Eagle94-A1

1) forgot to welcome you to the forums. 2) Love the VF-1J armoured Veritech that is your avatar.

Don't remind me about how easily folks get offended. Anyone hear about the girl who is suing her rescuer for rape? She said he touched her inappropriately and kissed doing CPR and she was not able to giver her consent. Now I read that it was a joke on one website, but on another it was real. And with the way folks are nowadays, I could believe it.

I've heard multiple reasons why they took the red out of the Boy Scout uniform. Some silly, i.e. someone at national didn't like red and BSA didnt want to look as if they favored one political party, to rational, i.e. subdued colors are LNT friendly. What I hated about the switchover was the lack of guidance and information by national and utter confusion and waste of money it caused. And Insignia Guide came out a year after the uniforms were unveiled and 9 months after the uniforms became available. Initially it said anyone wearing a Centennial Uniform (CU) had to go with the green on tan numbers, so of course Cub Scout leaders and Webelos getting new CUs got those tan and green numbers. Then around January rumors came out that Cub leaders and Webelos are suppose to wear the red and whites in the CUs. Then some literature came out with Webelos wearing red numbers on a tan background, that didn't even exist! In late April 2009, I joined a pack, and to get the correct colored numbers, I called my old National Scout Shop, to get an answer from a national source. I was told CU = green on tan numbers. I asked about the red on tan numbers, and was told they were a proposal that didn't go anywhere because it would be a 5th line of numbers that national would have to make. So I got the green on tan numbers. 2 weeks later, the IG comes out and says that CS leaders and Webelos wear red on whites. The only thing that national got correct IMHO was allowing ODL uniform items to be worn with the CUs per the literature that was in effect from May 2008 ( announcement) until May 2009 ( when IG came out) So I have no problem defending scouts at the district camporee's uniform inspection wearing the red and white numbers. Some things I say before the IG came out are the following: Venturers wearing the tan and green numbers and trained strips because " we were told only Cub Scouts wear red numbers" Cub Scouts in blue wearing tan and green because that was all that was left at the distributor and the parents didn't know better. Boy Scouts wearing the Venturing green loops Venturers wearing the Boy Scout green loops Suffice to say, I think the CUs were not thought out completely prior to being introduced. I think it shows when a new uniform shirt comes out within 5 years of one being introduced.

Yes, scouting IS family. Glad you are better, and keeping you in my prayers.

Tahawk, I think that the problem is the powers that be have no consistency in their publications. Now do they understand how the various programs work. Remember the terminology they used when the Centennial uniforms came out in 2008? I loved how the adult leader inspection sheets specified the new shirts for Boy Scouts leaders, and the old ones for Cub Scout leaders. And do not get me started on the green on tan numbers and trained strips vs the white on red numbers and red on tan trained strips. In regards to trained strips, G2AI shows 3 different types For shirts with pocket sleeves, the emblem is worn on the sleeve pocket flap above the badge of office; red, No. 18120, Cub Scout and Venturing leaders; forest green, No. 18064, Boy Scout leaders. For shirts without pocket sleeves, the emblem is worn on the left sleeve immediately below and touching the emblem of office for which it was earned; red, No. 280, Cub Scout and Venturing leaders; forest green, No. 18064, Boy Scout leaders. But then in one of the national training committee newsletters and on a BSA website, it states it any trained strip is appropriate for any position.

ROTF! Seriously though. I had one parent, buy a Duluth pack from a national scout shop thinking it would be appropriate for backpacking. I don't know if she asked for help, but I can tell you that not everyone who works for supply division knows what they are selling, or to outfit someone. I had one coworker who would send folks to me to help them out. And there is pressure to make sales. True story. My manager was furious at me because during a relatively quiet afternoon, I spent about 30-45 minutes talking to a new Boy Scout leader about camping gear. Talking about what to look for, different features and how they are used, size, and how to try out, i.e. bringing 25 pounds of gear to put in it. I even told the guy about other stores that may have backpacks that are better suited to him. He left without buying anything. Boss chewed me out, I think I lost 10-15 pounds in the glutus maximus from the chewing out He shows back up about 20 minutes later, brought some weight with him, and tried out some backpacks. Sold him a pack, mess kit, cutlery, hiking socks, and other stuff.

Oscar De La Renta

To quote the Doctor, 'RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!" I've had bad experiences with K-mart stuff. VERY BAD There are deals and programs out there. ALPS Mountaineering has the HIKERDIRECT.COM program. Coleman, which I am leery of, has a program. Other vendors have programs too. As for backpacking versus plop camping, let me elaborate. Yes indeed there are ways to get good backpacks inexpensively. I've mentioned facebook and ebay, But Government Surplus has been my friend for a very long time. But I personally like to give folks some time to look at, try on, and get a feel on what to look for in a backpack, as well as get a chacne to see what is out there. Grant you there are a lot more resources available in buying a backpack nowadays compared to when I bought my first backpack as a K-Mart special that broke on the 2nd trip I ever used it on, the week long backpacking trip I might add, but I like to give as much information and advice prior to buying a backpack. Don't want what happened to me to happen to someone else. Nor do I want someone buying a backpack designed for canoeing to be used on a backpacking trip.

