Eagle94-A1

Recording stories is a good one. This may or may not be appropriate, you gotta know the individuals involved and their view on the matter. Have some type of ceremony where you thank him for all he's done. A little "roasting" to make it light hearted and fun may be in order. But again, you gotta know your audience. For me, I would not mind the funny stories.

I'm sorry to hear that. What are some ideas that the PLC want to do? What about any troop alumni? When an active and beloved UC passed away, we had Scouts perform as a color guard. Also had a former youth of his on the unit level give a brief eulogy on him and his love of Scouting.

RS, I too would like to know who wrote it. My personal favorites include the camp museum is more important than the camp fire ring. Out of all of the camps I've been to, only 1 has had a museum that I can remember. And that was Youlbury International Scout Campsite in the U.K. And considering it's the oldest continually used Scout camp in the world, I think it's justified. Another U.K. camp I was at was in the process of building one. I got to look at their collection of WSJ patches they were going to display. They had originals from Arrowpark up to Korea. SM, The issue I have is that no where in the instructions does it say that a camp does not need certain structures. And it has been reported anecdotally that camps have been shut down as a result of the NCAP, irregardless of usage stats.

Stosh, Letting the boys pick their own patrols is what I'm talking about. Some folks say that all new scouts MUST be put into a NSP; all Scouts over a certain rank ( I keep hearing First Class) MUST me in "Experienced Patrols," etc. The youth have little to no input into the matter. One thing I liked about my troop growing up, every 6 months when elections occurred, we got the chance to switch patrol IF WE WANTED TO (all caps emphasis) I admit, my troop is guilty this. When folks join, they go to a NSP, or as the case is now the 2nd NSP. When they hit First Class, they automatically move into a different patrol. We don't have a Venture patrol yet because we don't have the age or expereince. Only good thing the adults did in the situation above IMHO is saty out of the way and let the PLC decide how they were going to divide the 14 new scouts into the two NSPs. All of the Scouts who crossed over or transferred into the troop became the 2nd NSP. They left the current NSP alone minus one Scout who was about to go to the "experienced" patrol. Adults suggested appointing him troop guide, but SPL was adamant in not appointing him troop guide, but giving him a chance to run for PL since "being voted PL would mean a lot to him. If he doesn't get elected PL, then appoint him TG."

Tahawk. My comment was in regards to how some folks think you have to do everything the exact way BSA states in the current literature. But sometimes, in some situations, the current BSA program materials will not work, and that you do need to use ideas from older BSA materials. Mixed aged patrols, which is not discussed in the current literature but is in older literature, was the example I've given. Having youth sign off on advancement requirements is another example I can give. My only worry is is units that do not use the patrol method. As for clear communications form national, only time will tell.

Yes, adaptable is a better word. But "Semper Gumby" sounds so much better. Agree with you. I like to call being a SM is an art, not a science. There is a multitude of factors involved in scouting: from resources, abilities of leaders, abilitiies of scouts, CO support, loctaion, ad nauseum. Every troop is different. Unfortunately I've met folks who think that what is expressed in the current BSA literature IS the only way of doing it, even if it will be detrimental to the program in some situations. And if you tell them otherwise, it's blasphemy. There are some folks who don't realize that there are a variety of ways, all legit, to deliver the program. Take the entire New Scout Patrol, Expereinced Patrol, Venture Patrol set up of today. I've met folks who have told me you cannot have Mixed-Aged Patrols because it is not in BSA literature. Yet for the first 62 years of the BSA,, that is how it was done. Then for the next 17 years, you had Mixed-Aged Patrols and the Leadership Corps. it wasn't until 1989 that NSPs and the current format came out, and many troops still ran the old way, because for them NSP didn't work as well as Mixed-Aged patrols.

