Eagle94-A1

Please keep the ideas coming! @MattRHaving adults from different counties of the new district is the game plan. Planning on having a cracker barrel for the adults, and I hope this helps. @Eagledad, That was once a tradition in the old district, and had to be abandoned because of the new NCAP accreditation standards. Even though we have been a unified district since January of 2020, at the council camporee this year we stayed in our old areas. The area my old district was at had a potluck where every unit from the old district brought food. It was believed that would be OK per NCAP. When I suggested that for the district camporee, I was told, "NO!" Apparently the guy who organized the potluck, who is also helping to organize the district camporee, got in a bit of trouble over the potluck. As it is, the cooking contest raised concerns. Apparently one of the former districts used the cooking contest as their district wide dinner. And they got into trouble over that. We had to make sure we have adult judges sampling the food, and not Scouts. In the past the OA members in the camporee trading post would serve as judges as a way of saying thank you for working the weekend. Again please keep ideas coming for I want to unify this district. And I will post more details about council/district faldercarb in the appropriate thread.

Need some brainstorming ideas that were not covered last night due to lack of time. What are some ways to encourage district unity among the Scouts, and more importantly, among the adults? Long backstory short, the new district is comprised of three old districts. 2 of those districts have some deep-seated rivalry/hatred from before I got here. that I cannot understand. At one point neither district wanted to work with the other, and when we had to share a DE, it was from another district that is actually further away. The third district does their own thing and could care less about the council. They are the furthest away from the council office, in one of the poorest and most rural areas in the nation, and have always been treated as a redheaded stepchild. When they got DEs, they didn't last long and were always looking to leave. So they have received very poor service from the council. This district camporee will be the first full district event since the merger on January 1, 2020. Because of COVID, we have no true district committee, just the previous three district committee carrying on until the new district gets organized. And with no DE and Chairman to help organize the new district, it has been a challenge. So I need to come up with ways to promote unity. We are off to a shaky start. Last nite's meeting only had Scouts from 1 old district represented. Adults from 2 of the old districts were there. Due to logistics, we will have multiple troops in campsites. I already know that troops from the different old districts will be sharing campsites. Another long story short, for a long time the council did not take care of this camp and individual troops had to make repairs, pay for improvements (i.e. waterlines and spigots, pavilions, fire rings, etc). So each troop is protective of "their campsite." But what are some other ways to promote unity?

With the lawsuit news and everything going on with my council and district, I am depressed. When the opportunity arose to work on district camporee, I jumped at it with the hopes It would cheer me up. Me and the other two folks working on the camporee agreed to invite the SPLs and any PLC members to attend the Roundtable to get input from them on camporee. 3 Scouts from 2 units showed up. I admit, I was hoping for more to attend, especially since one of the Scouts was my son, and I have been bouncing ideas off of him from the get go. But I think it went well, and the Scouts will be pleased.

CONGRATULATIONS!

Yes. I know a council who had a volunteer who worked on creating business webpages create theirs and the OA lodge's webpages. They were outstanding, easy to navigate, fantastic resources. When National mandated everyone using a standard format, he was told to buzz off when he offered to help with some of the work. I deal with search engines all day. Andy by far BSA's search engine is horrible. It is easier, faster, and more accurate to use Google than BSA's search engine. Thankfully my troop has not made the migration from Troopmaster to Scoutbook. It works. I have heard of so many issues with Scoutbook, I am afraid to use it. Plus BSA owns it now. I am still waiting for BSA National to keep their SCOUTNET 2000 promises they made in 1998.

Yes you can make a donation in his name. We had one gentleman who did not want to be recognized for his very generous donation. Instead, every single Eagle Scout the year he donated the money, plus the non-professional office staff ( registrar, bookkeeper, scout shop clerk, and office manager) became West Fellows. That is a good question. My understanding is that the endowments are restricted funds, and cannot be touched. Only the interest earned can be touched. But I also remember BSA stating they would protect Charter Organizations in lawsuits too, and we see how that is going with the Toggle Plan proposal.

Regarding unit commissioners, I have encountered a few, and was one. It is a thankless job. The troop I was assigned to went through 3 commissioners before me. 2 of them were ASMs with the troop prior to the SM at the time taking over, when the troop was extremely successful. Long story short, SM knew better and they left. I took over as UC trying to help save the troop. When a troop goes from 3 patrols that are youth lead, to a one patrol troop with the SM appointed leaders to focus on advancement, you got problems. No amount of trying to coaching helped. I was told, I don't know what I am talking about, Scouting needs to change with the times, and appointing leaders gives everyone a chance because the same clique keeps getting elected. So it is a two way streak with commissioners. Yes we need commissioners, but we also need to follow their advice when we are having issues. Best commissioner I ever had was a a 50+year Scouting veteran. If he didn't know the answers (which was rare), he knew where to get them. Active with the three units he was assigned to, and I miss that guy to this day.

