Eagle94-A1

I like. Still want to know what the youth staff get in lieu of WB beads as a recognition. Hey, if the adult staffers can get beads, why not youth staff?

Depends upon the event. When I did training, we had to stay out of the red. They didn't want us to make a "surplus," but if it happened, great. IF we did go in the red, district was responsible for making up the difference somehow, i.e. having a surplus at another event. We had very small surpluses (under $25) Now when I did CSDC, the council wanted us to budget a surplus of at least 10% over the actual costs. Part of that was to help out with any unexpected costs. But the surplus from one day camp would help cover those day camps actually lost money. First year as CSDC PD, I found out that my day camp had run into the red for a number of years. I got the deficit down to $15 the first year, and we would have had a surplus if the CD would have listened to me and not buy supplies that I had stated I would get and did get. The second year, we did have a surplus, but that was because I got put in charge of the financial matters of the day camp and not the CD by the DE. Have had surpluses every year since.

While it's been a while since I worked summer camp staff and I am not as up to date with current camp standards, I can see a few issues with using leaders at camp to teach MBs. 1) Is consistency. If each week of new leaders brings a new batch of MBs, how can planning be done in advance for the Scouts to plan their schedules? 2) Is the bureaucracy. Even if the leaders volunteer to teach for the week, national has decided that they have to follow ALL (emphasis) of the same policies and procedures that paid staff have to go through: x number of hours of training, camp YPT, sexual harassment training, first aid and CPR/AED training ad nauseum. I've dealt with this as a CSDC program director and it drives folks nuts. In my opinion, the "Safety" issue is more legal liability and bureaucracy than actual safety concerns for the Scouts. Now to attract college students, I agree better pay and working with colleges to get them college credit will work. And while working with the colleges may be a pain at times, I've seen it work out. An idea I picked up on from another group was scholarships in lieu of pay. I met someone who worked at another organizations summer camp program. None of the staff were paid, all volunteers, their only compensation was room and board. However the organization did have a scholarship program, and every staffer was put into that program.While not every scholarship recipient was a camp staffer, every camp staffer was a scholarship recipient.

Yes, I do see a role for UCs. But what if, despite the attempts of the UC to work with leaders to solve the problem, the UC is ignored?

The Blue Cards thread, in which an SM is doing his own thing, and the Youngest Eagle thread, got me thinking. If a unit is doing their own thing, and Scouts are getting signed off on advancement, how can a troop's advancement problem be identified and corrected before a Scout sits in front oh his EBOR? My council uses the district/council EBOR option. So there is a standing EBOR committee. But the first time they see the scouts is when they go get approval for their Eagle Projects. So the first time they may realize a troop is having advancement challenges, is when they are getting ready for Eagle, which as some have pointed out, problems should have been resolved earlier, which is on the unit level. Worst example of this was an "Eagle" who had major advancement issues and the EBOR denied it. Parents appealed and when the info was sent to national, including detailed notes done by the EBOR on their concerns, national overruled the EBOR. I was told that national stated they should not penalize the Scout for adult leadership problems of his troop. The entire district advancement committee resigned in protest. So how can a district advancement committee ID a problem before it gets to the Eagle stage?

Ok, I need to brag. I was told that last nite was the best meeting ever, better than the canoeing meetings we did in May. Reason I am told was because the Scouts did most of the teaching last nite. We were going over first aid, specifically CPR/AED. I suggested, and the PLC liked, that we add the use of Epi-pens to the instruction since we have one, now 2 scouts, that need to carry them at all times. Yes it's not required, but the Scout I knew about has had to use his epi-pen 2 times at Cub Scout meetings, so I want folks to know how to use it. Anyway, the "Epi-pen King" taught how to use it, and made sure everybody used the epi-pen trainer properly. When I asked, would you trust your life with these guys using your epi-pen on you, he said yes. Now I admit, I taught how to do CPR and use the AED. My work would kill me if I returned with a messed up AED trainer, that's why. BUT, I got two of the older Scouts to demonstrate the skills. Then I got 2 additional scouts who knew how to do CPR to man a total of 4 stations, 2 doing compression only CPR, and 2 doing standard 30:2 CPR, while I checked off AED skills. When I asked if they would trust them to do CPR on their moms, most said yes, and 1 said needs more practice. SO they practiced some more. Was it organized chaos, yes it was. But was it mostly run by them, yes it was. But what made me really proud was the SPL working with the second NSP we have. Long story short, I had to talk to the scout about why he was being transferred from his patrol to the 2nd NSP: we want him to be their TG. This was when the patrols had to come up with menus for our lock in in 3 weeks. He really did an outstanding job working with them and helping them learn the process. I had to laugh watching him because I should have known that he could do the job.

