Eagle94-A1

I know our troop has a program, maybe too good a program as A) we are getting scouts from multiple units and B) We are a hiking and camping unit. The youth have been slack on advancement up until recently. But that's because most don't care, they want to have fun. All the older ones now want First Class so they can go to Philmont next year. Funny thing is, withthe exception of the 30 days of exercises for Tenderfoot, and the 1 mile orienteering course for First Class, all they really need to do is get the stuff signed off. They have the KSA for the advancement. One thing that seems kinda ironic is that it seem the challenged troop is copying us. We announced when we won the Philmont lottery for 2016 and has x number of spaces open to get them filled. When the SM found out that all the spaces were filled, about a month later he announces that their troop is going to FL Sea Base, and none of the parents or scouts knew anything about it. We announced we were going to a specific summer camp, they announce they are going to the same camp and the same week. We had some minor issues with their scouts bugging ours, especially the two who transferred from them to us,but overall everythign was OK.

IMHO, part of getting them to understand MBs is using the Webelos Adventures in a very similar manner to MBs, i.e. get "experts" to work on them with the Cub Scouts. As for what the ranks are, I'ld focus on the "how they are earned" part more than what they are. And I second whomever siad First Aid MB required for First Class Scout.

I want to say it was mid to late 1990s when the ban went into effect. here is a 1990 camporee patch http://www.ebay.com/itm/East-Carolina-Council-1990-Camporee-Tar-Heels-H2292-/201371801269?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ee2b1d6b5 I want to say this was the last official CSP from my council with it http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINT-CSP-East-Carolina-Council-S-5-/291502226712?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43dee2fd18 This troop got into some major trouble with national and the council with this one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/East-Carolina-Council-2005-Jamboree-Troop-12-SMY-JSP-patch-gQ-/231606288588?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35eccf80cc I want to say this was the first CSP with it http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-East-Carolina-Council-Rare-Scout-Shoulder-Patch-CSP-/200431103970?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eaa9fefe2

One I heard about was the camp director placing the live lobsters for the SM's dinner with the Scout exec in the staff shower house. Took a while for the staff to clear out the showerhouse. Staff in response put his Jeep in neutral, pushed it to the area between the main camp and the HA base, put it on 4 jacks, and used the four tires as orienteering markers for him to find. That ended the pranks that year at camp. Another one I heard was the cranky P.I.T.B. camp medic, who happened to be a heavy sleeper, was duct taped to his cot by several staffers he ticked off. They then proceeded to carry him up a ladder and placed him on the roof of the health lodge. One I saw was done to a lazy PD who had a habit of sleeping a lot, raiding the dining hall, and playing RISK. Staff moved his desk and stuff from HQ to the dining hall. They also placed a cot next to the desk. They finally hung a large sign with letters that were easily readable form a distance with a "To Do" list of eating, napping, and Risk. FINALLY, one I saw from the other side of the pond, so CambridgeSkip will appreciate this one. One of the service team (camp staff) was being a PITB to one of the leaders of a Girl Guide troop staying at the camp. Ok I can understand the attraction as she was a very beautiful model. The entire Girl Guide troop had enough, so they decided to invite him to supper. As soon as he sits down, they tie him up, shave one leg into verticle strips, the other into horizontal stripes, and put clown makeup and red nose on him. Did I mention he was a rugby player and had some tournament to play in that weekend? Needless to say, the unwanted attention stopped.

Japanese type 30 for me. I got one like the middle one in the photo. http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Bolt%20Action%20Rifles/Japanese%20Rifles/Bayonets%20for%20the%20Arisaka%20Rifle/Bayonets%20for%20the%20Arisaka%20Rifle.htm BUT I am saving up for one of these beauties http://www.khukurihouseonline.com/Content/Catalog/Browse/ProductDetail.php?PID=a9a1d5317a33ae8cef33961c34144f84|5b484f

Did he actually use all the items on the SAK? If not, I'm a very big fan of Opinel, especially their carbon steel knives: http://www.opinel-usa.com/collections/opinel-carbon-blades#.VZsxM7Xig40 I and my older two boys have this one. http://www.opinel-usa.com/collections/opinel-carbon-blades/products/opinel-knives-no-7-carbon-steel-folding-knife#.VZsxYbXig40 But I'm thinking of handing down mine to youngest and getting this one. http://www.opinel-usa.com/collections/opinel-carbon-blades/products/opinel-carbon-blade-no10-folding-knife#.VZsxqLXig40

