Eagle94-A1

GBB recommended for new troops or troops getting back to the patrol method, that the Sm act mroe like the SPL to get the Scouts trained. He basically showed them how to do it. Over a 6 month period, he gradually stepped back from that role and started the Scouts onthe pacth to runnign everything. I am actyually thinking it may take 5 years to get it running. A good friend who started a troop took 5 years to get it where the boys were running things completely. Oldest son's troop is having some issues, but is boy run.

My thoughts. 1) While training is important, it is not the "be all, end all solution." I had some extremely knowledgable, extremely pro Patrol Method scouters AND SCOUTS (emphasis) teach ITOLS with me, and one of those staffers also did SM and ASM Specific. We had one gentlemen in both of those classes we taught, and 4 years later is STILL not using the Patrol Method. He also got a bunch of counseling and mentoring to boot. But " Scouting has to change with the times." 2) Someone mentioned "indoctrination" and talked about starting out in Cub Scouts. I second that as I have constantly talked about how the Patrol Method is "Organized Chaos" from the time my boys are Tigers. I've taken the Cubs to visit Boy Scout activities and see the chaos in motion. I constantly talk it up. And it's funny when a Webelos can tell you "They 're doing it wrong." 3) Mentoring by expereinced Scouters is another method that can help. We have a brand new, just Crossed Over WDL to ASM, and he sometimes has challenges adapting. I've had to have a conversation or three at various functions about how the boys need to work out the problem, don't get too stressed out about the situation, etc. I also told him to start noticing the little things, i.e. working together, dealing with each other, helping each other out, etc that slowly works it way out with a NSP. And he is catching on. 4) No troop will be perfect. Even Green Bar Bill used the SM as an SPL for training a new Scout troop or reinstilling the Patrol Method in an existing troop sections of the 3rd ed. SMHB. But he also had the troop cpmpletely boy-led in 6 months.

My council was the one that piloted the PWC at the Pamilco Sea Base. I honestly do not know all the details, except that it was a long, detailed, paperfilled process that had to go through national to be approved as a pilot program. I think it took over a year to jump through the hoops, but don't quote me on it. Now from one of the participants, when they got to do the PWC, it was a BLAST! but they had to go through a lot of classroom work before getting there.

At one point we had a fire ban in NC for so long that we had NSPs that didn't even know how to build one! And when we were able to get a firebuilding event at camporee ( It's good to have the firemarshall as an SM ) one 1 patrol was able to build the fire, cook the noodle, and tie it in a square knot! Even then, they could not do it in the 30 minutes allocated. It took them 31 minutes and they lost 10 points. My son's troop had a tradition, and the fireban stopped it. One meal HAD to be cooked over an open flame/wood coals. They stopped it for a while, and haven't started it back up yet.

We went out of council last year, the older Scouts decided on it. All of the Scout that wen loved it so much, they persuaded those who didn't go to go back this year. What the guys who have been to the local council and the OOC camps liked were the nite time activities, bikes allowed for travelling, BMX track, skateboard area, and the waterslide. All the guys who have only been ot the OOC camp loved the waterslide and BMX tracks. Now what I look for is a camp that doesn't focus solely on MBs. One ASM looks for a camp with poor wireless reception so work wont try an call him in on The other ASM last year wanted to go to a camp far enough away where he could delegate some duties to his associate pastor. Alas, he lost out as camp is 50 minutes away.

I still use it on occasion. i have a Whisperlite Int. so I'll burn anything.

We've been using RTs fand the suggestes matrials from national about the new program since January. Biggest complaint is that folks wanted the materials, at least the leaders' info, 2-3 months ago so they could plan the upcoming year. Especially the district activities that take a year to plan.

A bit of a spin off, but let's have some fun. Anyone read today's (5-6-15) Bryon On Scouting Blog and the ban on water guns unless you are shooting at non living targets and wearing eye protection? Sorry, but in my neck of the woods, water guns are used to keep Cub cooled down at day camp, and help out tremendously. And even with the water guns and other water cooling devices, we still had folks going home early due to heat exhaustion. Your thoughts?

