Eagle94-A1

You are going to laugh, but we incorporate them into the Wolf den. We don't get a lot of Tigers because A) we don't do Kindergarten round ups and B) usually the parents can't take off. most we ever had was 2 Tigers and partners, and 1 was the BS RT commissioner, and the other was the CS RT commissioner, among my other positions.

1) Yes we use them. Adults mostly, but one patrol has a a cook who loves his DOs, so he has used his personal one. 2) Depends. If I have access to wood, i do use it. But I mostly use charcoal. 3) Patrols. Only time we ever "troop" cooked was demonstrating liquid fuel backpacking stoves. 4) #10 More later

Still use the three pot method: one Hot soapy container for cleaning, one Medium for rinsing, and one Cold with bleach for sterilizing. One patrol at least may be changing to the Philmont method of cleaning since they are going next year. I beleive they using boiling water to sterlize before using, cook, eat, clean in hot and sterlize a 2nd time before drying an putting away. Someone recommended buying professional grade sanitizing tablets that food industry uses. May try and go that route. For Mozartbrau, 10th is cool. I'm more of a "Dandy" fan with the "Hobo" a close 2nd. I wonder how much ad libbing went into Pertwee's performance since he worked with MI6 in WWII.

I sure hope that he didn't hear that at the SM Specific I taught because I sure didn't say that. What is in the literature is that the SM is the final authority on who can and cannot sign off on requirements, and that he can delegate the ability to sign off that to anyone he choses, Scout or Scouter. If he doesn't want a Scouter or Scouter to sign off on requirements, that is the SM's perogative. But I hope he has a darn good reason to no allow the Scout to sign off if his peers can. For me that is a good time for a SMC, but I digress. In the past I've been invovled in troops that are like Stosh's in which the PLs can sign off on requirements up to their rank or a non-PL with the approval of the SPL. I remember being a regular patrol member teaching First Aid Skill Award with the SPL's approval so I could meet that FA MB requirement back in the day. And as Stosh mentioned, first time I taught withthe ability to sign off, I asked the SPL for advice. Our older scouts, called the Leadership Corps at the time, could sign off on all the requirements up to First Class. They were Star and higher, served a at least 6 months, usually longer, as a PL, and served as troop level officers: Scribe, instructor, QM, etc. Most of the troops I've been in do not allow Scouts to sign off on Star and above becuase the skills learned are MB skills requiring a MBC. The other requirements involve leadership, Scout Spirit, etc, usually the SM's domain

PM me as I may still have my files.

DO BELEIVE HIM AS I SECOND IT! ( and yes that is me screaming at the top of my lungs saying don't do more than one job.) I was a DL and CSDC PD (doig both the PD and CD work) and it is a PITA! did it for the first 2 summers 3rd summer I was a TCDL, but then when the CSDC director got fired, I got recrutied to be PD again. And I was a DL and CSRTC. burnt out was an understatement.

As 2cub said, you will have a blast. I concur with his recomendations. My day camp had some issues. My day camp director didn't share anything, and kept doing the same olf thing over and over and over without ever updating it. Program was poor and needed revamping. Since I have prior day camp and summer camp staff expereince, including a NCS for COPE. i essentially came up with a rough outline of what I wanted to do. The staffer assigned to my den was PHENOMINAL and looked over what I put together and changed at nite after the day's sessions. in another post, you aid you are doing Knights theme. PM me as we did that theme and I beleive I still have that information on my computer.

Lodge growing up had ceremonies after dark. "Dinner" for everyone was crackers and cheese. After the Ordeal Ceremony, all Ordeal members left and had a true dinner. Brotherhood and Vigils stayed until after the Brotherhood Ceremony was completed before we had a true dinner.

No really standardized way to do it. You got to know you SM, and have support when you talk to him about steppign down. I do not suggest doing what my CC wanted to do with my son's SM: tell point blank he's fired and now on the troop committee. I know, CC can't do that, but COR is SM's son, and although he knows it time for dad to step down, he doesn't have the heart.CC said he would handle it as he and dad are good friends. June 1 aint coming soon enough for the SM elect ( he's still CM), and June 6th ain't coming soon enough for me ( when I change from MC to ASM with the troop and DL to MC with the pack.)

IMHO, only time this shuld be allowed is Webelos looking at troops. I also do think that the Webelos should be buddied up with a Boy Scout and involved. otherwise no.