I need to revisit this because this has me irked so much. When I was a DE, we had one pack that had a history of losing new members before recharter, The pack was almost dead, with 5 Cubs, and I got 40+ new Cubs for them during the round up. When recharter came, they only had 8-10 rechartering. I attempted to talk to the parents of every Cub who dropped out. A lot did not return my calls or want to talk to me. Of the ones I did talk to, some were willing to try another pack. The issue was the CM, her DL husband. They were rude, obnoxious, and were running everyone away with their behavior. And there was not a thing the council could do about it. My boss and I met with the IH/COR about the problem. We told them the issue, what was happening, and how we could not do anything about it because it was his unit. He did not want to get involved. So how can teh council come in and dismiss Scouters from their roles?

THIS. IS. HORRIBLE! Regarding ""65% of Scouts BSA members will advance one rank during the Scouting year," you want to lose Scouts, turn it into school. The troop I am in is focused on FUN, not advancement. We have an 18y.o. Eagle ASM and 17y.o. Eagle still active because they have fun. We recruit via word of mouth because we focus on FUN. Best compliment came from Scouts from another troop. They said we are the "sweatiest," current slang for best I am told, in the district. But here is the deal, WE. FOCUS. ON. FUN! As Baden-Powell said, " Advancement should come as naturally as a suntan, it just happens in the outdoors." You focus on FUN the rest will fall into play. Regarding, "Participate in Friends of Scouting through the Governor’s Luncheon or a family presentation," What benefit is the unit getting? I will tell you why FOS is nearly non-existent in my new district, WE GET NO SUPPORT FROM THE COUNCIL! Pre-merging 3 districts, we had not had a DE for at least 8 years. We had to share one. And the last one was so rude and obnoxious, he caused a lot longtime volunteers to back out either from their district roles, or Scouting all together. As on now we have 1 DE covering all 3 districts, which covers a territory of 20 counties. Regarding "Use the Ideal Year of Scouting (IYOS) program plan and submit Troop calendar to the District by June 30" why is the district getting involved in a unit's calendar? Is council/national going to get the info we need, fee increases comes immediately to mind, in may so units have enough time to plan the IYOS? Will district/council's calendars be available in May so that units can plan? And what is next, mandatory attendance at events? Finally regarding this "If improvement is not made, the commissioner team, in partnership with their District Executive, will work with the chartering organization to identify the barriers to success, which may include the selection of new unit Key 3 leadership that are committed to addressing the metrics to ensure the Promise to Parents is delivered to families, What gave the Council the right to interfere with a Charter Organization's appointments? If the council wants to change leadership, I hope they plan on losing not only experienced Scouters who know the metrics are a bunch of hogwash, but also units that will not deal with the hogwash.

The pack my family was with went year round, but we did only 2 meetings/month plus Cub Scout Day Camp. Pack I grew up in was only during the school year. Now every troop I have been involved with has met year round. Summer usually had some extra time since we had light longer and we didn't have school. When I moved to NC, I met my first troop that only met during the school year, except for summer camp, and it blew my mind. From reading posts here and elsewhere, there are a lot of troop that do not meet during the summer.

WOW! How can anyone learn about what is going on if they are editing and censuring it? Agree, we got some good mods. they allow dissent, and only shut down things when things need to either cool down, or a new thread is needed.

Isn't his commentary contempt of court?

I am assuming it's possible because BSA and councils can make several payments into the CSA fund over several years.

I don't know how my LC came up with the figure, but they did. And at the moment that figure is not being released. The council is looking to sell properties to come up with the money. some are worthless, i.e. property that has no road access and is split down the middle by the interstate, as well as the camps.. Anyone know what a B+ property is valued at?

I don't know what is going on. But I heard a figure my council needs to contribute the bankruptcy. Have no Idea how they came up with it. I do know at a meeting in the fall, selling property was discussed. And the camp had some visitors that looked like "suits."