Council camporee was this past weekend, and Wilderness Survival was the theme. Only complaints I heard were A) need more time to build shelters B) need to make sure other patrols do not move the geocaches to get to the first aid event, and C) want more time on the tomahawk toss range. Other than those complaints everyone had a blast.

He was probably to busy driving the Germans nuts on the continent. I read somewhere that just the rumor of him coming to the continent drove German counterintelligence nuts. I think there was a very good reason he was on the Operation Sea Lion hit list in WWII.

Stosh, Yes I'm referring to adult volunteers. Because in my neck of the woods, camporees are inter-patrol competitions and, at least from what I've seen, patrols need every member, or former member in my son's case this weekend, that is available to compete. Which is why I am for adults running camporee events; THE CAMPOREE IS FOR THEM! (emphasis) But I can see youth running events. Heck the OA runs the trading post at our district camporee, and at council camporee one chapter was running the tomahawk throwing event. Although those folks were the "G.A.S.ers" ( Gray Area Scouters age 18-20). Now our Webeloree has troops running individual events for the Webelos, so I know the youth are capable of doing the job. Now I do think the organizers should plan events with the youths' input, making the youth WANT (emphasis) to do them. I remember one year the camporee chief decided to turn the camporee into a MB weekend. VERY poor attendance as the Scouts wanted competition as opposed to classes. Thankfully the other adults that loved the MB weekend haven't been put in charge. As for SPL's attending RTs, I'm cool with that. Heck my son and 1 other youth were the only SPLs at a summer camp leaders' meeting that specifically stated the SPLs should attend. He offered input and was about to raise some 'cane when they were trying to limit archery to 13+ when the guidebook didn't have that age limit. Yep he and others in the troop want to be Robin Hood. I'd even go further. I think the OA Chapter Chief should attend district committee meetings. We had that going briefly, but one meeting turned nasty and the OA chief and his dad said "Never again." And no chapter chief has been back since. Again I agree with you that the district needs to listen. think they went overboard saying that you should run the event next year. And I admit I mixed Mozart's post with yours. His patrol being threatened with disqualification is appalling. In retrospect, I think my post may have been misinterpreted. Let me try again, as this is my philosophy running events. 1) I ALWAYS want to hear what the scouts think about activities. i want to know what they liked, what they didn't like, and what they would like to do. If we do not do what the Scouts want, then why will they come? 2) If there are problems I want to know about them ASAP. If I can fix the problem then and there, I am going to. Best example is when I didn't plan on Webelos fishing, and there was a mutiny. We were able to solve that that day. But sometimes a problem needs to be corrected for the next year. Example of that was the idea for 'Citizenship Class" where the Cubs practiced flag etiquette in preparation for doing the flag ceremonies. And sometimes folks need to think outside the box. Best one of that was a camporee chief who had arranged a Blackhawk from Fort Bragg to show up. 3) Biggest problem I've encountered is having enough staff to run events and make them good. I hate having folks have to wait for event to be done, or worse not having enough events due to staffing.More staffing equats to more opportunties for the Scouts. And it means less stress on the adults running the events.

Mozart, if the elecion is done properly, it's not a popularity contest. I too have seen worthy youth get not get elected. I saw a lot more of it under the old election rules. Heck I got elected on the third go. Part of the problem IMHO is that I am seeing more and more folks seeing it as a check off item to Eagle, and not as being selected as an Honor Camper as the OA is suppose to be, a Honor Camper society. I know I had one SM PO'd at me and the OA election team when it was discussed what being in the OA really ment. Half of those eligible decided to back out before the vote. SM said we shouldn't have said anything and just let them get elected without them knowing what we do.

Mash, Boating was restricted to district/council events which required either a NCS certified Aquatics Director, or an NCS certfied CS Aquatics Supervisor. Now, According to the Guide to Safe Scouting, page 24, "Cub Scout activities afloat are limited to council, district, pack, or den events that do not include moving water or float trips (expeditions). Safety Afloat standards apply to the use of canoes, kayaks, rowboats, rafts, floating tubes, sailboats, motorboats (including waterskiing), and other small craft, but do not apply to transportation on large commercial vessels such as ferries and cruise ships." What I find hillarious is that the second link's "AGE-APPROPRIATE GUIDELINES FOR SCOUTING ACTIVITIES" still states that boating activities are for the district/ council level only still. Guess they need to update the 2015 Age Appropriate Guidelines again.

