Eagle94-A1

My understanding was that it was allowed for LDS units.

I once sat on the Vigil Committee in my role as chapter adviser. I remember one outstanding "youth" ( in quotation marks as he was a youth in the OA, and ASM with his troop) with about an 1.5" pile of nominations for him. Needless to say he got Vigil. On question, does the person nominating serve as Vigil sponsor? I ask because I have seen it where the nominee is the sponsor, presenting him as a candidate at the Vigil Call Out. 2/3 people I nominated I sponsored. the 3rd I let his dad sponsor him.

@ParkMan , Our DFS required DEs to camp at camporeed. Heck one guy just got out of the hospital and on light duties was told he better be at camporee or start looking for a new job. As for picking up supplies, yes that was an expected duty by the DFS. I vividly remember driving two hours round trip to drop off bb guns because the DFS was furious that I told someone they could pick them up whenever they could. I could go on, but I don't have the time. As you can see, different councils have different expectations.

SO.VERY.TRUE. A fellow pro told me the divorce rate is extremely high. One coworker was on wife #3 when I started, and was in the process of going through a divorce with her when I left. Another DE's wife stayed with him long enough to complete law school, and then filed for divorce as soon as she passed the bar. My own wife knew what she was getting into as we dated while I was a DE. She didn't realize the full physical, mental, and emotional stress the job causes until we got married and she moved in with me. After 6 weeks of marriage, she gave me an ultimatum: her or the job. And she could not understand why I continued to volunteer after I left, until our oldest got involved. She can handle the unit level, but anything on the district and council, forget about it.

Best wedding gift I got came from the volunteers: no calls between 10pm and 7am.

Director of Field Service. In some councils with more than 1 Field Director, they use a DFS. He is the #2 person in a council after the Scout Exec.

HOW COULD I FORGET ABOUT THE DOCUMENTATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I worked at one camp that was nearly shut down due to GI bug. Long story short, we had the council physician and others come in do a second health inspection. They could not find anything, and then checked the medical logs. They detesrmined that one troop had some sick that infected everyone at the camp. I found out 6 months later at Christmas it was my cousin's son who was sick and infected everyone. She sent him to camp anyway because they paid for it and they were not going to lose any money, 😠

I do not know about National, but it was the attitude my DFS had. I had a new, struggling unit that my church started. I didn't have an active commissioner corps to help them, so I did it myself. My DFS found out, and told me to stop.Would not hear of the reasons why I was helping: no commissioner, my church's pack, my men's club asked me to help, etc. Ditto with me going to OA meetings and events. Told me " You don't have time to play Indian." Here's the irony of that situation, me attending the Ordeal, doing cheerful service in the rain, and working with the ceremony team thoroughly impressed the Scouters from my district in attendance. That created a lot of good will, and broke some barriers. And it did it with not only the Arrowmen, but all the Scouters as word got around that "We have ourselves a REAL DE!"

I don't remember who it is, but someone on here did their entry level professional training at Schiff Scout Reservation back when national HQ was in NJ. Yep seeing the national HQ and CSE's office were big things for me too. What was coincidental was one of my council's camporee chiefs sent a letter and rope for the CSE tie into a square so that it could be awarded as a prize. The letter and rope were on his desk. I was told new DEs now have to do a lot of online modules prior to attending, and that the course is only a week now. We also go through DEs and have major vacancies. I was a DE 22 years ago. My immediate replacement lasted approx. 3 months. He didn't make it to PDL1. His replacement lasted about 2 years, had a nervous breakdown with the stress of the job, and left. There was no replacement for about a year. Since 2004, have had 2 dedicated DEs. The rest were either DE's having us as an additional district or DDs/FDs covering the vacant territory. We currently have not had a full time dedicated DE since 2010

Back in the day, Professional Development Level (PDL) 1 had to be done at the 3-4 month mark for 2 weeks. And some DEs didn't make it to that mark. At my PDL-1, one person had her resignation letter already typed and prepared to be submitted after she returned. As CareBear said the reason she was quitting was a lousy manager,and she felt she deserved a vacation putting up with the lousy manager. 12 to 16 months after PDL-1, was PDL-2 for a week. I know of 2 DEs compatriots went to it, the rest either quit or had it cancelled on them. Do not know of any coworkers going to PDL-3. We also went through 9 DEs and 2 midlevel managers in the 19 months I was a pro.