Again I am not trying to pick on the LDS units, and I know of non-LDS leaders , some of whom ARE trained (heck I trained one of them), who don't care how the program is suppose to be run, but do what THEY want to do. The real challenge is turnover. You need stable adult leadership in order to have a good program.

With no offense intended to LDS units, one of the challenges I've read about, heard, and experienced as both a DE and district volunteer , is that the leaders are not volunteers but "called" by the bishops, they do not have the proper training, expereince, or level of commitment that non-LDS units have. I had instances where I am trying to track down who the leaders actually are because the bishop has changed them, but the paperwork from council has not caught up and I have no contatc info. I remember playing phone tag for a month one time trying give out Cub Scout Day Camp info. The pack changed CMs about 3 times since recharter, and my contact at the church couldn't even keep up. One good thing, the LDS church recognizes this challenge, and I beleive is now stating that BSA leadership callings are for 2 years minimum. Grant you, you are still getting your feet wet, but it is an improvement.

SSt3rd, LDS troops do things a little differently since they incorporated Scouting into their youth ministry back when you had to be 12 to be a Scout. When a youth turns 11, the officially become a Boy Scout with BSA, but they cannot do camp outs until 12 with the LDS troops. So 11 years olds have an ASM who deals just with the 11 year olds, they meet and do their own activities until 12, then do stuff with the troop. Hopefully things will change in some regards with the new Cub Scout program. Now going camping is going to be required to advance from what I have glanced over.

Agree with LeCastor, don't beat yourself up, but follow your conscious. I've met functional alcoholics, but you got to be 110% on your toes when you got responsibilites for youth. Heck I remember working day camp after I had surgery, and I wouldn't take my prescription pain killers because they were narcotics and may affect me. Took 4 advil instead.

Has the Scout asked the SM why he can't have the cards? I'd have the scout bug the heck out of the SM at every single meeting until the cards are given. If memory serves, since the bishop calls LDS leaders, Scout may need to chat with the bishop about the issue.

Mash, Tough call as I know there may, stress MAY, be negative repurcussion on you. BUT I think you needed to go up the chain and tell yur suspicions. First time I had an incident like this was in the UK where some some Dutch Scouters were lighting up marijuana cigarettes. Told the "camp warden" (what they call the rangers over there), and it was handled appropriately and without any repucussions on my part. Apprently it's a common situation since the Dutch forget that marijuana is illegal outside of Holland at the time. But the second time was dealing with summer camp staff and alcohol. I became persona non grata at camp after reporting the incident. Luckily I lived 20 minutes away from camp, so I essentially commuted to my camp staff position the rest of the summer. What really ticked me off was that I got no support from my immediate boss on the matter. Would I do it again, even knowing the repurcussions, ABSOLUTELY!

I wanted to add this. I know of some camps that have used specific "paper pushing" MBs to their advantage, namely Journalism, Photography, and Cinematography. What the camps have done for journalism is have the scouts do the camp newspaper that week at camp. Nights were involved, but that can be attributed to how actual newspapers work. Yes the camp newpaper varied in quality from week to week, but it worked. Photography and Cinematography were done to basically to get a closing campfire done, showing events of the past week. A plus was that a compilation of the work was used by the OA for camp promos the next year.