As you may have guessed from previous posts on other threads, I've been extremely torn up about this troop. I have a long history with them, and do not want to see the troop fold. And I do see that happening if something doesn't change. On the other hand, I have an interest in the success of my Scouts. I want them to have fun, have the opportunities I've had, etc. The district knows what going on as 1) I've talked to the district commissioner about the situation and that since I am being ignored by my advice, as well as the lack of being bale to commit to them as a full time UC, that they find someone ASAP to replace the UC that died and B) district committee see them not participating after doing everything they could to get them involved. As for bad mouthing the troop when they insulted my troop's leadership on facebook, mea culpa. I admit it got to me, especially after everything I and others have done, including my troop's leadership, to help them out. I did publicly, but politely, told him that the troop hasn't really involved the Webelos for over 2 years. The one time they did invite to camp with them, at the district's Webeloree, it was 4 days before the event. This was after the pack's leadership repeatedly asked them several months before hand ( I want to say 2-3 months) if the Webelos could camp with them. With no response 2 weeks out, they accepted another troop's invitation. I also told him how I and the pack's leadership has made numerous attempts to get the Troop involved somehow with the pack so that our Webelos could get to know them, and want to join the troop to no avail. wasn't trying to bad mouth, but trying to make him see reality. I then deleted the posts and private messaged him instead.

Every council does things differently. I have been told by folks who have went to resident camp that the staff by this point are not as energetic and have negative attitudes, programming is done last minute, and that even though there are paid staff, they still want parents to volunteer to lead activities. One person would rather day camp to resident. Another actually goes out of council to resident b/c it's closer, and they have much better program. One council has a paid staff for their day camp, offer multiple weeks, and offers a discount if you go multiple weeks. However they charge $250+ per week. That's more than some Boy Scout resident camps.

Barry, You hit the nail on the head. No need to apologize. Heck I vent here a lot, especially the past few years about this troop. Funny thing is, just as I try to move on, something like this happens, and I'm sucked back in.

@ I think part of the issues with having broad, national recruiting policies is that every situation is different. Some troops have a feeder pack, some don't. Some packs have a feeder troop, other don't. Some schools systems allow Scouts in, and other don't. Closets I've found to a national policy is the Webelos to Scout Transition Guide. It's a guide, and I personally am glad it is as there are some things I do not like about it. What do I not like about it? 1) It focuses solely on Webelos IIs and not the Webelos as a whole. Because of various situations, i.e. late birthdays, being helpd back, etc, It is possible for Webelos I to meet all of the requirements, including the time/age requirement, in 1 year of Webelos. My pack has had a few cases like that, and my Middle Son is trying to do that this year since he will meet the 6 months since turning 10 in May. I think you need to work with Webelos ASAP. 2) They need to not that the timeline they give could possibly be moved up as soon as 2 months, or extended 3 months. As a den, the earliest everyone will meet the time requirement is December 1st since SCOUTNET promotes everyone to the next level on June 1st. And there are a few packs that still do the May graduation. On a different note, as I mentioned I PM'd the SM, I know that he got my messages since A) he was online when I sent them, and B) after I finished the PMs, he still posted on the pack FB group page. Yep he's ignoring me, again.

As you all know, the troop's decline has been several years in the making. I and others have tried to help, to no avail. In addition to the SM, I also talked to one of the parents who took all the training except ITOLs, and she's looking at that. Don't know what her official role is, but she was the Pack's CC at one point. So she has a little Scouting experience. We specifically talked about recruiting and how important it is to get back involved with the pack. This was back in March. And while I was talking to her, our CM was talking to the SM about the same thing. Last week, both of our troops attended the same summer camp. Our CM, whose son joined our troop after hanging with us at district camporee, council camporee, and the Webeloree, talked to the ASM in charge for the week about this very situation. According to the CM, NONE of the conversations with the SM and asking for involvement is being passed down to the other leaders. Here's the irony of the SM's comment: my troop's leadership wants the troubled troop to thrive. One of the ASMs and I put together and staffed ITOLS in a hurry when we found out that the new SM and the other leaders didn't have it. I've recruited for the troop once, and an ASM suggested that an experienced transfer from out of council visit the troop since A) he may be able to help them and B) he went to the CO's church. As for inviting the whole den, I got approval from that. I asked the SM first to make sure it was OK with him. He in turn asked the SPL. Now I admit I don't know if he talked to his PLs, but the SPL said that was fine. I don't know how many will go since it's short noticed, but I do know at least 2 other Webelos will be there. And we will working on Aquanaut since it's the troop's fun Boating Weekend. I didn't think of the district angle and favoritism. I know that the SM made a comment about not doing Scouting for Food becasue of "district politics." Maybe because I am on the district committee I cannot see what he is talking about. But I think the district has gone out of the way to help them out and make them feel welcome. We have invited leaders from them to be part of the district Advancement committee. No takers. We have been trying get them to attend RTs and involved for over 5 years now, and it's at their CO. Kinda hard to find out what's going on, and be involved when no one attends the meeting that discusses the details for various activities in the district. I know that when the district did spring recruiting for both the Pack and Troop, they didn't send anyone to help recruit. Against my better judgement I sent 3 new Scouts to them, only to find out that withing 3 or 4 months they all quit. And I already mentioned how the district was able to ram through an ITOLS in 2 months, specifically for them, and they only the SM attends because "it's to cold to camp." Being blamed for the problems they have is extremely frustrating, especially since I've done everything in my power to help them.

