Eagle94-A1

I know my troop growing up wanted all new adult leaders, except the 18-20 year olds, to be on the troop committee for at least a year before becoming an ASM. Part of it was so that they could get the training. But a part of it was getting them accustomed to the Patrol Method and troop culture. We had issues with new ASMs right out of Cub Scouts, so the troop went that route. Maybe it was a good thing since it gave the adults a chance to see the Patrol Method in action? Forgot to add, I second summer camp as THE #1 bonding event for a new scout. There is something about a week of camp that forces the bonding.

Beth, WELCOME TO DA FORUMS!!!!!!!! I've seen a similar situation where a female 3 beader went into an "Experts" session at PDL-1, and almost allof the guys in there looked at her as if she had a third eye. As for the devices, if you are active in your uniform, i.e. carrying merchandise, setting up displays and needing to l;ean into it, etc the pins can be physically uncomfortable. Especially if the backing falls off and you don't realize it. They are a figurative pain when the backings keep falling off. I eventually replaced all of my backings with rubber erasers. Also it's a pain to get one of my devices, my Sea Scout Device, as national has deviced to make it a restricted item.

I admit I wear knots. Some of it has to do with the "Bananana Republic Generals." Way back in the day, I had some folks who were not very scoutlike because I didn't have rows of knots. I was rather interesting because I could suggest something and be ignored. Yet when a friend of mine, who had his beads and multiple rows of knots, would repeat what i said about something, it was freaking brilliant. Depending upon the shirt depends upon which knots and how many. Only shirt that has everything is the commissioner shirt, my "camping" BS shirt has none. Sea Scouts khakis don't have knots, and my whites are officially limited knots to 6, The rest have anywhere from 4 to 8. Now the only time I wore the devices and stars was when I worked for national and had to. They were pain, literally and figuratively.

I know I went over AQUATICS last week at CS RT and the changes to boating for Cubs ( FYI Pack and Dens can now conduct boating activities, and not just row boat but sailboats, canoes, powerboats, and kayaks on flat water, as long as Safe Swim Defense and Safety AFloat are followed) One of the CMs asked me what the Scout Water Chant was and I had to tell him I had no idea as that is a new thing. When I read it, had to agree it was awfully complicated. The good news is that the Cub Scout Standard of "Do Your Best" applies. But like SP, I am also stepping down as a DL after 6 years, and moving to the pack committee. Not only am I burning out on Cub Scouts, but my son's troop needs help. Found out they are getting a new SM effective June 1, and with his work schedule he will need back up. So I'm switching from troop committee to ASM.

In my neck of the woods, you are required to have one "pre-camporee" camp out with the intent that you spend a month to two months prepping and have a practice campout before camporee competition. My son's troop spent 6 weeks prepping for camporee. They did a camp out with the intent to practice. With the exception of one district's camporee, usually the events are not known far enough in advance to have the PLC plan spending months. And unless it's all Scoutcraft, I'm dead set against it. Although I can see some accidental planning occurring. Like I mentioned, council camporee had a Wilderness Survival theme. We got the info in February. But guess what the PLCS decided to do in Novemebr of this year? Yep Wilderness Survival. So I can see a remote possibility of a troop "practicing"months in advance on events. As for "fixing" patrols, I am dead set against this. On the district level, one of the events is the annual uniform inspection, and it is a BIG DEAL. There have been times in the past where the uniform inspection decided who got first, second, and third. It is there that you can find the "fixed" patrol because they are wearing 2 or more patrol emblems, and have multiple folks with a PL patch. One year, a troop decided to have their Philmont crew compete as a patrol. Interestingly enough they had one of the lower scores in the competition.

In regards to the shop verifying you earned something, it may also depend on how well they know you. When I worked for national supply, I was suppose to see proof that you earned restricted items like knots. But sometimes folks I knew that had earned the item requested, so I wouldn't ask for proof since I knew they had it. I.e. was at the ceremony, heard about the ceremony, saw the newsletter article, etc. Only time I ever sold something to someone with out proof was the Heroism Award knot. I knew what the camp director was doing, buying a uniform for our camp chaplain. The chaplain did earn it as a youth, was even featured in Boys' Life Scouts in Action, and the CD and entire staff wanted the chaplain in a current uniform.

