Eagle94-A1

Skip, You are correct, kids want camping. My pack is one of the more active packs with 3 camp outs a year, two of which are organized, council ones. Our program is really out of date, in fact my old book is almost, (try 95%) the same as my sons' books, and I even complained about the lack of adventure. Luckily that is suppose to be changing. On a tangent, parents do the bulk of the work on the CS camp outs I've been on. I know 2 guys who crossed over from Cubs to Scouts left after a few months b/c although they liked to camp, they didn't want to do any of the work. They were so use to the 'rents do the work, they didn't feel they should do any of the cooking or cleaning.

Renax, Does your den camp with a troop or do their own camp outs? I know that Webelos dens can camp on their own, but I've only seen them camp with troops, unless it's a district level event, like my district's Webeloree (and even then, the troops staffing the event usually camp with their CO's pack, but not always). I ask because what I've seen done with parents attending is the Boy Scout leaders take them away from the Scouts, and start orienting them about the Boy Scout program, focusing on differences. Basically keeping htem occupied and out of the Scouts way of having fun.

Skip, Not a daft question at all. Cubs Scouts is considered "family camping," and essentially everyone goes. It's usually Webelos (ages 9 and 10) that they stay with buddies for the first time. Believe it or not, it's been only within the last 15-20 years than an emphasis on Cub Scouts camping has taken place. And we still have a lot of folks, some who should know better, that have the attitude that, "Cubs don't need to camp." In my neck of the woods, it's only been in the past 6 years that anything like Kingsdown ISC's "Cub Hub" has taken place. And there are lots of rules and regs that have to be followed. For example, Cubs can climb, but they cannot abseil (or repel as we call it on this side of the pond), Cubs cannot do moving water boat trips (no raft building and racing in the Channel allowed here), etc. For got to add, some packs do not camp at all. The Latter Day Saints do not allow their Cubs to go camping at all, and I know of at least one pack who's Cubmaster has been around so long, she believes :"Cubs don't need to camp." Gonna get real interesting June 1st when the new changes, which I am told incorporate a lot more outdoor activities, goes into effect

Fred, I know that when I and my buddies did their Eagle projects back in the day, "meaningful or significant to the scout" were part of the discussion on doing projects. And as others have stated, if you have a passion fro what you are doing, you will be doing a heck of a lot better a job.

With Cubs, I have 2 hydration songs that I used at day camp. For pirate theme camps, the Pirate Cub Scout Hydration Song Yo ho yo ho a Cub Scout's life for me We're Cubs, we're the best and we have the knack, DRINK UP ME HARDIES YO HO (pause for drinking) We hike and we camp, And sometimes backpack DRINK UP ME HARDIES YO HO (pause for drinking) Yo ho yo ho a Cub Scout's life for me For knight theme camps, The Dragon Cub Scout Hydration Song. Late last night when we were all in bed, That old dragon had a cold up in his head. And when he coughed and sneezed He winked his eye and said, There'll be a hot time, for the old Knights tonight. WATER, WATER, WATER! (PAUSE FOR DRINKING) Next year we have a space theme for day camp. Can't think of one off the top of my head. Closest is STAR WARS CANTINA where every time cantina is mentioned, we pause to drink.

Not throwing knives, but tomahawks. I know back in the day when my lodge was running a tomahawk booth, we had to set everything up as if it was a BB gun range: range flag, commands, etc. I believe that was per G2SS. Only problem we had was we didn't have enough 'hawks for the numbers waiting to throw. Me personally, I wouldn't want the Scouts using their personal knives, unless they are specifically made for throwing, as they won't have the right balence and can be damaged.

OUT-FREAKING-STANDING! Now that's a service project, That young man will go far!

Map???? Compass??? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING MAP AND COMPASS! True story. My sister and her family were visiting from out of town, and we were going to the beach with them for a weekend. Now I did some research to see if any construction was occurring on the roads we were taking, got the map out, planned it, etc. She said we didn't need all that, she had GPS and would lead. I tried to tell her about the construction, but she wouldn't listen. I followed her to humor her. WWWWWEEEEEELLLLLL, when we got to the construction it was a mess, and she was kinda helpless b/c her GPS would not give her alternate routes. I got her to pull over finally, told her to follow me, and used my map to get us to the beach.

For whatever reason, when I tried to redo my password, it kept saying the info to redo my password was sent to my email, but I never received an email either in my regular mail or junk mail. Hence the A1 in my name. Unfortunately I typed to fast and hit the register button too fast to notice I put the wrong number in my name. Hence Eagle94 instead of Eagle92. So now I am... EAGLE94-A1