Were the Philmont Staff in the green Explorer/Venturing uniform shirts or the tan and green shirts? I ask because Explorers/Venturers were able to wear the Eagle patch on the pocket until 21. It was "interesting" when one of my national supply coworkers and I wore our green and grey Venturing uniforms when we worked summer camp staff. As a 19 year old Eagle, He was was legitimately allowed to wear his badge on his green shirt. Boss had a coniption fit as we MUST follow the Insignia Guide, or whatever they call it these days, and though that he MUST wear the knot. Had to show her in the IG that yes he could wear the Eagle and his AOL until age 21 in the green shirt. She even had a conniption fit about my jambo insignia, until I showed her pics of the CSE with Jambo insignia on. But when we were inthe standard khaki and green BSA uniform, we both wore our knots.

Eagle92 and Eagle94-a1 are the same person. If you remember the last time Scouter.com had trouble, I stopped coming here and forgot my original password. Was suppose to be Eagle92-a1, but I hit the wrong digit by mistake. Please feel free to end EAGLE92 active status.

In my honest opinion, I am walking a very fine line between "poaching" and being loyal to the individual Scouts and Scouting movement. Hopefully I am on the individual Scouts side of the line. You all know my situation. I got 2 Cubs Scouts in one CO's pack, but oldest is in another CO's troop. I let my oldest son make the decision where he wanted to go. I admit I guided him some, I knew what he wanted, a "hiking and camping troop" and knew what we could afford. So I took him to troops that met that criteria. The troop that is chartered by the Cub Scout pack I am in has major issues as I have discussed in various posts. Against my better judgement, I did recruit for them at a Boy Scout Round Up, encouraged my old den to visit them, etc. Heck I advised my son to not mention where he was going until the last possible moment because I did not want it influence my den. I've mentioned the results of that decision: the 3 boys I recruited at Round Up quit within 3 months and out of the 5 Cubs from my old den that went to them, 2 quit altogether and 2 transferred within 11 months. I try my best to be impartial. But it can be hard. We had a Webelos event this past weekend. We had several troop staff the even, and of course the troop with issues was not there. The folks in my pack know I am in another troop and since their boys will start looking at troop soon, wanted to know why my oldest went to the troop he did as well what is the issue with the CO's troop. I am not going to lie about the issues. While I hope and pray that the troop does another 180 and get back on course, it's been 4 years of issues. I honestly don't think a course correction is possible. But I also still encourage them to visit not only the CO's troop, but all troops in the district. I tell the parents that their sons needs to find the best fit because while all troops use the same program, each troop is unique. And they may not like one troop for whatever reason, but another troop may fit them like a glove. Now this is the part that may be the "poaching," but I try to talk about all aspects of the troop my son is in. Yes I talk about the 10 camp outs, week of summer camp, and the lock in we do. I talk about how we are not as "advancment oriented" but rather focus on giving the youth as many opportunities as possible. I also talk about some of the "negatives:" young troop with that is still growing into their own older Scouts ( this is the troop with an 11 year old SPL) , growing faster than expected, equipment issues, etc. But I also talk about the potential I see with the troop. The "older" guys wanted to do HA, and they got a spot for Philmont next year. Not only do I think that expereince will benefit them personally, I think it will benefit the troop as a whole. But again I talk about all of the troops in the district and encourage Webelos to visit any and all of them, and if possible camp with them Camping with a troop will make, or break as in my son's case with the CO's troop, the desire to join a troop.

Peri, Actually if what I was told is correct, SM decided to appoint leadership positions when son couldn't get elected PL. Now that he appoints all the PORs, Son has been a PL, TG, ASPL, and I think he is currently SPL.

Unfortunately BSA often has contradictory language in its various documents.

We did a canoe trip last year. this is what we did. 1) Swim tests for all. 2) 3 or 4 meeting to work on strokes, how to pack, etc. 3) Picked a nice, easygoing river to go on. 4) One of the ASMs went and check it out the week before the trip 5) TRIP TIME! Only complication was that it rained the week between the ASM's scouting expedition and the trip itself. The island we wre suppose to sleep on was underwater

Someone posted a comment about how we are working with "Raw Materials" and that Scouts living by the Oath and Law are the "Finished Product." I gotta agree with that. I attended an Eagle COH recently and was reminded of that. I was reminded that the Eagle was once a smart-alec know-it-all, who wanted to get Eagle and move on. That brought back memories of his AOL and Crossover Ceremonies. Nobody thought he would last long with his attitude. But over the past 6 years, the Eagle changed. He was molded and mentored.He was not focused only on getting Eagle and being done. He was having fun and giving back. He served on day camp staff for several years, and to be honest I completely forgot about the smart-alec, know -it-all that he was until it was mentioned at his ECOH. Today he is the OA chapter chief, a JASM in his troop and a member of the Venturing crew. My memory gets foggy with age, but that process of maturing happens with those who are really into Scouting. If I thought long and hard, I could probably give hundred of such examples of Scouts I've known over the years.

