Eagle94-A1

I would hope someone at every council who has access to the POC has gone through to see if anyone accused is still active and/or alive. T I admit I assumed victims would be questioned by law enforcement and notified about the arrests prior to them happening.

Is that not the case now? I know in my state, that is the case. Besides, didn't Kasnoff state BSA did not do enough in the past? Now tBSA is doing something, and he complains? Besides the complete dissolution of the BSA, what else does he want?

Stupid question, so no offense is meant. If you had a list of accused abusers (remember, innocent until proven guilty) wouldn't you want to go through the list to see if any are still active in Scouting, remove them from Scouting, contact authorities, and begin the legal process to put them behind bars? I would think this is a good thing, especially for victims.

Who trusts National now? We have lost a lot of experienced and knowledgeable volunteers because of the way they have been treated, i.e. ignored and lied to. And with the way they are treating COs, i.e. not honoring the commitments, promises, and obligations they said they would do, only a crazy sense of loyalty to the youth is why I am still involved.

Why would a former CO believe a BSA Facility Use Agreement would protect them when the Charter Agreements they have signed and the promises that were made to them are not being upheld now?

For those who have questions on non abuse IVF cases, I can verify that the one individual i know in them with no accusation of abuse was not in any of the released files I looked at online. I specifically looked for them.

Sounds more like a renaming of the PARAPROFESSIONAL (emphasis) position.

We had one new Cub who broke down and cried because he was not turned upside down like his two older brothers were when he received Bobcat. He had been looking forward that that. Dad took him outside after the meeting, flipped him upside down, and ha oldest brother pin on the Bobcat rank. New Bobcat was happy then.

WOW! That must have been a first.

@David CO, Bet they didn't know you were Catholic. They don't like Catholics either.

From the one case I am familiar with, the individual was temporarily reinstated while the trial was going on. When he lost his case, membership was revoked. Individual had an appeal filed, but when SCOTUS ruled on the Dale case, saying BSA had a right to approve and reject members, he ended his appeal.

As @yknot said, it is recommended, not required at this time. When I first took the Aquatics Supervision training courses several years ago, we were told that there is a push by some at the national level to require the Aquatics Supervision Swimming and/or Aquatics Supervision Paddle Sports in order for troops to do aquatic activities. But that has not been implemented. Personally those two courses are better for troops than BSA Lifeguard. BSA Lifeguard is more of a pool certification now than waterfront.

@ThenNow, would you mind changing the quote to @johnsch322 since he is the one you are quoting and not me? His quote is below. Thanks in advance.

Sorry, I cannot remember where I read this at. It was in a book on the topic, maybe Scouts' Honor, a book referenced in a previous post. Did a report on this topic in undergrad way back in the day. And like an idiot I got rid of almost all my stuff from that time.

Prior to Mandatory Reporting Laws for youth organizations, starting in the 1980s if memory serves and varied state to state, policy was for removal of abuser, and report to the Scout Executive (SE). SE would encourage family to press charges as BSA could not legally do so at the time.. Whether charges were pressed or not, SE filled out paperwork and any supporting documentation to national office. Once in the IVF, every name registration form was checked against the IVF. This could take months as it was prior to computers, and names had to be checked manually. It was also time before SSNs and drivers' licenses were required on forms, so I did read about a 2 to 3 folks using aliases to get back into BSA after moving. But that was rare. Initially when YPT came about in the late 198os, want to say 1988 or 89, any abuse reports would go to the SE because mandatory reporting laws varied greatly. Nowadays it report to local authorities then the SE.

Agreed. That is why if cases prior to mandatory reporting did not have the victim's or his parents' approval to press charges, nothing was done legally to them. All BSA could do is place them in the IVF. Also I want to apologize to @johnsch322 for the snarkiness of my post at the end. YP is an extremely big deal for me, and I get ticked off, to put it mildly, when people say things get swept under the rug today. As I have posted previously, I have had to report a friend and long time Scouter who was for a YP violation. As I sincerely stated, I hope I never have to do that again.

I've commented previously on why the IVF were not widely known, and why information in those files were kept confidential. Not everyone in the files were arrested and convicted. OldScout448 mentions how one abuser did not have charges pressed by the parents, but was placed in those files. One person I know who was placed in the IVF did have a criminal investigation done, and was essentially exonerated by the investigators. They found enough evidence to support her claim that the teenager was being a peeping Tom while she was showering after the Scout's lights out in the assigned times for the adults. Even though she was cleared, her reputation was ruined, and she was never allowed back in the BSA. As for the latest incident, I like chocolate filled donuts thank you.. BSA volunteers have been mandatory reporters for quite some time now. I can tell you first hand that reporting abusers does indeed happen. I hope I never have to do it again.

In what setting are you talking about? I know when I was a provisional SM one year at summer camp, there really was no patrol method. At the training I went through and staffed, monitoring by staffed was done. But you still have a lot of "Storming, Forming, Norming, Performing." One thing That may have helped prevent the 'Lord of the Flies," but was extremely detrimental to patrol performance, was the patrols were aged based. In both situations, the younger Scout patrol at training, ages 13-14 and First Class+, were the ones with the most challenges and had the most problems.

@Sentinel947, I pointed out another case with someone using the same methods to show this is not just a BSA problem, but a societal one.

My point is that no one is safe anywhere. Perps will do everythinf in there power to get what they want. I mentioned specific locations that were deemed safe, where activity has occured. As for the camera guy, he was setting the cameras up in the bathroom at his house, other peoples home bathrooms and even in one person's bedroom. From what i have read and heard, it does not take much time to set one up, and they are extremely difficult to find.

Regarding the videotaping at a camp shower, if I can find the link, I will post. Read an article where one college guy recorded over 18 ladies in bathrooms and showers. He would go in the bathroom before them, set up the cameras, and record. He did this at his and other folks homes. The cameras are extremely difficult to spot.

Don't be too sure of that. Climbing harnesses and Swiss seats can be tricky put on. I know I was extremely careful putting those on females back in the day. Also knew one couple, both climbers, who swore they did some nighttime activities on a tower. Two consenting adults staff members were sent home for fooling around in a canoe at one camp I worked at.

African or European?

Camp we went to had staffing and food issues as well. I have been told by those who have been there it previously that the food was not up to what it has been in the past ( it was the worse camp food I had ever had, and that is saying something. We had folks get sick because of the expired milk). And they were short staffed. Other than that, Scouts had fun, even the one who told me midweek "I never want to come back." He wants to go back in a two years.

I am going to assume it depends upon the camp you are at. They were available at the camp I attended this year.