Well I think the SM of the troop that has some challenges just got a wake up call. Hopefully things will change. Long story short, oldest son's troop has a camp out coming up. They have an open invitation for Webelos to camp with them, but I wasn't going to take him because I hate taking him when the rest of the den won't be there. However, I now have to take him. So I asked and got approved to invite the entire Webelos group. Then I got this reply <i>[Eagle94-a1]it is in bad taste to recruit Pack members into another Troop. You may not agree as I have seen several posts in the past. Troop !@# has often invited Pack !@# members to our outings and they will always be invited; but to openly or secretly recruit like this is about the lowest form of scouting that can exists. And if Troop $%'s leadership is ok with these low tactics, then that in itself says something about he Troop & the leadership of it </i> Now I admit, this set me off. Not so much the attack on me, but the "...low tactics, then that in itself sasy something about he Troop & the leadership of it." We got a great key three and ASM. We do not want to "steal" anyone. We want every scout to have an opportunity to be in scouting, whether with us or in another troop. Heck, we have sent visitors and our own Scouts to other troops becasue that troop was a better fit. Anyway our CM's wife chimed in about approriateness, so I apologized, deleted the comments, and messaged him. Hopefully this is a wake up call. Hopefully he will realize that if he doesn't do something, ANYTHING, with the pack, folks will look elsewhere for a troop for their sons to join.

It is my understanding that a lot of the G2SS is based upon business practices, laws, etc, and not Scouting reality. So there are discrepancies between what is done for advancement or in reality, and what is written. Best example is the info about service projects. Those uner 14 can no longer use their little red wagon to transport stuff for service projects. But they can do PushMobiles at the National Scouting Museum, or use wagons to transport camping gear.

From the title, I thought the conversation might be about a troop's lost and found bag after a week of summer camp. with 8 first year campers, we had a large bag, and it did smell.

Not a lot of work. Folks just bring in cans. My oldest son and his brothers do the crushing if they are not already crushed. Storage can be a problem though. One guy donated 2.5 fifty-five gallon garbage bags full of crushed cans one time. He had been saving the cans for over 10 years. Edited: when scouts bring cans, they are already crushed. I have some folks not invovled in the troop bringing me cans. Hence my hoodlums involvement.

THAT is the understatement of the year!

We started doing the cans in January. We average about $10/month. Not a lot but every penny helps.

Well, my son's SM knows how to handle discipline. Sending folks home. He actually sent the entire troop home 1 time, about a month or two before Oldest joined it. The lesson was learned and the older Scouts informed everyone, that the SM doesn't play and tell the story how they got sent home 1 time. We have not had those behavior problems. I think bad behavior is like an infectious disease: if it isn't treated immediately the rest of the troop sees it, sees it's not getting corrected, and imitates it so that it grows. Unfortunately the SM believes that his son is can do no evil and that it's always other peoples fault ( yes, one time he told me that) He refuses to discipline his son. And as a result people have left. And those who remain apparently are following their SPL's lead.

I know one of the things I think the new syllabus does not emphasise enough is the PATROL METHOD (caps for emphasis). It was oneof the things I harped on in that class. One person actually kept track of the number of times I mentioned the Patrol Method, as whenever I had questions, I tried my best to incorporate the patrol method into the answer. I admit I did use some of the older syllabus and ILS-T , as well as some previous training informatrion, into my discussions. I do admit, one thing I like about the new syllabus is that it is it no longer 'Death by PowerPoint." Problem I has, and it may have been b/c of the large number we had, lots of good questions that got the discussion rolling along. We actually did it longer than the proscribed time, but still too short a timeframe IMHO.

By any chance, do you have ANY of the previous WB versions in an electronic format? I would love to have copies. And I'll trade you an electronic copy of BA22 that I have for it too.

When I went to PDL-1 as a brand new DE, one of the folks in my class was retired USAF and had her own plane. She would fly her plane around her district to service the various units. I think she was in ND.