Don't know the economic resoources of your scouts, but a good backpack may be out of reach for a new scoout initially. My troop does the plop camping. But with a group going to Philmont next year, we are slowly integrating backpping skills and gear. Just because you have backpacking gear, doesn't mean you cant plop camp. Heck, my son found a fully stocked chuck box at a yard sale for $40. Most of the gear was designed for packpacking!

10th ed. BSHB 1990, states what a field uniform is and has an image on page 566. Also has a descriptio of the activities uniform, field uniform with a polo shirt. That's the 1997 printing, and i think the image was changed because the 1990 ed, first printing SMHB, uses field and activity uniforms, and has pics on pages 231 to 233. The image of the uniforms also includes the tan activity shorts with white socks that they stopped producing around 1995. And yes, I have a pair of the tan shorts.

Part of how you respond and replys comes about your relationship and experineces with your Scouts. I will call them ''hoodlums'' at times becuase of a movie reference. One family joke that I modified for my oldest when Scouting, has now been applied to all of the Scouts in his patrol and a few others. And they modified it to use on the Adults in on it. However, I woould not use the ''go away you horrible Scout'' on a new Scout who would think I'm serious. What's funny is that on one camp out, the patrol had a pool on when I would say it.:-)

OUTSTANDING!

Thanks for the responses. I admit I got 4 selfish reasons for doing what I do : my Second Class Scout, my Webelos Cub Scout, my Wolf Cub Scout, and Payback. First 3 are obvious, but there is no way in Hades that I can pay back to the leaders how much their time, energy, and care meant to me. Closest is continuing their legacy.

My thoughts. 1. Make sure the Scouts have some sweat equity in the purchasing of equipment. I've seen good donated equipment abused 2. Once you figure out the gear you need, look at Craigslist.org, garage sales, etc to get stuff. 3. I love government surplus gear. As one of the ASM's would say, ''if it's designed for combat, it may survive Scouts.'' There are state programs where nonprofits and local government agencies can buy gear cheap. In NC, ALICE packs for $20, axes and saws for $10, etc. Good luck!

I know it is a very big deal. I knew going into this decision how important the troop is to the church. One reason why I wanted to talk to the SM and my friend the ASM/CM about it. I know first hand how important the relationship with the CO and units are, I do not want to damage that. The Church's relationship with the pack and troop is one of the reasons why I am glad my son picked the troop. All day I have been thinking about typing a letter, rescinding the offer to be SM, and emphasizing that I am formally relinquishing my job as a committee member and will serve as an ASM. Which I thought was done already back in June, but apparently wasn't. My goal is to take care of the Scouts. On a positive note, the BORs went well. 2 PLs are now Tenderfoot, one of the Scouts I had since 1st grade also is Tenderfoot, and Oldest is Second Class. AND he may be able to finish up the last requirement for First Class, cooking 3 meals on a single camp out and have his BOR by Holloween. Apparently the SM also didn';t realize it was a single camp out, and had been signing off after they had done a breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And the Tenderfeet did a great job.

How good a relationship do you have with the troop, and how much work is left to get AOL? If they are only waiting for the 6 months since completing 4th grade, see if the troop will let them visit meetibgs and go camping. Son's troop has an open door policy, and Webelos can go on any trip allowable by BSA. We had 2 Webelos do hiking while the troop worked on backpacking and hiking. Another thing if they are chomping at the bit. Cross them over as soon as they are 10.5 or in December.

Keep it up. I had a similar discussion between BORs with one of the patrols last nite. IMHO, our society has conditioned them to follow the adults' lead, and they have a hard time comprehending that they can do what they want, within BSA guidelines, as a patrol.

1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS! (And yes, I am screaming at you at the top of my lungs like I would any new Cub Scout leader ) 2) Guide to Insignia and Awards is your answer, http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide.aspx 3) Regarding stars, you got 2 options OPTION A. X Star on a CS yellow background for the X number of years as a Cub ( And if you have an old 1 year star on TC Orange background from when it was a separate program you can wear that OR add a year to the yellow background) Y Star on a green BS background AND a Z star on a leader blue background. Option B Add X+Y+Z and wear that total on a blue background.

Update I had a conversation with the COR/CC. He is going to think about it and bring it not only to the troop committee, but the church board. The issue that may cause some challenges is that I am not a member of the church, nor of their faith. Scouting is truly viewed as an outreach program with the church, and the troop has attracted families to them. If I would be approved, I would be the first non-member as SM ever, and the troop has been around on and off, mostly on, for over 60 years. Believe it or not, I do not have a problem with it, and understand where the church is coming from. Regardless of the decision, I am sticking with them.