Stosh, I know some folks hated the Skill Awards from 1972 - 1989, but I grew up in that period and liked how they allowed you to focus on one skill at a time, mastering the skills. I also liked how there was tenure requirements between T-2-1. For me there was no pressure to learn those skills to advance ASAP. It allowed us time to rally master those skills. Also sometimes you can learned "extra" stuff. I know I learned extra skills that, while not advancement oriented, were still important. And I admit, when first aid is scheduled, I like providing "extra" skills. Best example would be tonite. I have access to epi-pen trainers and I have an expert giving the lessons tonite on that. Why you ask, because the Scout teaching epi-pen use does have sever allergic reactions, and folks have had to use the epi-pen he keep on him twice during meetings when he was a Cub. So I consider that skill extremely important, even if it isn't in the requirements. 2Cub, Agree with ya 110% on getting rid of the no retesting policy. G2A states that the badge represents what the scout CAN do, not what he has done. How can we know a Scout can do something if we cannot ask him to show us how it is done. Now the following may be anathema, but I will say it anyway. In regards to First Aid skills, if the Scout is not able to do the most current version of first aid, but can do the previous version correctly, I'll cut him some slack. Whye especially since First Aid is a big deal for me? Because every 5 years, first aid and CPR goes through revisions. And I've noticed a bit of lag time on getting BSA publications up to speed ont he most current techniques. FYI this year are the 2 big conferences that review first aid and CPR, so expect some changes to comeout in the Oct-Nov. time frame, and new AHA and ARC books to come out in March-Aug 2016. On a similar note, I say this: DO AWAY WITH FIRST AID MERIT BADGE ALTOGETHER, INCORPORATING THE SKILLS IN THE T-2-1 REQUIREMENTS AND CREATE A WILDERNESS FIRST AID MERIT BADGE. (caps are emphasis, not shouting.) It chaps my hide that national no longer acknowledges the abilities of scouts to do first aid in a wilderness setting unless they go to an outside agency and get certified. For me, the requirement for WFA certification in order to do HA trips is all the proof of a problem with advancment. And I agree, never heard the term 'Eagle Mill" until way after 1989. In fact I don't think I heard that term at all until 1996 or so, which is well after FCFY was implemented. What I would like is MBCs to make sure the scouts truly mastered the skills they are working with the Scout on. I personally know that it can be upsetting to both parent and Scout to learn he didn't truly earn a MB. My son "earned" a MB at a MBC that after talking to him about, I discovered he actually didn't earn. He was rather upset at first that I told him I would not submit the paperwork to the SM until he did the requirements. But after talking to him, he understood, and had a blast doing the missing MB requirements.

My wishes for 2015: 1) That my son the SPL continues to amaze me with the performance of his duties 2) That I am able to be able to attend the full week of summer camp with the troop. In-laws shocked the heck out of me with their Christmas gift of a family vacation to see the Mouse, and Harry Potter, this summer. I'd rather go camping than an amusement park. 3) That the troop's SM will be in good health until more adults can help him out. 4) That my son's troop continues on their path to be a Scout-led, "Hiking and Camping Troop" with a little bit of boating added in 5) That younger sons can go and have a good time at CSDC this summer. My fears for 2015: 1) Something happens to the SM before folks can get in place to help him. When I heard he was in the ICU, I was scared. 2) CSDC will be a mess since they have not even started planning it yet at the council level and our district's CSDC director dropped out of scouting. 3) I can find a replacement for me as a DL for youngest son's den. 4) I am not able to make the entire week of summer camp. 5) My son the SPL will get overwhelmed. Yes this fear is still there, but it is lessening every time I see him in action.

I went to summer camp in the 1980s, and MBs were a part of the program. I am going to stress PART OF THE PROGRAM, because summer camp was so much more than the MBs: free shooting, boating, swimming, goofing off staff manhunt and watermelon bounties, camp olympics, night time programs, etc. MBs tended to be outdoor oriented, and with few exceptions they were no daily nighttime classes except astronomy (go figure ) Sure you may need to spend a nite doing the Wilderness Survival overnighter, or may need to spend a few hours doing CPR certification, but nights were meant for the various programs and goofing off. Maybe it was just my SM, but always recommended leaving one afternoon class period free fro free swim, boating, or shooting. Only year I didn't do that was when I did the camp's "HA" program, and left the main camp Monday morning for a week of backpacking and trailblazing. Unfortunately some parents and leaders are focused on the number of MBs their Scouts get rather than on how much fun the Scouts have. So some camps have become MB factories. I remember the last time I was teaching a MB on camp staff, and I had leaders complaining because their scouts didn't complete the MB. Well when A) you put more people into the class than can be handled by the instructors and B) you got Scouts who don't want to be in the class causing problems, but you can't kick them out b/c they paid for the class, you will have issues.

