Eagle94-A1

Sorry, going off on a tangent and venting. My district and council is in major trouble because professionals have run off long time, experienced, and dedicated volunteers. It has gotten to the point that units are beginning to do their own thing, not attend any district or council events or activities, and are shopping at neighboring councils' stores for Scouting supplies so that none of the units' money supports the council.

And even then, folks will ignore their training. I had one SM I trained tell me "The BSA needs to change with the times." He was doing a lot wrong, hemorrhaging Scouts, and not recruiting Scouting. Eventually and DL I trained and worked with became an ASM, and slowly turned some things around. And one of the parents that was causing problems in my old troop was 'trained." he "didn't care what I'm suppose to do." And how is that working out? The training today sucks. All you need to do is read some of the Facebook posts to see that. And when you do try to help, you get all types of excuses, and being accused of being a bully.

Or they were involved during the 1970s "Improved Scouting Program." One Eagle from ISP era did not understand why camping is so important. They do a lot of car camping and MBUs. In my neck of the woods, that is an understatement. I have heard of district commissioners being yelled and cursed at by professionals, and read one DE's abusive texts to the district commissioner. I myself have been ignored and overruled by the DE about an event I was running. I have friends who have had events changed at the last minute by professionals. I had a friend removed from his district and council level duties because he was not a "team player," read he opposed the sale of a camp and was trying to save it. Within the year prior to removal, he was responsible for 2 council level and and 5 district level activities. So volunteers are used until they burn out, or forced out, in my neck of the woods.

Completely and totally agree. Check out the Facebook posts to see all the interference new adults with no experience are causing: selecting MBs for their kids, holding back a scout so he the rest of his NSP can advance with him, adults picking campouts, ad nauseum. And if you try to discuss what they are doing is wrong, you are told "you do not know my scout," "my scout has (name your medical issue) problems," "why are you bullying me," etc. My favorite parent comment is still "he might hurt himself using a safety pin." We teach Scouts to use knives, axes, saws, etc.

I am not so sure. Sounds local volunteers will be pushed aside. I see a lot of headaches with all the mergers

Do you honestly believe national will be transparent and not hide stuff in questionable surveys? I am still waiting to see the MEMBER (emphasis) survey results from 2017. And even if they did not hide the results, would they listen? I remember the 2014/15 Eagle Palm Survey where 94% WERE OPPOSED to Instapalms, specifically 78% STRONGLY AGAINST and 16% Against. Yet we have them now( bold, underlining, and caps for major emphasis).

Those were all in the CUB SCOUT LEADERS' HOW TO BOOK at one time.

Any place we can find copies of those slides?

A few questions. 1. What happens with the Webelos Den that wants to complete Scouting Adventure, but doesn't have a troop at the same CO? 2. What about the new troop that is having challenges that wants to team up with an experienced troop to help them get better? 3. What if a Cub Scout Pack is doing a Cross Over at a camp out, and their Webelos are going to two, or even three, different troops, and wants the troops to camp with them? 4. What about the two troops that meet at summer camp and want to do a joint activity? 5. What about the troop that has some vacancies for ( Name your high adventure base), and no one else from the troop can go? Yes, I have seen all the scenarios above happen. If it wasn't troops getting together to create an event that competes with council, all two or more units would need is approval from their COS to do this instead of the council. I have seen better run and cheaper events run by multiple units. Heck one event was going on for a number of years on it's own, and council decided to create their own to compete with it, and the volunteer event was still better and cheaper.

I did have an advantage over the new folks. I served 22 years in various Boy Scout/Scouts BSA and district/council levels before joining the troop. Even then, the first year I was an committee member so I could A. Deprogram myself from 5 years of Cub Scouts :)- , and B. to get use to the troop's culture. Camp Outs help, summer camp was even better.