I admit I liked themed competition camporees. This year, my council camporee's theme was Wilderness Survival, and the competition was interesting. We had everything from plant ID, to survival shelter building where they dumped water on the shelter, to no match and no flint and steel firestarting ( don't know if anyone used the waterbottle and water method, but know of 3 patrols that used batteries an 000 steel wool ) to geocaching/first aid, to Tomahawk Throwing. Everyone had a blast, especially the Cubs who ended up on the Tomahawk range As others said, while competiions should focus on basic scouting skills, uyou do need "twists" to make them fun and challenging. I personally like the spaghetti tying event which combined firebuilding and knot tying. You also need outside activitie to keep it interesting. Special Forces detachement was awesome. Historic reenactors is another favorite. Unfortunately, the Blackhawk couldn't make it one year due to a hurricane, and the offer to my home council tohave a recon unit do an insertion was nixed.

CM & WD, One local tribe in my old stomping grounds had individual houses similar to your pic. But the community meeting place, was more substantial. Quinnipissa Lodge 479 built a replica of the Caddo House, and use it for their ceremonies. I like it

I've bad expereince with just giving stuff to scouts. I've seen folks donate money for equipment or outright give them equipment, and it was not taken care of. Heck my son's troop is having some issues with tents being damaged, and they did some fundraising to get them. I like having some skin in the game, whether is is traditional fundraising, i.e. popcorn, spaghetti dinners etc, or having them work events. I remember picking up garbage at one event every year, and that is what paid for me to stay in the troop and do campouts after my father walked out. I cut grass, picked up garbage. and was a ball boy at a tennis tourney. I also like the idea of if you do receive a donation, you THANK THE DONOR! One troop went Christmas caroling to donors homes. To thank the CO, they would cut palms for the Palm Sunday services. Even a card is worthwhile.

CM&WD, One of the challenges of putting on good training, especially outdoor training, is the prep work. To do it correctly, and I stress correctly it takes 6-9 months of prepwork i.e. finding a date that can get the most people to attend, recruiting qualified staff, organizing who does what etc. I know the council I grew up in did the training 2 SMF, and later IOLS 2 times a year with one group of districts hosting the spring course, and another group of districts hosting the fall course. My "troop" had 6 patrols of 8 or 9 from all over the council, and the fall course had a similar number. My current council has it that every district does their own. It's challenging because IMHO there is a lot of duplication of effort, fewer staffers and smaller pool of experts than with a group of districts hostng, and smaller number of participants. Last time I only had 1 patrol, and one time I had only 2 participants. We ended up doing a "test out" for that session since both had extensive outdoor expereince.

After 7 years as a Boy Scout who attended Brownsea 22, the old Scoutmaster Fundamentals Course, which is now divided into SM Specific and IOLS ( and SF had a 3rd module on the "Model Troop Meeting" ) the only thing that I learned new was the paperwork side of things, i.e. the need for tour permits, getting Safe Swim Defense certified, etc. Like some others, I could have taught the course, especially the outdoor portion. When I was training chair, one of the things I did was get folks I knew who needed IOLS to be " trained" but already had the knowledge, skills, and abilitities to help staff the event. For example, I got the leader who's been to Philmont 3x and another leader who went through JLT, served on summer camp staff, and was a combat medic to staff the event so they could get credit for the event. As well as provide some great imput. I also had some youth staff teaching courses as a way to A) reinforce the concept of "Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" by showing new leaders that yes the youth can take care of themseleves and B) to get the best staffers in the different areas of training. On a slightly different tangent, I was told I needed to take BALOO (Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation for Cub Scout leaders) to take my pack camping as my SMF and IOLS training didn't count. That was a complete waste of my time as I learned only one new thing: how to tie a bottle knot. What has happened in my neck of the woods is that was started by my successor is that we are getting Cub Scout leaders to IOLS and doing and adding the Cub Scout materials to the course. The participants get a "three for one special" of BALOO, Outdoor Webelos Leader (OWL) and IOLS all in one weekend for those who need it. National at one time was talking about consolidating all three courses, and some districts combine OWL and IOLS into one weekend. We also do the "Are You Smarter Than a First Class Scout" IOLS test out which is Pass or Fail. So far we have had 100% success rate as the leaders are taking it seriously. Except for the old fogey who doesn't seem to have any time in his retirement to finally get trained. He keeps using "I'm going to Philmont again," or 'That's an OA weekend," or "I'm on the road visiting...." You would think after 50+ years in Scouting, he would finally get trained

