scouts, and working with a troop, whenever I was asked for assistance, I provided it. Especially when it concerned ceremonies. I know how powerful ceremonies can be, and want them to be the most meaningful and special for those in them, and watching them. So last night I was very discouraged at the Call Out Ceremony I attended last night. An adult in uniform, stepped forward, read names off a sheet of paper, and lined them up. No youth were involved except those called out, no regalia, no mention of what it means to be elected into the OA. Nothing I have seen in the numerous ceremonies I've performed, wrote, coached, or saw to make the ceremony special was done. There were a lot of disappointed Scouts and adults present at that ceremony. To rub salt into the wound for me, my two oldest sons were called out. They have been eligible for 4 and 2 years respectively BUT have had no interest in the OA, and always removed their names from the ballot. I do not know what their SM said to them to agree to give the OA a try, but I fear that last nite's disappointment may have gotten them uninterested in the OA again. I found out what happened when the camporee chief, who not only had a son that was called out, but he himself was called out, apologized profusely for the ceremony. Apparently the Arrowman responsible for the Call Out Ceremony did not communicate with anyone about the need for the ceremony. He emailed the the camporee chief the list of new candidates and asked him to give the list to the other chapter's ceremony team, less than 2 hours before the ceremony. No one in that chapter knew anything about doing a Call Out Ceremony. As for my chapter, we no longer have a ceremony team because they no longer can do AOL and Cross Over Ceremonies, which is the bulk of what they did. It seems as if the OA is slowly dying. "Sash and Dash" Arrowman are on the rise. One individual lamented that it appears that getting into the OA is a "gimme" nowadays; something to be checked off on the path to Eagle. It seems as if no one cares anymore as the OA has lost it's uniqueness.

Respectfully disagree. IMHO National, in their quest to have more Eagles have lowered the standards, which in turn has lowered the Eagle Scout Prestige. I remember reading in many copies of the BSHB that to advance you must "Master the skills" Even when that was taken out of the handbook in the 1990s, the Guide to Advancement stated that " The Badge represents what a Scout CAN DO, not what he has done (sic)." to 2019's "The badge signifies that a young person—through participation in a series of educational activities—has provided service to others, practiced personal responsibility, and set the examples critical to the development of leadership; all the while working to live by the Scout Oath and Scout Law." Further evidence of National lowering standards is their willingness to overrule district EBORs and council appeal decisions. Sadly I saw the results of that; an "Eagle" who couldn't have a conversation about anything in his Scouting career. Yes the District realized that the unit, specifically grandfather SM, ASM dad, and CC mom, pencilwhipped his advancement, denied the Eagle, and came up with a plan for him to earn it legitimately. Appeal to council got the same results. National overruled the district and council, stating "you do not penalize the youth for the mistakes of the adults." back in my day it was 'my advancement, my responsibility." This has led to a "just give it to them" mentality. And I just read that Time extensions for Eagle are now allowed if National approves them. Then their is the rise of summer camp as a merit badge factory and MBUs. How many Scouts have gotten MBs they didn't truly earn? I know my oldest got one at a MBU that I as a father made him do the missing requirements so that he could say he truly earned it? Heck we had one Scout this summer "earn" Swimming MB. The SM decided not to submit it on an advancement report, or award him the MB, since there is no way he could have earned it: he is classified as a Beginner.

In my district, none of the LDS Scouts are continuing past Dec. 31st.

While it is not as bad as it could have been, I still have concerns. I hope Nstional does not pull this stunt next year, i.e. waiting until the last minute to announce the change. Hopefully the will announce e the 2021 price hike tonite.

One SE told his council to be prepared for up to $100.

Going from memory. Book had event descriptions which included an image, links and citations to help the scouts prepare, and how it would be scored. Each event had a page. Also had inspection sheets, registration info, and score cards. And short section on sheath knives. The addendum dealt with questions adults, and a few youth, had. To be honest, the adults were more of a challenge than the youth. The scouts wanted to know what the prizes were going to be for the cook off and Halloween costume contest at campfire. All the rest of the addendums were because of adults. Sadly a lot of what I consider common sense rules, i.e. no vehicles in campsites, no boating allowed except for the event, tomahawk throwing is a shooting sport with range rules in place, had to be in the book because of issues in last camporees. Apparently common sense ain't common any more.

I admit I and other adults ran the show. Goal was for the Scouts to compete and have fun. All the ideas for events came the previous camporee's SPL crackerbarrel. I did use the BSA's COMPLETE WILDERNESS TRAINING book by Hugh McManners for source material. As for the book, I admit it was 20 to 30 pages, plus 4 addendum answering questions various adult unit Scouters had. Edited. book had ideas, sources for additional info, and a section on sheath knives. As for knives, I got a Becker 21 kukri for Christmas and carried it that weekend.

HEHEHEHEHE. Last camporee I ran, sheath knives were REQUIRED for several events. It was a wilderness survival camporee. Talk about freaking people out. I had to put out an addendum stating sheath knives are allowed by BSA and state law. I even had to post links to BSA literature and Scoutstuff.org to prove it.

Have your SPL assign one of her Scouts to do research. there are a ton of scripts out there. Also there were some ideas int eh Troop Resources Book if memory serves.

True, but according to National, 2 registered adults over 21 must be present as it is now considered a troop activity.