Eagle94-A1

I am old school. I remember when Scouts could sit on BORs (1972-1989, but I know of some troops that did it later than 1989). I also remember being able to sign off on advancement, especially the First Aid Skill Award since teaching it was a requirement for First Aid MB, and hence First Class Rank. So I do let select youth sign off until 1st Class. In my experience the Youth tend to do a better job of this than adults.

I wonder who will sue who over the term Rovers. I know BSA used it in the past, but I do not think they have legally defended the term, and thus may have given up rights as a result.

The GSUSA Promise and Law are similar, but different. Some of the differences include the following: Organization Model BSA uses the charter organization concept, think franchisees, whereas GSUSA owns each and every unit. As a result you get Scouts BSA units that are 25, 50, 100+ years old GSUSA units last until there is no longer enough folks left to be a troop, and have short histories, Philosophy BSA believes that "OUTING is three-fourth of ScOUTING," and in 2019 had 85% of its members camping at least once per year. GSUSA in 2019 was proud that 12-15% of its membership camps at least once a year. More later

Campfire. If memory serves, Campfire Girls, now Campfire was the official female counterpart to BSA, started by a bunch of the same folks.

Council service team 15 posted the information on FB. Someone posted on my district's FB page. It is now deleted. I wonder if council told him to take it down.

I Tell me about it. I had a DFS attempt to humiliate me by blaming me for something that he did at a staff meeting. I kept telling him let's talk about it after the staff meeting, because I didn't want to publicly embarrass him, like he was trying to do to me. After about 5 minutes and me calmly saying let's talk about it after the staff meeting. He stopped.. When I showed him the documentation that he screwed up and not me, he got angry, told me "fine" and never said anything else to me about the topic. As for repercussions for challenging SEs, most definitely. I know one volunteer who had their membership revoked. Yep he is in the IVF for questioning financial matters the SE was doing. Worse was he Pro I know. The pro found some financial irregularities, and it escalated to a criminal matter. For his efforts he was "promoted" from a Metro sized council to one of the smallest councils in the nation.

Way back when, my SE and DFS told me how to manipulate the nominating process to get "pro-council" volunteers on the district committee. They were big donors with no experience, except as a youth or parent, on Scouting. As for firing a SE by the executive board, in my time I have seen that happen once. And he ended up in another council. Sadly BSA has a history of moving folks around or promoting them.

@AirForceMom as @dk516shows, the 18+ folks not having social contact outside of Scouting is in the YPT rules, and expanded upon in the FAQs. I cannot tell you how many 18-20 year olds, including 2 of my sons, completely quit Scouting because they refuse to give up their under 18 friends. It really sucks for them, and I do not blame them at all.

So I have been involved in Scouting for over 40 years, and I have burnt out once before. At that time I was in multiple district roles, and serving as a CSDL. Getting rid of the district roles, and focusing on the DL role helped tremendously. But this past year has been different. The constant fee increases are one thing that is affecting me. Not only has the national fees gone up, but so have the council ones. To be honest I do not see the value in the fees. I see nothing of value from the national fee, As for the council fee, the council is almost useless. Only service I get from them is the office staff. Professional staff for a number of years have been useless, or worse causing problems. I have asked for help with recruiting so I could keep my unit, and other units in the district, alive instead of starting new units that drain resources, and was no, they will start new units. I have talked in other posts about problems with events and treatment of volunteers. So I honestly cannot see paying those fees, especially with some of the families. SO that is a downer. The other downer is the troop is dying. At one time, almost all of our Scouts came from other troops. We had a very active program. But with no school recruiting, we are down to 3 packs in the old district. The troops that have packs all have close relationships with their packs, as they should, and folks are staying with their COs. We are down to a handful of scouts. We have tried a bunch of different things, but have not gotten anyone. Heck we recruited more Scouts for the girls' troop than our own. As for the Scouts, most will age out in the next 1-2 years. One will quit as soon as he gets Eagle because even with financial aid the troop is giving, they cannot afford the program. All they pay is summer camp and monthly camping meals. everything else is paid for by the troop for them. Which is sad because the Scout loves the program, and we have had 4 Eagles in the past 4 years stay with the troop until aging out. So it has been depressing. We rechartered for this year, but if things do not improve, I do not think we will be around in 2025. I will take any positive feedback, anything at all. I need spirits lifted, and it ain't happening.

That, and they want income year round, not just in the fall round up season and at recharter time.

Sea Scout story reminds me of one an ASM told me of, and peaked my interest in Sea Scouts. His ship was located in Norfolk, VA. They did not have a designated vessel to use, so they went looking for one. They found a WWII PT boat in Bangor, Maine, but they had to work on it, get is USCG approved, and transport it back to Norfolk. They took the train to Maine, worked on it for a few weeks, spent a week getting approved, then steamed from Maine to Norfolk. I think all total it was 5 or 6 weeks spent getting the boat. Forgot to mention, none of the adults went with them, just the Sea Scouts. Yes, heavy traffic, especial US Navy in some areas.