You reminded me of a lodge I ran into at the 1994 NOAC. The Lodge straddled the GA-FL border and they went local. Depending upon which side of the border the ceremonialist lived on, he was either Creek (GA) or Seminole (FL)

As someone who has organized district level events, as well as complained about them too, I will say the following. 1) The Scouts need to be listened to as THEY ARE OUR CUSTOMERS! (EMPHASIS, OK may be a little shouting ) Telling htem to shut up or be DQed is outright wrong, and telling them to run the event next year going overboard a bit. 2) In addition to complaints, I suggest ways to improve the event be offered with the complaint. Sometimes people need others to think outside the box. I know someof the events I ran had problems, and I loved it when others gave me ideas to improve. 3) IF possible, offer to volunteer. I know it's not always possible. heck I've had to step back a lot due to family and/or unit issues. But in my expereince, a lack of volunteers is usually the cause of 99.99999% of the problems.

National OA is promoting lodges to look at local nations, whether current or historical, and to go local. Some lodges have been doing it for years,others are now starting to. I'm fortunate in that my home lodge growing up, and local lodge currently, have good relations with local Nations, and are working to make it more local specific. But from first hand experiencing it is a tough sell. Research can be a pain, but the internet has definitely made it a heck of a lot easier to access drawings and descriptions from the colonial period, and photos from Western Expansion period. I remember spending way to much time in archives back in the day. But there are times when you do need to go to them. So research is one reason for making a switch to local Native American nations is a tough sell. Another reason for the tough sell to convert is what I call "Hollywood factor." Even today there are stereotypes on what a native American should look like based upon the old westerns. heck even non-Plains Native Americans got into it. I have postcards date the 1950s, 60s, and 70s from such places a Cherokee NC and upper NY state where the Cherokee or Iroquois are dressed up as Plains Indians. I know my chapter chief wants to spend our regalia budget on going local, but we do not know how tough a sell we will be having at the next chapter meeting. A third reason for the tough sell is making authentic local regalia can not only be expensive, but time consuming, It's easier and cheaper to repair or replace individual regalia items than to essentially start all over. I spent over 3 years beginning through the process and it was never finished. Part of it was lack of time and money. Part of it was lack of interest. and part of it was the fact that some people had a stereotypical view, and didn't want to change. A fourth reason I've encountered is resistance form the local nations. As already mentioned, while some OA members and lodges do it correctly. unfortunately more do it incorrectly. Heck my lodge growing up had to disband the dance team at one point because they were doing so much stupid stuff, there were complaints from the local nation. We spent a lot of time developing a relationship with them, and took their concerns seriously. it took about 5 or 6 years to get a team restarted, and the Houma did have some reservations about helping us. It worked out very well long term.

Mozart, You'd be surprised at what councils allow and how BSA publications contradict each other. Look at the Guide to Safe Scouting. There is no mention of Cubs being able to do archery. Only that : "Archery, and Knife and Tomahawk Throwing These are approved activities for Boy Scouts and Venturers following the Sweet 16 of BSA Safety." So some lawyer could probably argue that Archery shouldn't be done by Cub Scouts at all since there is no mention of Cubs being allowed to do archery in. BUT as we all know, there is an Archery Belt Loop that will be around for approximately 3 more weeks. Plus it's taught at CS NCS programs as a viable activity. PLUS the current 2015 printing of the Shooting Sports Manual states Archery can be done at the Cub Level. So another lawyer could coutner claim it is allowed. As for tomahawks, my Cubs were doing it this weekend at a council event. I didn't have a May 1, 2015 copy of the G2SS available, so I thought that too changed. I know my Middle son ticked off my Oldest son's entire troop. He got 4/5 tomahawks on the target, with 2 bulls eyes, and would have gotten the 5th one in the target if he did't try and do a "Robin Hood." His 5th throw hit the handle of one of the bull's eyes and bounced off. He scored more points than the three patrols combined. Youngest and Oldest didn't do too shabby either. Both got 3/5 in the target, and Oldest did have a bull's eye. Ok, gotta find directions to make a tomahawk target for the backyard. I now have 2 tomahawks to throw, and the kids told me they'd rather throw tomahawks than go fishing!

