Eagle94-A1

If a Scout or Scouter cannot properly undergo the tests of the Ordeal, are they truly worthy to join the Order? If the tests really do not mean anything, why bother having them, and let everyone join the OA? As for "hazing," that is a direct quote from the LA when i asked why we do not send the folks who are not undergoing the tests to leave.

I remember when you could be told to leave the Ordeal if you were not following directions. Now it is considered "hazing" if you tell them to leave. That blew my mind when I first was told this. Sadly I have seen folks talking the entire time, and when asked if they think they deserve to be members, said yes. I have seen an adult be placed in a work party of one, because he was extremely negative, would not stop talking or complaining, and it was affecting the rest of the work party. He got in. Worse was I saw an entire work part stop and refuse to do another thing. Again when I asked why we don't send them home, I was told it would be considered "hazing," and they have to make the decision. IMHO, if they do not follow the rules, they made their decision. Sadly national disagrees.

I been in 5 councils, 6 including the national council, and worked in 2, as well as for national supply. I have volunteered on the council level, and have friends who have volunteered on the regional and national levels. I stand by what I said. And how many here discuss issues like the above that are done on the council level?

I may need to tell my troop Summit is off the list. That is one camp someone wanted to look into.

Did 2 adults get in for free? Camp we went to did that, and extra adults are 1/2 price of the Scouts.

WOW. I have not attended a camp that charged full price for adults, although I know about 1 of them.

@fred johnson, Please note I was commenting on this statement. And I stand by what I say.

Do you honestly believe that volunteers are not handpicked? Do you honestly believe that professionals will not get "Yes men" on those committees? Do you honestly believe that if the volunteers go against the professionals, they will either be removed or ignored? Anyone remember the Chicago Area Council incident a few years back? Anyone remember the 411 Cub Scout Committee June 2015 to December 2016 program? Anyone remember Philmont being mortgaged without the volunteers learning about it after the fact? And these are a few items on the national level. Yep Chicago became a national issue when they intervened to overrule the council executive board members.

Respectfully disagree. Once upon a time, the OA had election quotas, i.e. you could only vote fro X number out of Y eligible. Now there is no limit to the number you can vote for. SMs had to meet the same criteria as other adults, i.e. have 15 days of camping, be nominated by troop committee, and be selected by lodge committee. Now SMs automatically get in. Time between Ordeal Member and Brotherhood member use to be 10 months, now it is 6 months. And Scouts use to be able to have their name withheld from teh ballot if they were not interested, now they automatically get put on it, even if they stated publicly they have no interest.

Lot of Natives are in the military. Could work with them. I know I had a one stationed at an local AFB sit in one of my classes to see what was expected so they could teach the MB.

1. Welcome. 2. I still wear my 1990s uniform as they are better built and much more comfortable than today's uniforms.

Either the councils are being kept in the dark by national with everything going on, the councils are ignorant of what is going on, the councils have their heads in the sand, or the councils to do not want to pass along the bad news to volunteers thinking it will cause a death spiral.

I know the two Scout Association camps I worked at in the UK were open to non-Scout groups. We had school groups from the UK, Belgium, and Germany use the camps. And of course we had Scouts from all over using them.

Not a lawyer, but my understanding is that if BSA made those records public, WITHOUT A COURT ORDER (emphasis), they would be held for libel.

Correct. They were placed in the IVF and never removed. The sheriff's department doing the investigation found enough evidence to show that the "scout" was being a peeping Tom after hours at the adult showers during the designated time for ladies, which was after lights out. This "scout" had a history of sneaking out after hours and lying to avoid trouble.

BSA's policy is to protect youth and itself. I do not know how they will decide on a youth. I do know the individual who was exonerated had the District Award of Merit, Silver Beaver, and was scheduled to undergo the Vigil.

You are correct, BSA would have local law enforcement involved. But the accused would be removed from Scouting, until law enforcement concluded their investigation. Even then, the accused may be permanently banned, even if the evidence exonerated the accused.