You can only teach them if they are allowed, and they can only do it right if they are encouraged to do so. Sadly I have met too many Pros who have not cared how stuff is done as long as they meet goals. Does anyone remember the Greater Alabama Council anyone?

1. WELCOME TO DA FORUMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (and yes i am shouting at ya ) 2 Why the focus on advancement, will this be something done during classes? 3. DO SOMETHING FUN THAT THE SCOUTS WILL ENJOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (this time MAJOR emphasis) Summer camp is suppose to be fun, not school. Sadly too many camps are turning it into school. Do something fun and memorable that the Scouts will enjoy and want to come back for more. Do not worry about advancement. 4. Good luck. EDIT: I am an old school Scouter, in that I think the goal should be fun, not advancement. Sadly too many folks focus on advancement, including my Troop CC and Scouts. When I was a Cub Scout Day Camp PD, while most activities had some advancement element to is, not all of them. Kids had so much fun, that we doubled out numbers my second year. The year I stepped down, the camp focused on advancement again, and it was not fun for the Cubs. I came back as PD. During COVID, my troop did their own summer camp. While we did some advancement, the focus was on fun.Every one said it was the best summer camp ever, but the problem with it they said was only 2 MBs were able to be earned.

I had a friend accused of CSA and was placed in the IVF. However I cannot find her file among the ones released by a law firm a while back. I can verify that one had police intervention, and she was not prosecuted because evidence supported her , not the accuser.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (yes I am shouting my appreciation at you.) This topic really gets to me, and I want as much information as possible. I was fortunate, I was not a victim. However I could have been. My CM was later arrested for CSA. Something didn't seem right with him, and when he moved up to the troop with his son, he became SM, and I was not comfortable and switched. I found out several years later he was in jail. I also had to report/help incidents twice.

Serious question, can you show me the source where you got that? I ask because the research I've done showed that the first mandatory reporter laws were for physicians only, and started in late 1960s. CA was the first state to enact these laws, and gradually they expanded who was a mandatory reporter, and the idea spread to other states. The next group was nurses, then other healthcare providers. Teachers started to be come mandatory reports in the late 1970s/early 1980s (again CA started it if memory serves) and that too expanded to other states over time. Youth group volunteers started in the late 1980s, and some states didn't make youth group volunteers mandatory reporters, with libel and slander protections if the accusation was false, until the late 1990s/early 2000s.

When I did research on this topic a long time ago, the rationale for reporting to the SE, and not directly to authorities, was that different jurisdictions had different definitions of mandatory reporters. Unless you caught them in the act, if you reported an incident, and it was false, you would be held liable and face possible civil litigation. Different states have different laws, and laws change over time. If you read some of the files, there are notations that victim's parents did not want their child to relive the horror in court. So there was no prosecution. As for defamation, and proof, if the victims are unwilling to testify, it makes things difficult to prosecute. Also there are times when allegations have been proven false. I know of one such case in BSA. Duke Lacrosse team also comes to mind. And it wasn't until the mid-late 1990s, that youth volunteers got mandatory reporter protections if memory serves.

And there a families that do not do sports for just that reason as well. As for putting it on plastic, again you have families that if it is a choice between $150 worth of food, or paying for a program your child may not be interested in after 1-2 months, food wins. One reason I liked prorated fees, it gave families time to get money together. And sometimes packs could help out, but that was when the fees were sub $35. $150 is a lot for some units. But not every one. Some councils are not breaking even, and others barely. As for savings plans, that helps long term, but not the immediate registration question of coming up with all the fees, sometimes over $150. Best example I comes from when I was a Scout. I crossed over in May, and was told to If I wanted to go to summer camp in 6 weeks, I needed to come up with $75 (about $214 today) get as physical, etc. And there was no way my family could come up with that fee. But I agree budgeting is the way to go. I did just that, plus fundraising, to be able to go on trips. Once a campership was also given. But again budgeting is not the problem it is the high initial cost.

Sorry you are wrong. Cost is indeed a major factor in membership loss, especially since national no longer prorates fees to the unit recharter time. The prorated fees allowed folks to try out the program for a 1-4 month period to see if you liked the program and would remain. Asking for $105 national registration and joining fee, PLUS whatever additional fees your council added PLUS unit fees, scares off families real fast. Some council that is over $150. And that doesn't cover uniforms and activities. THEN poor program, and lack of leaders takes effect. I do agree that poor recruitment, specifically the inability to conduct round ups, and poor community relationships, i.e. the professionals have no clue who the superintendent is and other community leaders who could get you in the schools, is a problem.