Archery was restricted to district/council events since for as long as I could remember. And I don't remember Cubs being able to do tomahawks at all.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE CUB SCOUTS AND AQUATICS CHANGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( And yes that is me shouting with glee at you! ) When I first heard about the new Cub Scout Aquatics electives, I was stating that under the present G2SS policies, there would be no way that they could be earned except at those councils that provide the opportunity, which mine doesn't.

When I polled my Cubs, these were the overall ratings. 1) Fishing by a landslide. In fact the first year we did the Webelos Woods program, it didn't include fishing. THERE WAS A MUTINY! (emphasis.) They rather fish than do water games. 2) Archery. 3) BB Guns. Archery and BB Guns were close. Some of the boys own their own .22s so the bb guns aren't a big deal. AndI used a 3 man staff for each areas. 1, preferably 2, RSOs a 2nd adult with firearm expereince if I didn't have 2 RSOs ( we got a lot of cops in my district, ) and an older scout to help out.. That's in addition to any Adults working with the dens. We tried to have 5 stations going at a time.

I met one Sea Scout whose goal was to be a "Triple Eagle" by eanring Eagle, Quartermaster, and Silver. While he was registered in both a ship and a crew, the bulk of his work for Silver was done with his ship as the crew was the summer camp staff. I honestly do not know what to think.

Boy Scout leaders tend to look as me funny when I say being a Cub Scout leader is the hardest volunteer position I ever had. I've been a Cub leader for 6 years now, and I am burned out. I admit, part of it is my fault. In addition to being a DL, I've been day camp PD three times, day camp staffer an additional 3 times, and CS RT commissioner for 3 years. Part of it is the fact that Cub Scouts IS adult leader intensive. We do just about everything for the Cubs. And whereas Boy Scouts serves terms of office as PL, SPL, etc, Cub Scout leaders tend to be there until their sosn age out or quit. But part of the burn out is my district. There are two major district events, Cubmobile and Pinewood Derby. And for the past 3 or 4 years, the activities chair has kept changing the dates for these events. Once upon a time, the dates were written in stone: first Sunday in November for Cubmobile, last Saturday in January for PWD. Cubmobile keeps getting pushed further and further up to the point that this year it was originally scheduled BEFORE all the round ups were finished. We got them to push back the date, but there was a conflict with another district activity that same weekend that affected 2/5s of the Cubs. As for PWD, while we have asked to move back the dates to take advantage of the LOwe's Workshops ( the local store always wondered why they never had Cub Scouts attending the workshops, because they were done AFTER the PWD). we can live with the last weekend in January. BUT when you move up the PWD so far into January that A) the packs are just getting back from Christmas break, and B) the college students that work the event are not even nack in school, there are issues. Me and other pack leaders have felt like idiots because we plan stuff and then have to change at the last minute in order to participate with these traditional activities. On a positive note, I think the pack's leadership has finally come to the conclusion to "do their own thing" because of the new program. Because everything needs to be coordinated and a set pattern of 2 meetings, 1 Go See It, and 1 pack meeting are required for 7 months to earn rank, we will be ignoring district events unless it coincied with what we are doing. And my pack is not the only one. Sorry for the rant, but it was good to vent.

In all honesty, it depends. When I went to NCS, my camp was a dysfunctional one, despite having a CD for 20 years. While I had a lot fo expereince from summer camp staffing and assisting with day camps in the past, I learned a heck of a lot. Yes I read the books etc, etc. Some of the books were common sense. BUT some of the stuff was down right complicated and legalistic. The staff helped with that stuff. BUT the networking, exchanging of ideas, etc was the real benefit. Since I was the program director, I brought my rough draft of the program for camp for review and improvements. Again, my camp was dysfunctional, and I revamped it entirely.

Capotes and matchcoats?