Eagle94-A1

I see the BSA is still lying about Dodgeball stating it "has never been an authorized activity in Scouting" despite showing showing a national representative proof it has been an authorized activity and requesting they change the wording multiple times. In case you don't believe the BSA is lying about this, here is an image from page 30 of the 2010 printing of the 1998 edition of the Scoutmaster Handbook.

I would add high school kids being treated as elementary school kids. And college kids, and some college grads, being treated like the are in middle school kids. I cannot tell you how many high school and college students' parents contacted me about the hospital's job shadowing program. I'm now at a college, and I saw many parents attend advising and registration sessions with their child. I too, don't like it.

Why am I not surprised. And with the large number of layoffs, I bet it won't be considered retaliation. Like I said the good pros either leave, get sidelined to obscure positions, or they get fired. It would have been much, much, much worse. There would have been no input from the membership and volunteers. National would have done whatever they wanted, and there would be nothing we could do because it would be a done deal. IMHO that former professional helped Scouting , and not hurt it, by leaking the info.

@dkurtenbach BRAVO! I could not say it any better. @skeptic, where to begin. You are correct, we do NOT have all the facts and peripherals. BSA has a long history of no tranparency, from the council level all the way up. And their lack of communication to the rank and file adds to the fire. I do know how some pros work, and I can see pros at national trying to buck Mosby. Thankfully Mosby has all the power. And I do hope he wields it judiciously. I have seen SEs remove "troublemaking" volunteers, both from positions on the district and council levels, because they have questions and concerns about the program. In one instance, one longtime volutneer was placed int he Ineligible Volunteer Files not related to any wrongdoing., but for questioning financial discrepancies .As for the problems I see and are concerned about, I will keep harping on them to keep them at the forefront. From all the language in the document, it is only a stay of execution, not a pardon. Some people are thinking it's a victory, when it is not. But I do hope and pray you are correct. @MattR good question. it's because I hope for the best, but am expecting the worse.The situation is like seeing your best friend spiraling out of control because of a drug addiction. You try to do everything to help them out, but it keeps getting worse and worse. I hope and pray that this bankruptcy will be like rehab, gets National clean and sober so they can get on and provide what is needed for our youth. Plus I got my sons and my Scouts to worry about.

Skeptic, Do you honestly believe the National? They have a history of saying one thing, and doing the exact opposite. They have a history of doing polls, and then ignoring them if they posted the results, or never posting the results of the poll. Even the document said it is still an option, just at a later date. Note the bold The NEC also agreed that the following three recommendations will not be considered at this time: Combining Sea Scouting into Exploring, Ending all youth programs at the age of 18, and Sunsetting the Learning for Life curriculum Although we are not moving forward with these recommendations, we will continue the dialog that prompted the recommendations to ensure that we continue to benefit as a Movement from the evaluation and analysis conducted by the Churchill teams that studied those areas. So those of us who have are involved with, or have fond memories of our time in Sea Scouting, OA, and Venturing still see the risk. I think they are "punting" because the leaked Churchill slide caused a major protest of the rank and file. I think National hopes this protest of the Churchill document either A) dies down so they can enact it, or B) try to say it is being forced upon them because of the bankruptcy. Either way the decision has been made, they are just waiting to implement it. I wish I was as optimistic.

For now. BSA does not have a good track record IMHO of following through on their promises.

In the lodge growing up, we had Houma as members. The only time they had a problem with the OA was when one chapter started doing some crazy stuff at powwows. The Houma asked the lodge to handle it, and we did. He reciprocated their help over the years. We had members do research for their appeal for federal recognition. Other former members helped on the cultural side. Long story short, the Jesuits did a good job converting them to Christianity. Current lodge has an excellent relationship with local tribes. In fact one of the local drums on the powwow circuit was formed at an OA event at the main camp.

Yes, we know that there is no current test out option for these courses. But just like BSA approved Dodgeball as a game for Scouts to play, at one time BSA did allow test outs IOLS. It was in the syllabus, and there was a form that had to be filled out.

I admit I got some mixed emotions on this. Grant you the research on this topic I did was over 20 years ago, and more information is now available than when I did it. But here is what I found. Yes some professionals really did screw up and not follow National policy of the day. They did allow folks to continue in the movement when they should have been removed. That is inexcusable. THEY are the ones who failed our Scouts. And yes the BSA did not report a large number of abusers to authorities. However this was a time before mandatory reporting laws were on the books. If the child's parents decided they were not going to press charges, and in the cases I studied it was the majority of cases, then there was nothing the BSA could do legally. If I remember correctly, one concern about pressing charges without the abused's testimony, was the BSA being sued for libel. What BSA could, and did, do was create an Ineligible Volunteer File to cross-reference new volunteer applications against in an attempt to keep out those suspected of abusing Scouts. Even when mandatory reporting laws went into effect, there were limits as tho who were mandatory reporters. Initially it was physicians and other medical personnel, and over decades has expanded. Also each state enacted their own laws. So in some states BSA employees were mandatory reporters before BSA employees in other states. Do not think I am callous towards the victims. I have had friends and neighbors who were victims. And knowing what I know now, I was being groomed by my Cubmaster/Scoutsmaster. I lucked out. When something set off my senses, I switched troops. But I know folks who were abused by him. This was before BSA implemented YP and 2 Deep.