1. WELCOME TO DA FORUMS! 2. Regarding training, what Scouts BSA program training courses did you take? 3. What experience with the Scouts BSA, formerly Boy Scout, Program do you have? Please do not include time as a Cub Scout Leader as they are two different programs, with major differences. 4. Follow T2Eagle's advice. I will give you a story about why it's important in a minute. 5. The reason why some "Senior Scouters" may seem hostile to new folks is that it takes years to build a program, but only a few months to destroy it. New folks, especially recently crossed over ex Cub Scout Leaders, do not truly grasp Youth led, and cause major problems. Part of it is they all this training and experience as Cub Scout Leader where they are in charge, and then they cross over and need to "unlearn what you have learned" as Master Yoda would say. The other part is that it is natural for parents to want to help their Scouts, but they need to learn to "let go." It can be extremely difficult for adults to make that transition. They can interfere so much that folks want to quit. 6. I spent 5 years with one troop, helping to build it up, to the point where the adults could sit back and supervise with out intervening. We almost got there. The last 17 months were hell because some well meaning new cross over parents and Cub Scout Leaders did not get it and wanted a continuation of Cub Scouts. Multiple meetings, peer to peer mentoring, or training did not worked. The folks thought they knew better, ignored everyone, and ignored training. It gradually got worse. Scouts starting complaining about them at BORs that they were not part of. PLs began walking away from their patrols when they interfered. For my boys and I, the quitting point was when the new folks caused so much chaos and anarchy on one camp out. They first screwed up before the camp out by going to the camp a day early and setting up in the wrong area. On the day of the camp out, they refused to move to the correct location. This caused the accompanying Webelos to also camp in the wrong location instead of the troop ( and that Den did not Cross Over to the troop as a result). This caused major problems with the "Senior Scouters" to the point that several were willing to step down that night, because they refused to listen. Next the new folks kept overruling the directions the SPL and PLC were giving to their troop. Imagine the chaos caused by having 2 different and opposite sets of directions being given, then add rain into the equation. The SPL was so ticked off he walked away in disgust and considered quitting. Then the new adults had the nerve to complain about the confusion they were sowing and how the SPL and PLs were not doing their jobs. Eventually the COR had to intervene because of the constant ignoring of the SM and ASM corps and complaints from the Scouts. When my boys and I left, and I almost took 1/2 the troop with me. And that is when he stepped in. There is 17 months of posts here if you want the full details. 7. I cannot reiterate enough T2Eagle's suggestion. IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!! One troop I was in had a policy of having folks serve on the committee at least a year before becoming an ASM, so that they can learn the troop's culture, get trained, and see youth led in action. 8. Good luck.

National came out with this rule a few years back. Page 21 of the GTSS states "Local council approval is needed for unit-coordinated overnight camping activities involving other units not chartered by the same organization. Units that wish to host events involving other units that do not share the same charter partner must have approval from their council. This includes events for packs, troops, crews, and ships from the same council; neighboring councils; the same territory; or other territory" Stupid rule I know. I Think it was put into place to prevent some units from doing their own summer camps and camporees. I know 3 troops in one council use to put on their own summer camp, and invited others to attend. It was a better quality and cheaper summer camp, although limited to 1 weeklong session. That took away the council. I do not know if other troops are still involved, but since the 3 troops had the same CO, they can still get away from it.

1. Have a handout with a list of gear AS WELL AS a list of household items you can substitute. 2. Have someone bring gear as well as household items to substitute. 3. Talk about what to look for if purchasing gear. 4. EMPASIZE THAT HOUSEHOLD ITEMS CAN BE USED IF THEY CANNOT AFFORD CAMPING GEAR. Major emphasis. I had someone bring all their latest greatest gear, and it was scaring some of the parents. Had to tell him to emphasize he has been camping for several years and accrued this stuff over time. I had to show the how to use household items. 5. Tents. Set up a tent to demonstrate. BUT emphasize each tents is different and you need to borrow or buy one in advance to set up in advance and make sure you have everything. 6. MAKE IT FUN!

1988 or 1989. I remember the approximate year because we had a physician, who was also registered with BSA with the troop, who would give us free physicals. The year No one-on-one contact came out, the troop committee chairman sat in the physical as well. I remember asking why he was present, and her said the new rule. In my smartaleckness of the time I commented, "Oh yeah we really need to worry about Doc_________________ since he has 11 kids and one on the way."