1. WELCOME TO DA FORUMS! 2. I am going to respond section by section to your OP. Several troops I have been in over the years have limited the involvement of TRAINED CUB SCOUT LEADERS until they they become TRAINED BOY SCOUT/SCOUTS BSA SCOUTERS (caps for emphasis). And the full training can take that long to complete and be fully absorbed. I can tell you that it is not to retain control, rather it is for the new adults to be understand and see the Scouts BSA program and how it truly works. If you look at my posts from about 2017 to 2018, you can read about what enthusiastic, but UNTRAINED BOY SCOUT/SCOUTS BSA SCOUTERS (again emphasis), can slowly destroy a Scout program by trying to continue as if Scouts BSA is just older Cub Scouts. My sons and I had to leave the troop because these enthusiastic and untrained adults were interfering, contradicting Scouts in charge, etc. It got to the point that the leaders in the troop, the Scouts, were walking away from their jobs in disgust. And whenever the SM and ASMs tried to talk to them, mentor them, etc we were ignored, threatened with leaving the activity if they didn't get their way ( which would have caused major transportation problems), etc. The COR had to intervene because we left, and the Scouts started complaining about the adults at the BORs. And even trained adults and those knowing better sometimes need "Cub Scout Leader deprogramming." One of the adults above was "trained" doing the online training and ITOLS. Yet he was still stuck in Cub Scout Mode. As I Scout, I HATED (emphasis) Cross Over time, because we would have a bunch of new adults interfering until the SM and ASMs got them out of our hair. Guess what happened when I Crossed Over with my oldest? Yep I needed some reminders that I was doing exactly what I hated back in the day. So the troop may have had a very good reason for wanting that 1 year break. Sad to see the split happen. But I can understand folks wanting to go where they are comfortable at with people they know. And yes, the CO is the ultimate selector of leaders. While the troop didn't market to the pack, did the pack ask for help from the troop? I saw the same situation happen many times over the years. Sometimes the troop does not market to the pack, but does the pack ask the troop for stuff, i.e. Den Chiefs, Blue and Golds, camp outs for the Webelos, etc? If the troop ignored the requests, I can see where recruitment fell. But it is a two way streak. Understandable. Yes the money belongs to the CO, not the individual Scouts and leaders. Glad you want to have integrity. It does not matter where the money came from, it only matters that it belongs to the pack you are leaving. As a former professional, I can tell you that this is a CO internal matter, and they WILL NOT ( emphasis) get involved UNLESS SOMETHING CRIMINAL HAPPENS ( emphasis) and then I they will side with the CO because the CO owns the money. Sadly that is their legal right. And I can tell you, if you do not hand over the account information, that can lead to some criminal charges. The CO owns the pack, so they are exercising their rights of control. So they are not bullying. As for council, their hands are tied. This is an internal Charter Organization matter that the CO needs to resolves. Once something criminal happens, like the refusal to turn over funds, then the Council will get involved. But from the looks of things the council, as well as the law, will be on the CO's side. Unfortunately I would let if go. I know it is hard, I had to walk away from money when my boys and I left. But the peace of mind will be worth it. DO NOT DO THIS! This is illegal. You have been asked to turn over the bank account information and have refused so far. The CO can press charges as it is, report you to the council for embezzlement if I am not mistaken, and have you removed from Scouting altogether as it is. Dispersing funds that you no longer have any legal right to will make matters worse, much worse. I know it is tough. I know you will be second guessing yourself. I know you will miss the friends who remain with the old pack. I know leaving money behind will be a heavy burden financially. BUT YOU NEED TO THINK ABOUT WHAT IS BEST FOR YOUR CHILDREN! Leaving a toxic situation like the one you are describing will be the hardest, but best thing you can do. Trust me no matter how much you try to hide the toxicity, they know it is there and it is affecting them whether you see it or not. The best thing you can do is turn over the back account access, forget about the money, and make that new pack the best pack in town for your kids.

When have I belittled you and diminished what you went through? While I may not have had to deal with the trauma you had, I have dealt with this issue, and yes I have had some mental/emotional issues. Two friends were abused by the SM of the first troop I was in. At the time something didn't seem right, now I know what it was, grooming. I left before anything could happen, but my friends were his next targets. I understand why you didn't report it, because I didn't either. But when I found out what happened after I left, I wish did. I had to report one of the other adults in a unit I was serving in. This was a friend, someone I trusted, It was not easy reporting it. But it was done. It was not pretty, it caused issues, but I would do it again in a heart beat. But the one that really screwed me up dealt with Cub Scouts. One of the adults was abusing Cub Scouts while at camp. Other staffers and I had to deal with 20-30 emotionally spent Cub Scouts late at night while law enforcement had to deal with the perp and the two victims he had hostage. That was a night was a nightmare. And I did see a counselor about that night. So while I may not have been abused, I have had to deal with issues, and they have taken their toll. It's one reason why I am so protective of my Scouts. And @mrjohns2 has stated, I was one of those volunteers that made it my life's work. I was physically and emotionally abused by my father. Best thing he ever did for me was walk away. The Scouters in the second troop I was in became the role models and mentors. My SM was the father figure in my life, and I was so glad I was able to reconnect with him before he passed away. There was no way I could ever repay him and the others for everything they did for me, except give back to the program. I have missed anniversaries to take care of my Scouts. I am sacrificing the limited vacation I have with the new company to make sure my Scouts have a summer camp experience this year. I have put blood, sweat, tears, and treasure to provide opportunities to kids like me. And I am frustrated by the situation. I am frustrated that the ones who need to be held accountable, the perps who abused you and the rest are not being held accountable and justice is being denied. I am frustrated that all the good the organization has done, the countless service Scouts have done over the years, is being forgotten because of the the few who abused you and the other victims. I am frustrated that camps I have worked at, spending untold hours doing maintenance and upkeep so the Scouts could have a place to camp, are now will be for sale and will not be enjoyed by future generations of Scouts. I am frustrated that National and the local councils are screwing around with you and the other victims because it is hurting the program. I am tired of the lawyers stating they want the complete dissolution of the BSA. So yes, I too am going through hell. I am sorry you were abused, and this is reigniting old memories. Yes you are going through hell. But seeing something you love being slowly destroyed is also hell. And if you cannot see that, then we have nothing further to discuss.