I was camp health officer for day camp and here are my thoughts. 1) Take the online training. 2) Make sure you have a copy of the Council Physician's Standing Orders. If the council won't give you a copy of them, WALK AWAY! Good friend of mine walked away as Day Camp Health officer because the council would not give him a copy because they said it only applied to summer camp, when it it now part of the NCAP standards. 3) Keep some gatorade or other electrolyte drink in the frig. As others have said, dehydration is common. IN fact at my day camp it was the #1 illness. 4) Follow those Standing Orders and your certification/licensing protocols TO THE LETTER! You don't want to put your career in jeopardy. 5) Make sure you are easily accessible in an emergency. We had one health officer on loan from the US Navy. Long story short, he would take off and go off roading in the primitive camp of teh reservation in the HMMWV. Nobody knew where he went off to, until he walked back to the main camp after after flipping the HMMWV

You forgot #4: Volunteer is replaced in their position by someone who will do the professional's will (Not only have I seen this, I was even encouraged to do this when I was a DE to have more compliant members of the district committee) #5: Pro, specifically SE, finds some reason revoke volunteers membership ( seen that happen twice, and it almost happened a third , all because the volunteers he did stand up to the professionals) As Desert pointed out, chairman have been usually figureheads who do the professional's bidding. Heck I was even told to look for malleable people of influence and affluence by my SE back when I was a DE. Personally I would rather have a loyal opposition who had the best interests of the Scouts as their #1 concern. I know when I was DE, there were indeed challenging meetings with disagreements. But everyone respected each other since we all shared #1 goal.

I am very glad to hear your council does things like it is suppose to do. Sadly not every SE does that. I can tell you in my some councils I have been in, pros will ignore volunteers in charge of activities, make additional demands, and even overruling volunteers who are in charge of events to the point that they take over. It has gotten to the point the point that some longtime volunteers no longer have anything to do with the council because of the professionals.

One parent was so made that the son was enlisting in the USAF that not only did they refuse to write the letter, but also kicked him out of the house. He was delayed entry, and spent his senior year living with the SM and his family. It was a mess.

As a former professional, and a district/council level volunteer in several councils...

When Venturing came out in August 1998, it was never about advancement, it had recognitions. Do the professionals at Nationalhave any experience in Venturing?

While I agree some salaries do need to be cut, I can tell you that I had former coworkers leave the profession, and double, and in one case triple, their salary based upon the DE experience alone. So we do need to be competitive to keep good professionals. But some of the salaries do seem outrageous.

Yes indeed. I remember one assistant manager who was trying to get a manager position in another store and used our manager as a reference. I happened to be in the next room when the manager received a call about the assistant manager, and the manager downplayed the performance of the assistant manager. Reality was the assistant manager was carrying the manager.

@TMSM, Sounds like you are really concerned about showing favoritism and/or interfering with your son. I was in that situation a few months ago. After my son presented his project to the Eagle board, and got it tentatively approved, I had a chance to speak with one of the board members who is a long time friend about my concern of interfering. He reminded me how I helped his son with his Eagle project back in the day, and simply said do the same things I would do for any other Scout. So if one of your Scouts came to you saying he was having challenges with the Eagle coordinator, how would you handle it for them?