Law enforcement may have been called in and it is being investigated by them. Those things do take time. HOWEVER, BSA policy is to remove the accused from Scouting, EVEN IF NO EVIDENCE IS AVAILABLE AT THE TIME (caps for emphasis), The safety of the members is paramount. It may be a crime, but how many folks making false reports actually get convicted? There are numerous accounts of false reporting in the news. Incidents at Columbia and Duke Universities immediately come to mind. And do not forget the guy in Georgia, who went to jail for a number of years, because of a false report and perjury during the trial. He was later exonerated when the accuser finally admitted she lied. And I know a Scout who falsely accused a Scouter. The Scouter was removed immediately from Scouting, and placed in the IVF, DESPITE THE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION SHOWING CONCLUSIVELY THAT HER STORY WAS THE TRUE STORY! (caps for emphasis). She was never reinstated. As for the "Scout," he eventually received Eagle and continued with his life as normal. Nothing happened to him.

In my experience and research, only 1 person ever got their membership back. I read about a guy who stopped at a bar in uniform who got kicked out. Reason he stopped at the bar in uniform was that the troop's bus broke down in the middle of nowhere, and the SM walked over a mile or two to make phone calls to a tow company and the parents, It took over a year for him to be reinstated. Sadly everyone else I know or read about that has been placed in the IVF (because that is where the Scouter is being placed) has not won appeals. This includes the individual who was accused of a YPT violation, and was cleared by local law enforcement after a criminal investigation cleared her.

If the current CO agrees to sign over the unit number, YES! (Emphasis, Ok, maybe a little screaming in joy for you ) Troop I grew up in had 3 COs over it's 25+ year history, and got to keep it's tenure. there is a form that needs to be filled out, and the current CO has to agree to the transfer, and if they ever start a new unit, they get a new number.

This concerns me for a variety of reasons. 1. One of the reasons why many girls I have talked to left GSUSA is because of the mandatory cookie sales. They spend what, 2 or 3 months out of the years hawking cookies. And they get pennies on the box. 2. Limits on units. Will councils state that units can only camp on their properties? I have read here and elsewhere that councils do that by only have their camps approved for Cub camping. 3. What if the council neglects the units? I have seen units get ignored by council because they do not go to the council camp, participate in popcorn sales, etc. 4. What if the council professionals have issues with a unit's Scouters, will they have the ability to remove them. I know they can place them in the IVF as I have already seen 1 individual placed in the IVF for political reasons (I think he discovered some accounting discrepancies and questioned it, which led to his being placed in the IVF). 5. Will they have the ability to access funds, and requisition or sell equipment. I have seen OA custodial accounts raided. I know of one council in need of a van for their summer camp program, would they be able to requisition a unit's bus? What about trailers? What about Sea Scout vessals? 6. What about Unit history? In the GSUSA model, units last as long as they have volunteers, usually no more than 10 years, and a GS troop is about equal to a BSA patrol. He have units been around 20, 50, 100+ years. Using the GSUSA model, will units have some type of stability?

One of the NCAP standards, and I believe it is mandatory (sorry It has been a while since I had to deal with NCAP) is that camps' water must be tested ( I think yearly at a minimum) and be deemed potable. I know the NCAP standard was higher than the local standards, and we had to rush a test to open our day camp since it was at our local camp.

I believe 5 years is the 100% vested mark.

Thanks folks for the reassurance, it helps. Yes I want to do my best for my Scouts. I worry about disappointing them, especially having to back out of something they have been looking forward to. This whitewater trip is making me anxious because I want my Scouts to have some good memories. I am the only adult able to go rafting with them, and am thankful that the guides will count towards qualified supervision requirement. One of my Scouts is about to age out, and I wanted this to be a memorable trip for him since he specifically wanted this.

And there was an attempt to to redefine the plan for professionals who had been in the system for decades as well as retirees. I remember the big stink it was causing.