Well, most of you have heard about the troop falling apart in my district. You've heard mostly about the SM not following the Patrol Method and appointing leaders; meetings are being used as MB classes; not working with their CO's pack; not participating in district activities, etc. I don't know if I've mentioned behavioral problems, in particular with the SM's son, but several folks have left becasue of him. To qoute my son, "He's a bully constantly picking on people." When he was a Webelos I saw some of this, and know for a fact that when the troop was electing leaders, no one would vote for him because of his bad behaviour. That's why the SM appoints leaders so "Everyone gets a chance." Well maybe it's a good thing they don't do much with other units as the bad behaviour apparently is increasing. Thankfully the original problem child is not at summer camp that both my troop and they are attending. Long story short it appears that the folks who are there are trying to start trouble with my troop, especially with one of the two guys who transfered from them to us. Worse part is, the guy causing the most trouble use to be his best friend, being in my old den together and in the same classes in school until one moved, and transfered to our troop. Thankfully my son hasn't been subjected to some of the physical aspects of bullying, but he's heard some of the language. And's made a comment that the Scout has changed in last 18 months. Their leader has been informed, and we had a very long conversation with our Scouts last night about the various incidents that have been occuring the past few days at camp. Hopefully the matter is solved. We'll see however. Folks, if you have a scout who is causing problems, please nip it in the bud. I may be wrong, but I think because the problems with the original youth were not corrected and taken care when they first happened, the rest of the youth see that behaviour, and are modelling it. I know the first troop I was in had some issues, and threats and language were the means used by the PL and SPL to get things done. And I know when I had problems when I first became a PL, I modeled that behavior when a problem arose. Thankfully my SM, and SPL were there to correct me and mentor me.

In all fairness to national, Bill was in the 67-69 years of age when he retired the first time. So I wouldn't call it being "benched." But yeah, I agree with folks not loving the outdoors working for national. Heck my old boss in supply was one. We were a pilot for allowing supply run summer camp trading posts. I had a few years expereince on camp staff, and my boss had none. It was a major P.I.T.A. trying to get her to understand what goes on at a camp and how things in a regular store won't work at camp and how ideas she had were not feasible. It was only after being assigned to jamboree staff that she fnally understood what I was talking about. As for backpacking WB. One of my old district commissioners did that at Philmont. MAN the stories he told. However, I beleive they had a canoeing and/or rafting WB course. I could live with that.

You mean like Green Bar Bill's WB syllabus? Why does it seem like the folks at national want todo away with everything Bill did?

Boyled, 1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS! 2) I'm sorry you have a dysfunctional troop. 3) I'd follow the 10th Doctor's ( or is he the 11th now) advice and "RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!" I've seen first hand a troop like yours. SPL, PLs, and other PORs assigned by the SM. SM makes all decisions. etc. Only difference is there is no conflicting orders from ASMs. And I can tell you first hand the frustration you will encounter if you attempt to make suggestions for change and are ignored. The troop I know about was on the way to being the best in the district. SM was finally in the position to sit back and drink his coffee without having to leave his campsite, letting the youth he worked with run everything, when he needed to step down and a new SM volunteered. One youth at his Eagle SM conference point blank told the new SM how the changes he made was destroying the troop. He was ignored, and he stayed around long enough to have his ECOH, try to encourage change, and finally left in disgust. Three Scouts when to NYLT, found out how things should be run, expereinced it for a week, and tried to encouraged change. They were ignored. One Eagled and left. One Eagled, and is "active" in that he pays his registration fee in order to remain in the OA. He's a chapter officer, and is loving the OA. But with the troop, he doesn't attend meetings or the few camp outs they go on. Third Scout finally had enough and transferred to a Scout run troop. He Eagled, and is working on his Hornaday Award. He's still active with the troop. That's from discussions with the youth in question. And adults get frustrated too. Former SM tried to help them out. Ignored. District training chair, who was once an ASM with the troop was ignored. Unit Commissioner, the experienced old fogey who is assigned by district to help out units, kept trying to get them back on track until he died. And I tried to help them, was told I don't know what I'm talking about, and finally quit trying to help them in frustration. Now the troop is dying out. My oldest son's den was the last den they worked with, and only because I A) begged them to do something, ANYTHING, with the Webelos to get them interested in the troop and B) one of the committee member's sons was in the den. Out of that group, 2 joined a different troop, 2 eventually transferred to the troop their buddies joined, and 2 quit. Only the MC's son remains, and his oldest son is nearing Eagle. They are not doing anything with the Cub Scout pack, i.e. providing DCs, inviting them to a meeting and camp out for recruiting purposes/ AOL purposes, working with them on district level service projects, not working with them to coordinate Scout Sunday, etc. SO the last 2 batches of Cross Overs, the main group in December, and one in May, went to the different troop. They do not participate in any district or council activities, except for MB colleges and weekends. Currently they only sent 4 youth to summer camp this year. Why am I frustrated with this troop? I helped set up the troop. I helped train the original SM, worked with Scouts on MBs and the OA, camped with them etc. When it came time for oldest to be a Cub Scout, I went to their feeder pack first because I wanted him in that troop. But between that time, and the first and only camp out with them as a 4th grade Webelos, the troop fell so far that even he commented that the troop isn't doing things right after 1 camp out.