Eagle94-A1

Regarding research, there is a ton of research, not only from the past but also current that supports single gender learning and spaces. GSUSA uses it so support their rationale as to why they do not allow boys into their program. Which no one has a problem with. Some Scouting associations, while coed, do segregate the sexes at the Scout/Guide age. Cubs is coed, then you have Boy Scouts and Girl Guides for 11-13, then coed 14+ And how many WAGGS countries are coed, and those associations are members of both WOSM and WAGGS.

I think they were more concerned about GSUSA's reaction, and they did sue. Yep I too see another lawsuit.

Because GSUSA was not meeting their desire for an adventurous program. And their leadership does not want to change. While society does indeed teach there are no differences in roles, psychology and other sciences do show otherwise. Give me until the weekend to get the research collected. Because research from way back, and event to this day, shows that both boys and girls need their own spaces without the opposite gender present to develop. Again, GSUSA has not listened to their base, and have lost many over the years.

25+ years from now, folks will still be saying "Boy Scouts," "BSA," etc. Just look at Venturing and all the older names that had nothing to do with the Venturing program still in use, i.e. 'venture crews," "Venture Scouts," etc. And I can tell you from the discussions i have had since it was announced, folks with years of irreplaceable knowledge, skills, abilities, time, and treasure are upset. In my neck of the woods we have lost a lot of folks over recent membership changes, and finding replacements is difficult to impossible. Best money example is the current FOS goal is 5%, yes FIVE PERCENT (emphasis), of what it was 25 years ago.. And if you adjust both today's goal to what the 1999 adjusted dollars are , it is only 1.4%, yes ONE POINT 4 PERCENT (again emphasis), of the 1999 adjusted goal. And do not forget the volunteers who conducted trainings, program activities , commissioner service, etc who have left. We have lost a lot.

After talking to a professional recently, the writing in the wall that the "trial" period of 8/24-7/25 will be successful and full integration will occur. Also from the discussion, if you do not go coed, the council may not be able to help you recruit. I know my troop's volunteers will be meeting about folding the troop at the end of the year. Between existing challenges, and hint that we need to go coed or we will not be supported hit hard. But as @Scoutldr said, That is the sentiment of a lot of the boys I have worked with over the years. Sadly there are fewer and fewer places for just boys. The same research GSUSA uses to support girls only places and organizations, also supports boys only places and organizations. But sadly society could care less about boys and men. Maybe that is why men are essentially checking out.

This concerns me about Scouts Canada, from the article above. "The audacious goal for 2025 Scouts Canada's goal is to support 50,000 young people with unique opportunities they wouldn't find elsewhere through new programs that meet the local needs of underrecognized, newcomer, and mainstream communities." 50,000 youth members?

Sadly they may never be able to get back. I know someone who was falsely accused, and was never reinstated after the investigation supported her story.

So you do agree that those who believe that the current membership policies are wrong do have the right to speak up. Then why are you upset when they do so? Can you show me the results of the membership (emphasis) survey that had the majority support current membership policies, because I have been looking for years. All I can find is the non-member results, which did not include any BSA identifiable markers. Also why would BSA exclude a major segment of their membership from the polls? If I can find the screen capture of the poll, if you were in the Western Region, and chartered to an LDS Unit, you were not suppose to do the survey?

Please remember, the folks who pushed for the membership changes internally by your logic should have removed themselves, or been removed by BSA long before the membership changes happened.

Change does takes time, sometimes decades. Especially those who have put in decades of blood, sweat, tears, time and treasure to the organizations. Trust me, I have seen what happens when they leave: no one fills the void. Just remember Venturing celebrated their 25th year last year, and people still call them venture scouts and venture crews, not Venturers and Venturing Crews.

One of the many reasons why my district and council are in trouble "old school Scouters" that left when membership changes occurred, and there was no one with the knowledge, skills, abilities, time, and treasure to take their place. They leaving left giants gaps that years later still have not been filled. Someone with 10, 20, 40, 60+ years experience in the program is extremely hard to replace. You got others who still disagree with the membership changes, and will tell you why they disagree with them. They remain involved for "their boys," and are slowly coming around.

I think I will keep my old uniform. Pants, hat, socks, and basic insignia ( world crest, ring, and WRONG (emphasis) council patch is $120. Can't get a shirt on the uniform builder.

If the camp commissioners and other staff are not doing their job, go to another camp.

Only time I've seen a US flag replaced with another country's flag is Puerto Rico. BSA even had literature with pictures of Scouts wearing PR flags instead of US flags.

Yep. And it has been clarified. As regards the clarification...

@DannyG. May want to check out the updated G2SS. They changed how Webelos camp, including with troop.

Back in the day, yes. We were constantly told "you need to multiply ourselves" in regards to volunteer recruitment and customer service. This was at national training. On the local level, the focus of in-house training was to recruit "yes men" on the district committee so they can do what you tell them. Sadly this is truth. I know people who have been asked to take down national announcements from district webpages. When I had a DE, I told him stuff before the SE did a lot. CLARIFICATION ON OP, when I said council was not going to make enough money, they want a "surplus" budgeted to go to council in addition to the "emergency fund" which if not used goes to council.