I have a long time Scouter of the troop who does not like the fact that the troop is owned by the church and the pastor can change how we do things. We have had a change in leadership recently and the new pastor has asked us to stick to our Scout room, and avoid going into other areas unless we reserve them in advance. In the past, we had free reign as long as it was not in use.

thank you.

When does national EVER listen to the volunteers? 3 instances come immediately to mind. I piloted the NSP way back when, and it was a complete and utter failure, yet they implemented it. Second time was "Instapalms" Of those polled about "Instapalms," 94% were either against ( 18%) or strongly against (76%) Yet they went with it anyway. 3rd time was the June 2015 Cub Scout Program. Several years by volunteers went into developing the program, and at least 1 member of the committee got input from active Cub Scout leaders on the ground. Program implementation info came out in advance at RTs, and RT attendees knew the changes would be a paradigm shift causing lots of changes. In my neck of the woods, those packs that went to RT got the info and implemented great programs. Those packs that did not attend RT freaked out and complained about all the changes., with some parents commented it makes it to hard for the Cubs. December 2016, without any advance notice National dumbs down the Cub Scout program changing requirements mid year. Thankfully my pack kept with the original requirements and plans until May, and changed things around again. Unless you have money or a PhD, I do not think National will listen to you.

I agree with Malraux, keeping secrets, especially in regards to YP is an extremely bad idea. Further I am interested in what safety improvements . Some of the the ideas to improve Scouting that have been listed on previous threads by survivors are in place, and have been for years, and in some cases decades.

The only Coalition I know about the the Coalition for Abuse Scouts for Justice. And I know about them because of this website. I would guess 90% of volunteers do not know what is going on, or care, as they are focused on their units. COVID has hit many of us big time and we are struggling to survive. As for safer Scouting, the only recommendation I am aware of is removing the 72 hour rule (non-registered adults can camp for a max of 72 hours at an activity) for Scouts BSA, Sea Scouts, & Venturing. The plan is to still keep non-registered adults up to 72 hours at the Cub Scout since that is family camping focused and in my experience EVERYONE in the family goes camping. Volunteers currently undergo background checks, YPT training, 2 Deep Leadership, 18 to 20 year olds no longer count towards 2 Deep Leadership, and all activities require 2 registered adults in attendance, or a parent in the case of Merit Badge Counseling (and I bet that will be gone since it appears most folks use MBUs now to get MBs. Additionally volunteer applications are still reviewed against the IVF to keep folks who have no criminal convictions but have committed a crime out of the program.

While I know folks will do stupid things, including those over 21, I would still like to see the raw data to analyze this information.

You and me both. I remember back in the day being told by a newly crossed over adult, that I was to young to know what I was doing. Thankfully that adult didn't burn anything down with what he was doing.

Could you please elaborate?

Scouting lost phenomenal folks due to the changes in the age policy, All of them feel that BSA disrespected them. Which is really sad because in my experience the 18-20 year olds are better Scouters than the recently crossed over adults because A. they have the knowledge, skills, and abilities already, despite the lack of official training, and B. they were the peers and role models of the Scouts, and they already have the respect of them. In one case the person who aged out would be unable to follow YP policies outside of Scouting since he is still in HS and several of his classmates are involved in Scouting. Since he is not registered, he can contact the Scout anytime needed now.

That's because back in 1989, someone equated earning First Class and retention. Two factors that were never taken into account were 1) Activity level of troops and 2) LDS 11 year old patrols and mandatory registration in Scouts.

Agree. My middle son has had issues because of the paper pushing some of the paperpushing requirements for some of the active ones. Right now it the trail cooking requirements for Cooking. Two quotes come to mind with this. 1. "OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING." and 2. "SCOUTING IS OUTING!" In the 1970s, BSA took tried to take the outing out of Scouting to the point that between 1972 and 1979, you could earn Eagle without a single night of camping. BSA took a nosedive in membership, and Bill Hillcourt had to come out of retirement to save the BSA. Zoom MB classes are wrong.