Several troop's in my district use the neighboring council's summer camp as it is approx. 45 minutes away compared to the home council's camp that is 1.5 hours away. My pack and troop will use the neighboring council's scout shop as well since I work in the same town as the office. We've had folks from out of council attend our IOLS training and UoS.

Sorry for so long to respond. Been crazy around here. Thankfully JP posted and I saw it. One ring is has a dance area diameter of approximately 45 feet and total dance arbor of 55 feet. that's home council Council to the south of us has a dance area diameter of approximately 75 feet and total diameter of 100 feet. Hope it helps

I was a Scout when "Operation First Class" came out in 1989. I saw the stats then (and the stats were based on advancement with time requirements between T-2-1), and made this comment then and still do now: the stats do not tell you anything about the troop's program; if you are in a "hiking and camping troop," you have the opportunity for advancement. (all caps, underlining, etc are emphasis and not shouting). I've seen troops that do not focus on FCFY, and they are the ones that are the most active. I know of a troop that is VERY advancement oriented, lots of Scouts in it are Star and above in less than 2 years. BUT they have had 2 new scouts quit, and 2 new scouts transfer within 12 months of joining. Reason for this is the lack of outdoor program. Their meetings are MB classes and playing basketball in the gym. Their version of the "Patrol Method" is the SM appointing leadership positions, including PLs and SPL, in order for everyone to have a chance in a leadership role and avoid "cliques" (SM's word, not mine). When they camp, it's family camping or MB weekends. But acording to the JTE they are a "Bronze" unit. I know of another troop that advancement is not the focus. In fact they have guys in the troop 3 years now that are still Tenderfoot. Why? They don't care about advancement, and are a little afraid of the SM as "his bite IS worse than his bark" All they want to do is have fun. Now all of a sudden, they are focused on getting First Class, but I think winning the Philmont Lottery has now motivated them. Funny thing about this troop is this, after seeing their Scouts in action working on first aid, I'd take them doing first aid on me over the Scouts in the first troop. Their standard is "One and Done," whereas the second troop goes over first aid every year because they beleive it is that important. As for Merit Badges and the T-2-1 ranks, I'm an old fogey and believe that First Aid Merit Badge should be required for First Class rank like it was in the 1979-89 timeframe. I vividly remember just Crossing over to Boy Scouts, and encountering a first aid situation that I was put in charge of because the adult who first responded knew I was a Scout and expected me to know first aid that he didn't know. THANKFULLY it was something covered in Readyman and I was able to help. I am also a BIG proponent of getting either getting Swimming MB or having Instructional Swim while in the T-2-1 ranks. Ok done ranting. Got get the epi pen trainers that one of the Scouts will be using, and the mannaquins and AED trainers that I need to use fror Monday's First Aid training.

'99, I feel for ya. I was in a similar situation in that I helped get the troop started, trained its leaders, and worked with the Scouts via MBs and OA. When oldest was able to become a Cub, we visited their CO's pack first because of the troop, and oldest joined the pack. Between him joining the pack and crossing over, new SM and committee tookover. That changed the entire dynamics of the troop, and the troop took a 180 degree turn. The camping they do, when they do camp, is either family camping or merit badge weekends. They love cabins. Before the new SM took over, they had folks staying around until they went off to college. Now they "Eagle and leave." Out of the 5 Cubs who joined them last year, 2 quit completely, 2 have now transferred to my son's troop, and only 1 remains. And they have had a bunch quit or transfer to other troops. I admit I am a scouting addict and love the outdoors. I was fortunate in that the troop my son joined is an outdoor oriented troop. That is what saved my sanity.