Only in name are they a troop. As you can guess, this is the problem troop I've discussed previously. The very sad thing for me is I know the struggle the original SM and 2 ASMs had getting it to be Boy-led. I helped train the SM, worked with the boys via MBs and OA, and mentored the SM. 5 years of getting it together, to the point where the troop almost didn't need the adults hanging around, only to have the new SM screw it up. And because the SM's son is the biggest troublemaker, ask anyone who is or has been in the troop except SM Dad, nothing is done to correct his behaviour. Sometimes I wonder if the "Peter Principle" is going on in regards to the scout, i.e. get him to Eagle so that he and dad can quit.

Someone asked how someone who does not live by the scout oath and law, yet advances affects others. In my experience is VERY negatively. The bullying, year-round soccer playing "scout" I mentioned previously is an example. As soon as my son heard that the scout was going to be appointed troop guide for my son's den when they crossed over, my son said he definately didn't want to join the troop since the troublemaker would be in charge of him.

Ok back. Up until about 7 years ago, the local scout camp where two of the three districts have their camporees was really neglected by the council PTB. Improvements were done by the individual troops and OA chapters. So troops would spend their own money making improvements on "their" campsites: water spigots, shelters, tables, fire rings, etc. Troops, and to a lesser degree their feeder packs, are very protective of "their" campsite. Best example of that would be the council level Cub Scout camp out at the camp where 1 pack refused to allow anyone to share "their" campsite. Thankfully it was the smallest one and could only hold one troop. Same with the primitive camp that is used for our council camporees. Council basically said if you wanted a water spigot, you either paid for everything involved in the process; or dig the trenches, lay the pipe, etc yourself.. So troops were assigned campsites within their district areas, and they paid in some manner to get the water spigots in place. People are very protective of their assigned areas. My troop folded for about 6 years, and a newer troop took over the campsite. When the troop was reestablished, they wanted the campsite that they paid for back. They were willing to allow the other troop to use the spigot, but since they paid for the water spigot, and went out the weekend prior to the camporee to prep the area (cut grass, kill ant colonies, and spray for ticks, etc) they were not willing to give the other troop the campsite. Unless they allow troops to stay in the areas they have maintained for all these years, I see issues there.

One of the issues we have is that on the Cub Scout side, the tight circle is essentially 3 people; the activities chair who has driven folks nuts with her micromanaging everything she is in charge of to the point she drives people away, and the Day Camp CD and PD who are trying to build and mend bridges whom the activities chair has upset. Webeloree is considered a Boy Scout event because A) lots of troops staff it B) recruiting tool for troops, and C) activities chair has no involvement with Boy Scouts. Still working on the benefits and disadvantages on the Boy Scout side of things. I thing that will be a major problem is campsite assignments at camporees, both on the district and council level. More on that in a bit.

What's a Troop MB Counselor? I thought all MBCs were district positions.

Slapper, 1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS!!!!! ( And yes, I am screaming at you in joy for finding us. ) 2) Must have been one heck of a good Crossover Ceremony your local OA did to get him interested in the OA already. For that I say your OA chapter did an AWESOME job! 3) I'd tell your son to focus on mastering the Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class Scout (T-2-1) skills before worrying about the OA. In order to be in the OA, you have to be First Class, have 14 or 15 days and nights of camping, including 1 long term camp (summer camp) 4) Also tell him to live by the Scout Oath and Law. His peers will notice and will elect him. BUT do not get discourage if he doesn't get in the first, heck even the second, time. I got in the 3rd time I was up for election. 5) For you, I'd focus on training. 6) Good luck!

My question to you is how do the athletes act when the coaches are not around? In my younger days I've been around student-athletes who acted just as bad as some of the Scouts, sometimes worse. Arrogant, egotistical, rules don't apply to me attitude, damaging property, causing fights, bullying, ad nauseum. Worse part of two jobs was dealing with the athletes. Do I see a spoiled brats in Scouting, yes I do. I also see them in everyday life in all endeavors,including sports. Heck the worse "scout" I know does soccer year-round in various programs. Sorry you feel that you cannot recommend Scouting. I'd pick Scouting over sports any day. Scouting allows youth a chance at becoming self-reliant, to do things, make decisions, lead, etc. Scouting allows youth to screw up in a safe environment so that you can learn from the mistakes. In sports, adults tell them what top do and how to do it. If you are not as good as others on your team, you get little to no chance to participate. And if you lose, sometimes the coaches go overboard with the "motivation" sessions IMHO.