I admit, I've never done WB, but I've done Brownsea 22 and staffed JLT. I was told both courses are 'Woodbadge Lite" since the material is nearly identical, and Scouts don't do tickets. In fact one of the JLT staffers, who turned 18 after the course and went to WB told me when I asked him about the course, "I wouldn't waste my time going right now since everything taught at WB we taugh at JLT. I'd wait until you got out of Scouts for a while, and come back in and need a refresher." Back then, the courses took what Scouts should know as First Class or higher Scouts, and applied it in a no-nonsense setting where we not only mastered the skills, but could teach those skills effortlessly since we lived it for a week. Someday I do plan on going through WB, but it's more of a check off for me. Jambo has WB as a requirement for being a contingent leader now, and there are some folks I've met who, if you don't have beads, you don't know squat. What's funny is, when I tell those who know me that I haven't done WB yet, they freak out. Then again, we have one "old fogey" who is still "untrained" after 60+ years in Scouting. He still hasn't taken IOLS. He's been to busy camping, doing OA, working at Philmont, and travelling in his retirement to attend IOLS.

Do not know how much it's going to cost, but the CO for my son's troop is going to build a building specifcally for Scouting on the new property. The building is suppose to be large enough for both the pack and troop to meet at the same time. Kinda helps when the IH is doing double duty as an ASM, and the #1 deacon who is heading up the new facility layout is also the committee chairman. Most of the troops in my neck of the woods have their own rooms, usually the basements, of the COs. One such troop has stuff going back to Harding Administration!

Unfortunately paying a fee for scout camp use is the norm in my neck of the woods. I had to pay useage fees for day camp and various camporees. It is incorporated into the event budget, so it's in the fee for the event, and most folks do not notice. You may say I've drunk the council Kool Aid, but I'm for it because the camp usage fees are used to take care of the camp in addition to the designated council budget funds. So the more the local council camps are used, the more money that camp gets. And that is a good thing compared to before. When I first got into the council, the there was no fees, but very, and I stress VERY little maintence done at the local, non-summer camp Scout camp. So little was done that individual troops and the OA chapters that used the camp did more for the camps than council did. Also units really didn't use the camp, going instead to state parks and other camp grounds that also charged fees. When we got a new Scout Executive, he told us what he wanted to do; have a fee and use the fees to maintain and improve the different camps. Yes there was some grumbling, but 7 years later, the local camp is SO much better than it was before. Improvements and repairs have been made, and a new boating center was built (although a large chunck of the money was a estate bequest). And while I have not visited all of our council's camps, I do know improvements have been made at them as well. The local camp has improved so much since fee went into effect, we have increased the number of folks using the camp dramatically. I don't know overall numbers, but I know one event at the camp has quadrupled in attendancesince it came out 6 years ago. And we have OOC units using it as well. And I see increased use at the local camp since it's the only Scout camp in the council that Cubs can go boating on ( all the others are located on open water). So now that the Cub Scout boating restrictions have been removed, I see more Packs using the place to go canoeing, kayaking, etc.

TG IMHO is probably THE most important job in the troop that uses a New Scout Patrol (NSP) because his job is to get the Scouts up to speed and train the PL to do the job without. Essentially his job is wo work his way out of a job.

My district tried somethinglike that, specifically it would go down theunit number list to decide who runs the leaders' crackerbarrels. It was a failure. I admit I really want the youth participating in cemporee events instead of running them. But those Scouts WILLING to host and run should have full power to decide hwo things are going to be. My answer would be 'See you nect year."

To paraphrase Yoda, knots and beads matter not. If the Scouts don't know how to use something, and there is no one else to teach them, then obviously you gotta do what you gotta do.

OUTSTANDING YOUNG MAN!