Here's my $.02 worth. 1) There is no need for an SPL unless you have 2 or more patrols. SPL is just that: the SENIOR patrol leader. If you only have 1 patrol, then you only have 1 PL. 2) I do belive the unofficial motto of the BSA is "SEMPER GUMBY" OR "ALWAYS FLEXIBLE." One of the most important things I learned in Scouting is that sometimes the best made plans fall apart, and you sometimes have to think "on your feet" or "outside the box" to solve problems. Best example I can give is finding out our of our camping gear was destroyed the night before we were taking Webelos on a campout. We really thought on our feet that night to prevent cancelling that camp out! 3) In regards to patrols working together, if the situation calls for it, then I am for it. Best example I can give on this is my son's troop at the moment. They have 1 "expereinced" patrol, and now 2 NSPs. PLC has the "experienced" patrol members working with the NSPs members during the instruction period. 4) Sometimes the higher up the food chain you get, the you remember about being at the bottom. Best example is some of the pros I've met and worked with. They forget that every "number" is a youth that we are making an impact on. 5) Also in regards top national, sometimes they talk to the wrong "experts." Instead of going to folks in the field and getting their thoughts and opinions, the consult outside experts who don't have a clue as to what Scouting really is. I saw a lot of that when I worked for supply: folks coming up with crazy things to sell that have little to no practical purpose for being sold. BUT in regards to 5 national is slowly getting better, and I give them credit for that. When the info came out that ALL Cubs needed to switch to the new requirement as of June 1 2015, folks at national did listen to us in the field and make the option for those current Webelos to continue using the current AOL requirements. 6) In regards to "eating our own," I know in my own case I am tired and frustrated at some of the things I am hearing and seeing from new leaders, especially ones that I helped train. Especially right now. The leader that I planned ITOLS around and told me "it's too cold to camp" is now posting about how it's perfect camping weather right now.

Qwazse, THANKFULLY that's the case with our two camps. One reverts back to the family ( who will turn the property into "McMansions" like the ones that are currently being built around the camp). The other camp goes to a local university. But I do know of one instance where the SE talked a trust into donating ownershipof the camp to the council. Within 3-6 months of getting the deed, he had the camp sold off. Sad thing is, the camp that all the money was sunk into ended up getting severely damaged by a hurricane. That camp's damage was so bad, an oil company was able to make the case that the land was no longer of value, and got emminent domain used to install a pipeline smack through the camp. SO that camp is completely useless now. So the scouts lost 2 camps within a year or two.

RS, In 2012, national decided tho create the National Camp Accreditation Program (NCAP) to standardize all scout camp across the national. Here are some links about the NCAP Main link to overall program http://www.scouting.org/Home/OutdoorProgram/CampAccreditation.aspx Camp Facilities Evaluation Tool http://www.scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor%20Program/pdf/430-085.pdf While I do beleive that camps need to be maintained, not every scout camp needs to meet those standards IMHO. My council has some primitive camps that have minimal structures on it. They do not need welcoming centers, dining halls, etc.

Hedge, there are a lot of different variations on wilderness survival that I've encountered. Some variations have folks only using survival kits. some make some accommodations, specifically sleeping bags. When we did the trips with Webelos, we took it relatively easy on them, and the adults that wanted to got to stay in tents . One of the ones I liked was a "crash site" done at a summer camp and everything needed was provided by the camp staff, if they could find it After waiting about 30 minutes for contraband to appear on the amnesty blanket, the scouts were taken to the site where they "crashed." Some stuff was strewn all over the place for easy collecting. Some stuff was "hidden" a ways. Those poor guys sufffered all kinds of calamities that nite: earthquakes, snake bites, etc etc. rteally put them through their paces. One thing NOT to do is make actual,visible air to ground signals. First time the MBC at summer camp did the experience above, he made the scouts make visible Air to ground signals. State troopers in a chopper saw it and landed to find out what was wrong.

Don't burn out, and keep focus on who is more important, your son and his den. I'm in a similar boat; TCDL for the youngest, troop committee with oldest, CSRT commish, and dist. committee.

Wilderness Survival Weekend Building shelters, utensiless cooking and having FUN! My troop growing up turned this into an annual event with Webelos coming to camp with us. Long story short, our gear got destroyed and we found out the nite before the Webelos Overnighter. Adapt, Improvise. Overcome.