Mixed emotions on this one. On one hand, I like the idea of this guy being gung ho and working on advancement. And from mine and others expereinces, I know how hard it can be active while in HS. So I like it that he's doign a good bit before HS. On the other hand, I do have some concerns. 1) does this scout really know his stuff? Does the badge he wear "represents what he CAN DO (emphasis), not what he has done? 2) Is he enjoying himself and having fun? Now from what I'm hearing, he knows his stuff, but is encountering new experiences in the area of leadership. I can deal with that. Sometimes leaders have to fail in order to learn. Our job is to make sure A) no one gets hurt and B) guide and mentor so they learn from the mistakes and grow. Now if he isn't having fun, that would really concern me and I would want to know why. Is he in the situation some folks are in, i.e parents are pressuring him to get Eagle? I've encountered to many folks getting Eagle because of the parents, or grandparents, then getting out as soon as they have their ECOH because they were not having fun. And I do know of 13, 14 year old Eagles who hang around a spell because they are having fun. Grant you you sometimes have to help them find opportunties for them i.e. "Hey you know Mr. Smith's troop? They got a few spots open for Philmont?"

Does the "reinstatement fee" include the dues for this year and next year? I was in one lodge that, if you tried to register, say for 2015, but were not registered for the current year, they would tack on the current year's fee.

I wanted to give you and update. First month has been a learning expereince for my son as plans had to be changed. But he's learned and overcame. Our campout for this month had to be postponed because only 4 scouts could make it. Long story short, schools have put mandatory stuff on the weekend, specifically concerts and choruses, that knocked out a bunch of the Scouts. Instead we worked on the trailer we just purchased. So we did have an activity, and the camp out will be in March now. He took up the mantle of leadership by having the Scouts not working on the trailer at that moment doing advancment work while they waited. Ok so he wasn't leading the troop from the front on the running, he was third in line, but he got them working on advancement. Yep, he did great. The troop conducted Arrow of Light and Crossover Ceremonies. For someone who is very self conscicous about speaking he did a tremendous job. Did he get hung up on a word or two, yes he did. Could you hear him and understand him from where I was sitting way in the back, yes you could. And I admit, I had a tear or two in my eyes when I watched him do his part, and again when I watched the video of it later that night. Yep, he did great. Now I admit I worked with him some preparing for the the PLC and planning the next 2 months worth of meetings. But he did the bulk of the work. He came up with what was to be done, how long, and who was doing it. However I was bad in typing up the agenda and emailing it to the SM for approval. One thing SWMBO is adamint about is that he does not have an email account. Yep he did a good job, and I was bad But last night was what made me extremely proud. It was his first PLC that he was completely in charge of, with little interference from the adults. And our interference consisted mostly of, "What date did you pick for that camp out?"; "Do you think a different weekend may be better since Mr. X won't be able to go?" "How are you going to raise money for the gear you need?"; and "Gentlemen, why don't we stick to the agenda as that topic is coming up?" The PLC liked how he assigned instruction duties to the scouts, how he thought about who should go into our second NSP (the 5 new guys from the 2 packs that just crossed over and out transfer Scout), and who their Troop Guide should be. The ASPL did ask a few questions and made a few comments that were incorporated into the planning. But it appeared that the ASPL was impressed with how my son thought through the process, and stated several times, "That makes sense." Again I was extremely proud of him last night. So in retrospect I think I may have made a mountain out of a molehill.

FYI E94-a1 January 17 Webcasts on the New Cub Scouting Program A new Cub Scouting program is launching June 1, 2015, that will be more fun and exciting for boys, and easier to implement for unit leaders. To ensure you are ready to make the transition, a number of webcasts will be hosted on January 17 to outline the coming changes, how to prepare, and when resources will be available. Cubmaster Webcasts Saturday, January 17, at 8 a.m. (Central), or Saturday, January 17, at 3 p.m. (Central) Den Leader Webcasts Saturday, January 17, at 9:30 a.m. (Central), or Saturday, January 17, at 4:30 p.m. (Central) LDS-Specific Considerations* Saturday, January 17, at 11 a.m. (Central), or Saturday, January 17, at 6 p.m. (Central) * It is recommended that those interested in the LDS session view one of the role-specific sessions first. Although the content will be geared to the roles listed, anyone with an interest in learning about the new Cub Scouting program is welcome to attend. The sessions will be recorded for later viewing. It's easy to attend! Just navigate your Internet browser to http://www.livestream.com/bsanationalcounciland you are ready to view the webcast! As always, for more information on the new Cub Scouting program, please go to www.scouting.org/programupdates. Help spread the word about the webcasts to ensure others are ready for the new Cub Scouting program!