Yes she knew what happened to them. Some got lost in moving HQ locations. The bulk thrown away when the storage unit they were in had water damage. I knew about the lost records as it happened before my time. The water damaged ones happened while I was gone. My council is now using records laws to keep stuff the legally required time. Then it is destroyed. I am told a lot of councils have been doing this

One SE told us how to manipulate the nominating process to get the folks who are "friendly" to council on committees and boards. So I wouldn't be suprised. That happened in my council. Local camp was sold. They said the reason was that it was costing almost $70/ camper to maintain. When volunteers looked at the raw data, they noticed the data was manipulated to show a loss. They included capital expenses, and forgot to note the camp was closed for 7 months as a result. taking out the capital expense made it $11/ Camper. But it would have been less because of the 7 months of weekend camp outs, district and council events, etc not taking place. They also conveniently forgot to include the previous 3 years data, which showed the camp was actually a money maker supporting the primary camp. However the amount it raised did not compare to the amount they sold it for.

Here's the deal, and I am not trying to be a negative Nelly here. As a former pro, I know what the job entails, and appreciate the good DEs. What do I mean by good DEs, I mean, and in no particular order. 1. They listen to volunteers. 2. They are more focused on The Movement in general, than FOS. 3. They appreciate the volunteers. 4. They are courteous towards the volunteers. I give every new Pro the benefit of the doubt when they come aboard. I have even talked to them about situations and challenges they will be facing when they work with volunteers. For the past 10+ years, it seems to go in one ear and out the other. Kind of hard to appreciate and respect the pros when they do not appreciate and respect the volunteers.

Back in the day when it was under $30K, buddy of mine calculated how much we averaged an hour, and that is not considering summer camp. It was under $3/hour. As for vacation, what's that? Seriously for the 16 months, I had 1 day off, besides holidays. And I only got that day off because when I showed up to summer camp, there were too many staffers. So those of us not needed were sent home AFTER we showed up on Sunday. It would have been nice if they told us Friday afternoon, or even Saturday morning before we left. Since I had no plans for Monday, and the girlfriend was off on Mondays, we went to the beach and had a great time.

It wasn't just DEs that were insulting, but also FDs, DFSs, and one SE. And what really ticked me off about the SE was that the only reason the event he did this at was a success was the hard work and dedication of one volunteer, who also contributed his treasure knowing Council would not reimburse him, that he ignored. While I have seen a few Pros that care, most of them lately seem to be recent college grads and want a job. At least in my neck of the woods. As for treating volunteers with respect and thanking them, that is a must. When I was a DE, there were times that the volunteers disagreed with what I was doing. Heck there were times that I agreed with them, but was being forced to do what was being done. But because I treated them with respect, explained why things were happening, and thanked them for the work, like yours, mine would move mountains to help me. But more importantly, if you show that you care about the Scouts, and wanting them to have a good experience, the volunteers will respect you. I knew a brand new DE who showed up to his first district event, a Pinewood Derby. Now this DE hated PWDs, because he had a very negative experience with them as a Cub. There was a single mom and her Cub who showed up way to late for him to compete. There were issues with the car, so mom left and spent time and money getting them fixed. But by the time they got back, the district was about to do the final race to determine the overall champ. Only thing left after that was the Leaders' Division. Scout was visibly upset he would not be allowed to race, and mom was too. The DE stepped in, said he didn't have a car to race in the Leaders' Division, and could he borrow the Cubs, When the Cub said yes and was handing it to him, the DE said to go ahead and get it inspected for him. Then when the adults started bringing their cars to the track, the DE asked the Cub bring it for him. The DE knew how it felt to be in that Cub's place, and didn't want the Cub to have a bad experience. Word got around that the DE was in it for the Scouts. While there was some disagreements with folks, sometimes even heated one, there was still respect between everyone. So I guess I want Pros who are in it to improve Scouts' lives, and not just collect a paycheck.

CANNOT. EMPHASIZE. THIS. ENOUGH! (Caps, bold, etc for major emphasis). I t is sad when you ask for help, and the professionals won't help you. Concur, although the last one will be the hardest. Sadly most pros are clueless on programs, and the National literature on Patrol Method has been seriously watered down. My additions. -Respect for volunteers. Volunteers are what make the program happen at all levels: units, district, council, section, and national. I have seen DEs ignore, insult, yell at, and curse out volunteers. I've commented on my treatment by pros on other posts. I have had friends resign from district positions, including district chair and commissioner, over their treatment. One new DE with no prior Scouting experience and only 6 months as a pro, attempted to publicly humiliate one long time Scouter at a district meeting. She got so angry she responded, " I've forgotten more about Scouting than you've ever learned, and I still know more than you!" -Focus on program, not money. Yes money is important. But need a program that is worth investing in. At least in my council of late, there is no worthy council programs. The local summer camp is being negatively talked about on social media because of issues last year. And to be honest they have had issues for a very long time. Very few people, usually the military folks who are moving into the council from another, are willing to spend the time and treasure to run programs. When I ran district activities, I was put in charge at the last minute, ignored when it came scheduling a third event at the location at the last minute, did not have my supplies ordered or in insufficient quantities (you always over estimate you patches!) If you build a program, they will come. If you have a good program, people will support it. More later.