WELCOME TO DA FORUMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I to am at a loss ... SQUIRREL!

If they do things the same way as in the past, you'll be getting a letter in the near future about more specifics. Every camp school is different. First one I went to for being C.O.P.E. Director was a week long, at a scout camp, and we were in tents, eating in a dining hall, etc. Classes were either under a shelter or on the C.O.P.E. course. Second one I went to was for CSDC administration, was 4 days, and at a conference center. We stayed in cabins/dorms, selpt in bunk beds, ate in the conference center's dining room, and spent a good bit of time indoors in conference rooms.

Fred, If an existing Webelos doesn't get his Webelos Badge by May 31st, they have to use the new AOL requirements, doing the 7 adventures, to earn their AOL. And from one of the myriad of forms I've seen, AOL adventures are in the Webelos book.

While there were several interesting things that occured last nite, one is relevent to this topic. As most of you may know, the troop I'm with is young, and is slowly moving to patrol method. One of our troop guides "recquisitioned" his dad's copy of the Scouting and read the article. Asked me if I read it and I did say yes, but he noted my wariness of the article. He asked me, "You don't think the article is good?" And I told him, "I don't think the article goes far enough." T-11 days to ITLS-T!

My troop never used blue cards, so we used photocopies of the Boy Scout Requirements Book and had them initial each requirement , or sign off saying completed.

The patrol method is suppose to be "organized chaos" because it give the scouts a chance to fail and learn in a safe environment. Only time I encountered "well oiled machines" were those troops that are either A) 100% adult led or B) have been around so long and have older scouts who pass on their knowledge to the younger Scouts. Some of the problems I've seen with 100% adult led were 1) folks Eagle and leave and 2) once the leader steps down, the troop folds. In regards to young troops, yep you may need to model what the expectations are, and you definitely need to work with the SPL. I know when my 11 year old son was elected SPL and was at his first PLC as SPL, the SM did take over the meeting when my son failed to do his job of running it. BUT he also said, "[sPL], I just showed you how a PLC is suppose to be run. I expect you to run the next one." Three weeks later my 11 year old ran the entire PLC meeting on his own with only a few minor interruptions from the adults. "Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!"

While there may be a lot of "old fogeys' who could not keep up with the "yutes," I know quite a few who can and do. One of the most feared, as well as most loved, staffers was this crusty old retired Marine who did the First Year Camper program growing up. While I did not have him my first year at camp, I did encounter him for my religious award BOR. Firm but fair. Could chew you out and make you feel 2 inches tall without raising his voice. But when you passed muster with him, made you feel 10 feet tall and proud. He kept us with us "youngins" on staff. In fact I think working staff kept him young. And he made inpact in my council. When he died, we had folks flying in from all over to pay their last respects.

Qwazse, Actually the photo that photo is incorrect. The BA22 syllabus shows the "Brownsea" Strip going between the unit numbers and the CSP. Here's one link to that shoes the proper placement. And if I can find the syllabus, I post that. http://www.hcst.net/~edelmann/brownsea22.html

Qwazse, I do not like the fact that adults get their 3rd and 4th bead for staffing NYLT. My sentiments is that the adult NYLT staffers should get the same recognition as the youth NYLT staffers.

You know, the 3rd ed. SMHB written by Green Bar Bill covers the situation where you have a new troop, or are instilling the patrol method in en established troop. Don't have it in my possession, but if memory serves, the SM and ASMs actually run things for the scouts, modelling how things are suppose to be done, and then over a 6 month period, the scouts take more and more resposnibility, while the adults start stepping back more and more. By the end of 6 months, Scouts are completely running things. SM models the job of SPL or PL depending upon size of the troop, and the ASMs model PLs or APLs, again depending upon the size of the troop. I want to say the adults do everything for a month or so, then slowly start stepping back. I will say this, it's hard letting go, even if you know better. Trust me on that one