Stosh, Been here a number of years. Long story short, having problems logging in. Had to redo the entire sign up process because it kept saying that it sent the password info to my email, but it never did. And unfortuantely I was typing too fast with the ID to notice a mistake in it until after the fact. Que sara sara. I agree a lot of legalese. Probably because a lot of parents getting upset that their son wasn't getting Eagle. Sometimes the parents, or in my case ME, was right to question the Eagle BOR and state they were going to appeal the decision. Heck I know one scout right now who is going to appeal for an extension for Eagle when the time comes because of things his old troop did and the fact that he spent several months looking for a new troop since the old one went to Trail's Life. But I also know of a few appeals that had no basis. Some were not granted, and unfortunately some were. For the most part I agree with you about if the Scouts are satisfied with the performance let him get credit. But I've been in one case where a scout needed major help improving his performance in a POR. Older Scouts were the first group to mentor, then the adults. In his case, the patrol didn't want to "recall" him, because no one else wanted the job (that's another story). Dad wasn't too happy with the decision to deny POR intitially, even though he knew there were problems because he was an ASM. But eventually dad understood the rationale and agreed to the plan we were going to tell the Scout. We were not going to credit the first two months of his term as PL, but if he works with us and improved the situation, we would credit him with the last 4 months of the term of office. He wasn't to enthused at first, but after some talking and counseling, he came to realize he need to work on being PL. And took us up on the plan. Not only did he get Star at the end of his term of office, he got re-elected as PL, and not because no one else wanted the job.

Will Boy Scouts be there or just Webelos? If Boy Scouts are there, see my post over at http://www.scouter.com/forum/cub-scouts/415707-webelos-troop-combined-camp-out/page2 If it's just Webelos try a Readyman Hike. Basically you prearrange stations along a hike in which people will have "Accidents" that use the Readyman skills. We do this with Webelos at day camp and they love it.

Here is what became a troop tradition with our Webelos overniters: "Wilderness Survival Weekend" Long story short, we found out the nite before the overniter that the troop tents and tarps, and other gear, were destroyed between the last camp out and the one coming up. We decided to do a "survival" camp out, which became so popular that it became an annual event. We divided the Webelos among the patrols and buddied them up with a Boy Scout. We worked on knots and lashings with them, then moved up to building patrol shelters. Break lunch, and work on shelters some more. Once all the patrols were finished with the shelters, we did chariot races for interpatrol competitions, and had fun. Originally we had our cook gear, but over time we moved utensilless cooking. Always had a backup to that because you don't want the Webelos starving.

Does this mean Boy Scouts can earn the Ranger Award now? Sheesh, Boy Scout leaders were complaining about having an award as outdoor oriented as Ranger, hence the NOA. Now Venturers are eligible for the NOA. My question is this who wanted Venturers to get the NOA, adults or the youth?

Good topic to jump into. My question is this, if the patrol or troop that elected a person to a POR do not want removed him from that position, despite poor performance, should he be removed just so that he can be denied time in a POR for advancement? If the answer is yes, then you are going against one of the foundations of Scouting, the patrol method. If you deny him tenure due to performance after serving his term, you are going against an policy in the GTA that changes often. Me personally, if it's a choice against a foundation of the Scouting program that's been around since August 1, 1907, or a policy that changes every so often, Sorry I go with the foundation. Also you have to remember that one repsonibility of the BOR IS "... decide whether he has fulfilled the requirements for the rank. (GTA 8.0.0.1). If he did not the BOR should "... advise the young man that he might not pass the board and to make suggestions about what he might do to improve his chances for success. It is, however, the Scout's decision to go ahead with a board of review or not." (8.0.0.2) Finally, from what I am reading form the section of the GTA below, if you advise the Scout while counseling him to improve his performance or the time will not count IS allowed by the GTA. 4.2.3.4.5 When Responsibilities Are Not Met. If a unit has clearly established expectations for position(s) held, thenâ€â€within reason (sic)â€â€a Scout must meet them through the prescribed time. If he is not meeting expectations, then this must be communicated early (emphasis). Unit leadership may work toward a constructive result by asking him what he thinks he should be accomplishing. What is his concept of the position? What does he think his troop leadersâ€â€youth and adultâ€â€expect? What has he done well? What needs improvement? Often this questioning approach can lead a young man to the decision to measure up. He will tell the leaders how much of the service time should be recorded. If it becomes clear nothing will improve his performance, then it is acceptable to remove the Scout from his position. It is the unit leader's responsibility to address these situations promptly. Every effort should have been made while he was in the position to ensure he understood expectations and was regularly supported toward reasonably acceptable performance. It is unfair and inappropriateâ€â€after six months, for exampleâ€â€to surprise a boy who thinks he has been doing fine, with news that his performance is now considered unsatisfactory. In this case, he must be given credit for the time. (emphasis) Only in rare casesâ€â€if everâ€â€should troop leaders inform a Scout that time, once served, will not count. (sic) If a Scout believes he has performed his duties satisfactorily, but his leaders disagree, then the possibility that expectations are unreasonable should be considered. If after discussions between the Scout and his leadersâ€â€and perhaps including his parents or guardiansâ€â€he believes he is being held to unreasonable expectations, then upon completing the remaining requirements, he must be granted a board of review. If he is an Eagle candidate, then he may request a board of review under disputed circumstances (see "Initiating Eagle Scout Board of Review Under Disputed Circumstances," 8.0.3.2).