Which committee are you referring to as different areas do different things: Troop Committee, or District Advancement Committee? Regarding the Troop Committee, first not every unit has an "Eagle Coordinator." So that is obviously not needed, BUT if he has one, I would use it. From what I have read on the position, they should be helpful. But again I have never been in a unit that had one. Second, the full committee doesn't need to approve the project, just the Benefiting Organization (BO), the SM, and the CC. So while the troop committee does not need to approve, I do think it is a good idea to talk to them and get their input IF possible. I'll why explain under District Committee. Third, I would NOT (emphasis) just send the proposal to the CC, or if the troop committee is involved them as well. I recommend setting up a meeting with the CC and/or TC to discuss the project, get ideas on improving the project, get ideas on challenges, etc. If changes need to be made, make them and get the project signed off. Regarding the District Advancement Committee, or as they call it in my locale 'The Eagle Board," once all the signatures I mentioned above are signed, it then needs District Advancement Chair (DAC) to sign off. The entire district advancement committee does not need to approve it, BUT I do recommend presenting it to them for several reasons. First, I know of two cases where the DAC either denied Eagle because he did not approve the service project or made it know that he was reluctantly accepting the project because it was approved by his predecessor, and he had no choice to accept it. How do you think those Scouts felt hearing this? I know I was ticked off, and wanted to know the appeal process because I did everything by the book, and the DAC that approved my project was on the EBOR, so there was no reason to deny it. And my friend was not to happy either. IF the entire committee sat in on the approval process, I do not believe the situation would have occurred. Second, the full committee will provide input that the Scout, and others they have talked to, may not have though about. I know when my son presented his project to the district advancement committee for the DAC's approval, they came up with concerns he and others did not think about that he and I both were glad they mentioned as two concerns would have cause serious issues had he proceed without being aware of the concerns. The delay in approval was only a week, and then it was just a matter the DAC signing off once the questions were answered. That one week saved a lot of money and several weeks of time. Agree with this 110% My son's project was at the hospital I work at. there were a few things I had to act as liaison for him.

My concerns with "Family Camping" or 'Family Scouting" is based upon what I saw first hand happen too many times over the years. But most significatly with my last troop that was turning every camp out and activity into a family camp out. The parents, two of which were "trained'" constantly kept interfering, would not let the PLs and SPL do their jobs, constantly allowing their sons to sneak out of the tents and/or shelters ( essentially abandoning their tentmate/buddy) and sleep with them, ad nauseum. When counseled and mentored on the problems they were causing, they ignored the SM and ASMs trying to work with them. Finally when corrected, they give ultimatums about leaving, which leaves the troop in a lurch at some activities, or leave altogether. Morale was getting lower and lower among the Scouts, as well as the experienced Scouters. My family left as the older two and I had enough, and I was not about to put the youngest through the hot mess that was the troop. The only thing that saved the troop was the COR getting involved and stating only trained SM and ASMs will be going on trips from now on and not families. COR was a little hesitant to get involved, but knew somehting had to be done to fix the problem or more Scouts and Scouters would have transferred. So I am not "Get over your attitudes ." As others have stated, Scouting is a YOUTH DEVELOPMENT ( emphasis, not shouting) program, and not a family program. Cub Scouts I don't have a problem with family camping, Heck my wife and I enjoyed it. But Scouts BSA, Sea Scouts, and Venturing is pure youth development, and parents and siblings tend to be a hindrance in that.

To paraphrase the late Princess Leia Organa Solo, The more National focuses on family camping, the more Scouts will slip through their fingers

I know of 1 situation where someone had a criminal investigation by law enforcement, and they could not find anything to substantiate the claim so no arrests were made. Many people who knew the "scout" had serious doubts about his story because he had a history of lying when he had been caught. And the person he accused caught him being a peeping tom after lights out in the women's shower area. I should know, he lied about me, saying I gave him permission to stay out after hours at a NOAC one year, when I was trying to bring him and the group he was with back to where they was suppose to be before they scattered to the wind. He was allowed to remain in Scouting and receive Eagle. She had her reputation ruined, and was permanently banned from the BSA. And Scouts in the district lost a phenominal Scouter.

The #1 solution is FOCUS ON YOUR SCOUTS! (emphasis ) I have been involved on district and council committees for a long time now, and I have burnt out. I had to deal with adult issues in a troop, and was slowly turning into an angry Scouter. The #1 thing that kept me going was MY SCOUTS. I could have a bad day at work, and MY SCOUTS would turn me around mentally. I could be dealing with problems, and wanting to skip the meeting, but MY SCOUTS would cheer me up and make me forget my problems for a while. Focus on who you can help directly< YOUR SCOUTS. Reminds me of one of the camp directors I worked for. Whenever a staffer came to him with something the staffer thought was major, he would ask, "Is anyone dead? No, then is anyone going to the hospital? No, then we don't have a problem, we got a challenge.

Once upon a time in Sea Scouts at least, there was a program for Sea Scouts who were not Boy Scouts to earn both Quartermaster and Eagle. In fact I have seen Eagle badges with the white and navy background for Sea Scouts to wear.