It's also hell for those of use who are boots on the ground who have given years of our lives to the organization and have done our utmost to make it better.

At least with parents I have been encountering of late, no it won't help. One of the adults interfering was "trained." He did the online SM Specific and ITOLS at summer camp. Still let his child shirk his duties, still jumped in and taught classes and/or do stuff for his child, still allowed his child to leave his buddy and sneak into his tent. And the person telling me the 411 Committee member was not only trained, but a 3 beader to boot. Edited: I really dislike online learning because it does not allow for questions and answers, not does it discussion.

"Family scouting" is NOT Scouting. I have experienced this scenario with a 'family friendly" troop. There will be parents who refuse to let their Scouts grow, they will interfere and they will ignore anyone inside, and especially outside, of the groups. This is a sore subject with me as 'family scouting" was affecting my two older sons and was ruining their experience, and almost destroyed the troop they left. And upon reflection I do not think the troop fully recovered. And what really saddens me is that for all the new folks joining BSA who have no idea what Scouting truly is, this "family scouting" theme is all they will have. And try having a conversation with these folks about how things are suppose to be done. You will be told you are wrong, you have no idea what you are talking about, and Scouting has to change with the times. My personal favorite is a someone telling me the CS information that SOMEONE ON THE 411 CUB SCOUT COMMITTEE (caps for emphasis) gave me was wrong and that they had no idea what they were talking about. (sarcasm on) REALLY?!?!?! A member of the committee that revamped the Cub Scout program doesn't know what he is talking about when it comes to the Cub Scout program? (sarcasm off)

Most of what I wanted say has been said. Instead of classroom stuff BSA needs more hand on OUTING. I think the powers that be have forgotten that. In fact I know they have. Instead of relying on volunteers in the field to make suggestions to improve the program, they ignore them EVEN WHEN THEY ASK FOR VOLUNTEER INPUT (emphasis), and instead rely on "experts" in academia who may know little to nothing about Scouting. I harp on the 94% who were against ( 18%) or strongly against (76%) Instapalms, but that is the best example. And don't forget the misquote in one edition of the handbook published in the past 7 years: Outing ia two-thirds of Scouting. 1) the actual quote is " OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING," and 2) do the math: 6/8 simplified is 3/4. Anecdotal about kids wanting the outdoors. My troop is small with no feeder pack. Right now we have 13 Scouts, and one 18 year old ASM about to graduate. But we are an active troop. As soon as we were able, we got back in the outdoors. Of the 14 folks above, 5 transferred from other troops. We were visited by 2 folks last week who are not happy with their current troop because they are not being active. They liked the fact that we have been meeting, we did our own summer camp, and have been doing day trips and campouts when we could. While meetings can be disorganized, they are Scout run, and that was another factor for them visiting.

Not only with folks focused on the Summit, but also if they keep hiring education experts instead of outdoor experts. Comparing training syllabi from a decade+ ago to today's online classes and today's ITOLS class, there is so much left out. Heck When I taught ITOLS in 2010, I had to use older BSA literature that Bill Hillcourt wrote to supplement the instruction. And that's another thing, having a live instructor versus an online session with no interatction. Turning summer camp into summer MB school has not helped. the constant pushing for Eagle has not helped. Coming up with the FIRST CLASS FIRST YEAR mantra has definitely not helped. MBUs have not helped. And not all the online ZOOM MB meetings where 100+ Scouts are in a "class" and "earnign the MB just for being there has definately not helped. What I find interesting in my neck of the woods is that those troops that do not focus on advancement, but instead on adventure, are growing. Those on advancements, not as much.

I am sorry about the situation you are in. Focus on you son, and remember the positive impact you made on him, his friends, and other youth.

@69RoadRunner and @Jameson76 Trust me, I understand the competition. But it was just like during the school year when football, baseball, basketball, band, cheerleading, JROTC, etc are going on. So it has never been a big deal. And this has been with troops as small as 11, and as large as 40.

At one time long ago, my district had a Scoutreach program with a Boys and Girls Club. My understanding was that it did not work well, and I was not to try and restart it.