I had to take one of the my scouts to the ER while at summer camp a long time ago. He was OK, but had to get a prescription filled. I didn't have the money or his insurance card with me, so I dropped him off at camp, got money and the insurance info, and headed backinto town for his 'script. It was a nasty evening, heavy rain, poor visibility, etc. On the way back to camp after picking up the prescription, someone shot out across the road in front of me, causing me to hydroplane onto the side of the road in order to avoid hitting them. They kept on going as if nothing happened. And i am stuck in the mud. After trying to get out of the mud, but before I could call a tow truck, one happened to see me and stopped. to help me out. He saw me in uniform, asked what happened, and if I was going to the local camp. He then proceeded to tow me out, and when I asked how much, "Just doing my good turn for the day. Make sure you help someone next time you see them stranded on the side of the road."

If this is going on a tangent, please bear with me as I am not trying to. I stated that my friend may be right in taking 5 years or more to get a troop to be fully independent of the adults. I know some of the issues I'm seeing with my son's troop are the following 1) SPL is not mature enough, doesn't have the self-confidence for the job, nor the respect from some of the "older" Scouts. Part of that is the fact that the troop is so young, oldest scout is 14, and we've had an influx of new scouts in the past 18 months. Troop has tripled in size since when my son joined and has 2 NSPs. WHile the SPL has the KSAs and training to do the job, and I've told him repeatedly he's doing a good job, he does get frustrated with the older Scouts not listening. He also get uncomfortable speaking and running things when the stuttering breaks out. HOWEVER, With the 3 SPLs I've seen, each one is doing a better job than the previous one. The PLs, especially the NSP my son was in, are doing their jobs better than previous PLs. Grant you, my son helps alot with his old patrol, but I and others can see the improvement. And our second NSP has made strides since they first came to the troop in Decemeber. I just hope when they get 5 new Scouts at the end of the month, it doesn't affect the dynamics too much. 2) IMHO, when you have such a young troop, and you really do not have a Troop Guide that is really capable of doing the job justice, you do need a few ASMs who understand the Patrol Method, and can work with and mentor the PL and TG without telling them what to do. Normally that would eb the SPL, ASPL, and other "older Scouts' " jobs IMHO. But I know I've had to "get involved" for lack of a better term, and counsel and mentor a PL who'se TG basically abandoned the NSP. What I found ironic was that when the TG realized he essentially abandoned his patrol, that patrol is doing quite well.

When did BALOO, OWLS, and ITOLS become online courses? And why am I not surprised the new training modules won't be available until AFTER the new program goes into effect. Thankfully the literature came out on time!

I know we have. One unit is because they need to leave Saturday nite. Hopefully their new bishop and SM will get them active once again. One unit has not replied directly, just ignores callls and emails. Heck they were suppose to run an event at camporee, and never informed anyone on the camporee staff that they were not going. I found out via a Facebook post that they were not going to camporee the monday before camporee! However one post on FB stated they believed there was too much politics on the district level, and they cannot get minimum number of Scouts for a patrol to go to council camporee. IMHO the "politics" excuse is BS as the district has bent over backwards trying to get them involved. District committee meetings and RTs are at their CO, we've asked adults form the troop to be on the district level, etc. Heck the district went so far as to let them take over another troop's campsite that the original troop put in for when campsite assingments were first made which the troop never went to the meeting. Very big deal since the original troop paid to have the water system put in the campsite, and the money used to build the shelter in the campsite was the result of a patch auctions from a deceased Scout's collection form the original troop. As for council camporee, not having a minimum of 4 Scouts to compete may be a legitimate reason. But I'm willing to bet that if the Scouts knew about council camporee well enough in advance and actually made a calendar instead of the SM doing it, they may just want to go. Sorry to rant, but you all know the frustration the unit has caused me.

Don't know about other training staff, but I ran into a bunch of AIA staffers at our section conclave. Top notch folks. So wish I was going.

I've seen special "Staff" hats used before, but those were ti ID the folks working the event, you could ask questions about the event, and enforce some of the policies ( "WHATCHA MEAN I CAN'T KEEP MY CAR IN THE CAMPSITE.?!?!?!?!"and the caps are for being screamed at.) Why can't folks realize that the program is for the Scouts and not the adults.