Once upon a time I knew exactly what a DE did, because I was one. And depending upon time of year, we did a lot more than 40 hours, not including on-call time. One of my buddies did the calculations, if we were not exempt, we would be making less than the minimum wage of the time. However, I am clueless today. All I can think is driving places as the district sizes in my neck of the woods increased dramatically. My district went from 2 counties, to 7 counties overnite. Back in the day, the focus was MONEY, MEMBERSHIP MANPOWER, and the order of importance depended upon the SE, and to a lesser degree time of year. Today it seems money. fundraising was suppose to support the program to keep costs down for the Scouts. Let's face it, camps need year round maintenance, not just in the summer. Folks need certifications to conduct events. Units need recruiting supplies. And yes part of the money paid for the pros, but we were doing things that would be difficult for volunteers to do, i.e. getting into the schools in the day to recruit, making a 3 hour round trip to drop off supplies for a district event, getting to a district event before gates open to things set up, etc. However I am seeing camps fall apart and getting sold, volunteers are having to pay to get certified to hold events, units have to make or buy their own recruiting materials, pro's won't talk to the school system to get into the school, And you do not see pros district events, let alone setting up for it. As for getting supplies, they do not get you enough, requiring you to buy extra locally (or if patches make a second order costing more money than if they got the original amount), do not get the supplies you requested (causing to to purchase locally at a high cost), or scheduling a conflicting event at the same location (creating chaos because of lack of communication with event organizers, and office staff who also know nothing about the event they put on the calendar). Membership was also big. Getting into schools, doing the talks, helping organize public events that would attract folks, etc. Heck one of my friends turned his vehicle into a Mobil recruiting advertisement complete with a filing system in the hatch with not only applications, but other supplies. I cannot remember the last time a SE got into a school to do recruiting. Manpower, or recruiting adult volunteers not only for units, but the district, was important. I usually combined recruiting unit adults with recruiting Scouts. Recruiting adults for events was more challenging as I had to meet with them on their schedule. I also had to be prepared to answer questions, give advice, etc. And I also had to help at events they were in charge of. Today, as I mentioned above, the professionals seem to cause more problems than help. I and other have asked for help with events, with at best little to no help, at worst being ignored, yelled, or cursed out. As I mentioned, at best a lot of good volunteers no longer want to help run district events and focus on their units instead. Worse they quit altogether. Worst, especially those in the business community and are FOS contributors, they quit giving to FOS, and talk to their buddies about the abuse they got who also quit giving. When I calculate what FOS then is worth today, and figure out how much our goals are today, it is frightening. The goal for my area today is 8.8% of what I was raising. membership dropping is part of it. But the bulk of that is a result of business no longer giving. Word does indeed get around.

So if a council is not doing there part and supporting units, are units still responsible for supporting the council? What happens if they alienate their district volunteers, causing them to focus on their units, or quit altogether? It has gotten to the point where units are looking for ways to switch to another council. The official reason for canceling there is lack of MBCs All MBCs, were dropped by my council, even if registered in a unit. Irony of that reason is Council in a newsletter stated they were aware of the problem, and that MBCs with units are still MBCs while the council is trying to fix the records. And last time I talked to event organizers, only 2 MB classes still needed MBCs, and I could teach one of them in addition to the one I volunteered for. And the event has gone on for over 30 years, so it is not a quality issue. I was actually suppose to staff this event. And I have helped run events in the past. At least for the past 10+ years, when council intervenes, there are major problems. I have had events where supplies I requested months in advance were not ordered, and had to be purchases locally, at a much higher price, the day before and of the event. I have had patch orders which used previous event stats to calculate, downsized to the point where enough patches were not ordered, and a second order needed to be made due to complaints. That cost them more money than the original order would have AND alienated volunteers. Worse, I have seen a camporee chief get yelled and cursed out at by a pro. A lot of folks are tired of the abuse.

That is why many volunteers in my area are no longer volunteering on district and council levels.

I was focusing on units, not district and council committees. Shall we add this to the topic, or start a new thread? Serious question.

Not in a good mood. I found out that my council cancelled a district event for the second time, with 8 days notice. Apparently they were not going to make enough money on the event, so they cancelled it, leaving units and volunteers who planned to attend and staff the event high and dry. As I mentioned, this is the second time they cancelled an event on short noticed. The first event was cancelled because it was "competing" with another, similar event. Yet the first event was an annual event for over 30 years, and the "competing" event only started before COVID, and didn't happen again until this year. The new event could not handle the extra participants from the first event when they tried to do that event instead.As for summer camp, there are so many issues, most units go out of council. Folks for years have given feedback to the powers that be for years, and it has fallen on deaf ears. So the council is not providing the programming opportunities they promised, which hurts units. I've already mentioned the recruiting challenges in other posts that council will not help units with. But here is the kicker, the council complains when units do not want to do FOS presentations. They complain when troops do not want to go to the council's summer camp. And they are now complaining folks do not want to do their weekend activities. So the question is, Do units support the council, or council supports the units?

THANK YOU!

Yes, but they have to give up their under 18 friends in Scouting per GTSS YP rules, which many refuse to do in this area.

Apparently I don't have permission