This part gets to me: Blaise, an author and an illustrator who lives in Arkansas, called out the organization In a blog post on Medium last year for allowing white people to imitate Native Americans. “Who asked the BSA to ‘preserve’ Native American traditions, and why can’t Native peoples do that for themselves?” she wrote. “Dancing, donning Native regalia, or utilizing sacred symbols (like Eagle feathers or sacred pipes) are not things that should be divorced from their particular tribal reality and religious meaning.” She obviously does not know the history BSA, OA, and I assume Mic-O-Say, have had. Long story short, when the OA and Mic-O-Say were created, it was illegal for Native Americans to practice their religion and culture. They either went underground, or used the OA as a means of preserving. More on this later

An aspect of NCAP is "branding," National wants all camps to have identical structures. Buildings are predesigned in that there are a limited number of designs you can choose some. So a camp in Maine will look identical to a camp in Louisiana, even if the two camps have different environments and different structure styles would work better in that camp's particular environment. And if a national design will not work at a camp due to local regulations, too bad, it won't be built.

I admit I am very pessimistic. A lot of what is occurring has been predicted here and elsewhere. And COVID doesn't help matters. As much as I would love all three of my sons to make Eagle, I don't know if the youngest will due to everything going on. Oldest will have his ECOH this month, COVID and Weather permitting, And Middle Son is Life. His goal is to get it by the end of next summer. But youngest has not been in long, and is Second Class. And I don't push advancement. I push the skills and self confidence. So even if the BSA ceases to exist, I know my boys have benefited. Plus there are other "Scouting" organizations out there, just not recognized by WOSM.

Could some of the skyrocketing costs be due to NCAP standards trying to make every camp identical and "branded?" We have a camp that needs a bathhouse. Under local codes, no problem to build, got the volunteer manpower to do it, and can get the donations to build it. Told we could not build it because it did not meet NCAP standards. Building a bathhouse to those standards up the cost 4x. We had shelters destroyed in a hurricane. We wanted to build ones that match the 70+ year old ones still in use. Those meet local codes. We cannot build them because they do not meet NCAP standards. The NCAP ones are significantly larger, and designed for summer camps

My comments about showers and water come from the stupidity of the decision. When this was first noted PRIOR TO CONSTUCTION (emphasis) people commented that there were ecologically friendly ways to get be hot water. From painting water tanks green to absorb sunlight and heat up water, to solar heaters, to some others I can't remember. Instead of using these methods during the building process,they now have to pay more to fix the issues.

We also gave WeLOT certification for those doing ITOLS. The two courses were so similar , some actually posted a combined syllabus.

At one time, a test out option was allowed by national. It was for a very brief time. I want to say it was a 2 to 3 year time period when it was allowed. If I remember correctly, that looks like the form National came up with to test out of IOLS. Let me see if I have the old syllabus that allowed it at home. I had a bunch of SMs who had the Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities through their time as youth and young adults, but never did the training. I used folks like that on staff. For example, the geocacher extraordinaire who went to Philmont 2 times, did the orienteering, geocaching, and backpacking stuff. My 3 beader who was "untrained" in his current position because he never took ITOLS, went over the cooking and basic camping info. My 1 time Philmont treker who was a combat medic, yep he taught First Aid. Use your resources.

My apologies. The similarities in names got to me. As for meeting with MBCs virtually, one of the many reasons I dislike it is that the lack of personal contact. Local MBCs know the community, and can help guide the Scouts. Having an MBC in Hawaii working with a Maine Scout does not know the community the Scout is living in, and cannot help much. And I do stand by my comment, even in these unprecedented times. This is a great opportunity for the Scout to get out of their comfort zone, think outside the box, and learn to do things on their own. The more I work with high school and college age students, the more I am seeing a complete dependence on parents and other adults to tell them what to do. They cannot think for themselves. I'm seeing it now with the number of students registering for classes who have parents with them, and the parents are the ones picking classes.

The sash was a symbol of being a Voyager, the French Canadians who explored and traded in the area. Noc Bay has them in stock http://www.nocbay.com/prodDetails.asp?ID=289&link=222 and http://www.nocbay.com/prodDetails.asp?ID=983&link=222 if you know what to look for, ebay can be your friend. i a complete sash and garters set for the price of a sash once.

#1 complaint for my troop when they did summer camp at a local camp was the "ambient temperature." I know the first NSJ there, they could not keep the solar showers in stock.

What about the showers, are they still "ambient temperature?"

@Momleader, Please let your Scout come up with ideas on their own based upon the requirements in the MB. The more you try and "help," the more opportunities you take away. This is an opportunity for your Scout to do research, and come up with ideas, thinking outside of the box if needed. If you give them ideas for the project you are taking away the opportunity for them to think on their own. If your Scout is having challenges, then the MBC is the one who should be asked, and by the Scout.

I would talk to as many of the troop 's key three as possible, get a consensus on concerns, and get ir documented NOW. When the time comes for the EBOR, if it is unit based, make sure they get a council rep from outside the district. If the EBOR is district based, get the council to approve an unbiased board. I would also have your son know the EBOR section of the GTA prior to the EBOR so that if something happens, A. he knows the full appeals process B. He knows what to expect, and C. He can respectfully tell then that based on the improper way the EBOR, he will be appealing their decision. Something similar happened to me. The district advancement chairman was going to deny me my Eagle because he did not approve my project and the project's paperwork was out of date at the time of the EBOR. I told him the decision was bogus. The DAC at the time I sought approval, who was on my EBOR, approved the project, so it did not matter whether he approved it or not, it was a done deal. I also stated that the paperwork submitted with the application was the current paperwork at the time, and it needed to be accepted. Then I asked him about an appeals process since i did in fact meet all the requirements, used the current paperwork at the time of my project, and told him I was not accepting his decision because it was wrong. I was asked to step out a 2nd time, and from body language and tone, he reluctantly approved, to the delight of myself and the other EBOR members.

But it will probably end up with Scouts doing this...

I know my council has been in contact with them to see what they did.