Actually I read about a case where an SM was put into the Ineligible Volunteer Files after being seen in a bar, in uniform after summer camp. Thankfully he followed the appeal process and explained why he was in a bar, in full uniform, and was reinstated: it was the closest place from where his troop bus broke down that had a phone to call a tow truck for the bus, and parents to pick up Scouts.

MattR, National BSA has come up with some standards that approved providers agree to use for WFA. Here's a link http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/680-008.pdf

Couple of things. 1) Agree with the pencil whipping comment. IMHO, and I know many will disagree. but doing away with the Skill Awards has contributed to that occurring. One thing mandated by the adults in my son's, and I will continue to do, is during the January lock in, working on/reviewing First Aid skills. I think knowing first aid is a vital skill, and wish First Aid MB was required for First Class Scout again. 2) In regards to epi-pens laws vary from state-state. In some states, only the person who the epi-pen is prescribed to can administer it, or someone approved by their parent/guardian. Some states allow anyone with training to administer it. Plus there are professional/licensing issues. One of my coworkers has issues requiring an epi-pen. We were told that if they ever goes into shock and needs the epi-pen, we need to make darn sure that their hand is on the epi-pen and we are "aiding" them in administering the drug as there are legal issues for me and licensing issues fro the RNs. 3) Threats of lawsuits are real even if frivolous. I had someone tell me I should sue the leader who pulled me out of the water for dislocating my shoulder prior to my surgery. There was someone who rescued a coworker from an auto accident who sued her for injuries. And while I think and hope this is a joke, I read about a lady suing her rescuer for rape because he touched her "inappropriately" to do CPR and was was giving mouth-to-mouth. 4) Nowadays, it is easier and cheaper to settle out of court than to defend yourself. A doctor in MS is the best case for that. He's Junior and in one specialty, while his deceased father, Senior, was an Ob-Gyn. One of Senior's patients decided to sue Junior, despite repeated attempts telling them Senior died. Long story short, Junior had to hire a lawyer, take time out of his practice, prepare for court, AD NAUSEUM, in order for the judge to dismiss the case within 30 minutes at trial. OH and expenses were out of pocket becuase Junior's malpractice insurance lawsuits from HIS patients, not just any malpractice lawsuit. 5) Even knowing all of the possible negative repercussions, and dealing with an injury resulting from an attempt to rescue someone, I would do it again in a heartbeat. I would expect someone to do everything they could to help out one of my kids, and I will do the same. I know I could not live with myself otherwise.

Hedge, I admit first aid in ITOLS is not enough. Heck IMHO even a basic AHA first aid course is not enough, and I teach those courses. Those courses are designed for urban environments with easy access to medical care. But basic first aid courses were not always that way. Especially FA MB. It taught skills that would be considered WFA. Back in the day, First Aid MB, or at least where I was taught, was outdoor based. it taught us how to recognize problems, and how to improvise using stuff found on a trail, on ourselves, and in a backpack. We learned the skills, then practiced on hikes with scenarios. Out of all my first aid classes over the years, it was the best one. In reading the BS WFA book ( http://www.scoutstuff.org/bsar-wilderness-first-aid-manual.html#.Vgh8YW7ig40) about 90% is what I was taught for FA MB. As for CPR, you are correct CPR certification is not needed for T-2-1. However, CPR is used for an unconscious choking victim which is a 2nd Class requirement. And being able to demonstrate CPR and AED usage is a FA MB requirement. IMHO certification is more CYA. BUT I also know that CPR changes every five years, Waiting to get back to work and find out what the new changes will be in 2016 and get my instructor update, as well as finding out when the new books come out. As for Epi-pens I don't know why they are not taught for T-2-1 or FA MB, especially since it seems as if more and more folks are developing allergies that require them. The only thing I can think for NOT teaching them is that it is a controlled substance requiring a prescription to obtain. And I bet some lawyers do NOT want "kids" administering them. That and in some jurisdictions, only the person who it is prescribed to can administer them, although you can help them out What I've found interesting is that techniques I was taught back in the day, went out of vogue, but are not coming back. And I too hope that you have "wasted" all of that money on training and supplies. But it's good that you are prepared for when things hit the fan. From multiple experiences as both a victim and responder, "Being Prepared" is key.

Had a chance to talk to to my friend, and he's good with me becoming SM, now it's time to talk to the CC/COR

Hedge nails it. Stabilize and call 911 is the current in basic first aid. When I helped teach/recertified a AHA first aid class in June, the only hands on stuff required was putting on gloves; bandaging, and one other item I can't remember. But it was either treating for shock, cut off finger, or epi pen. Yeh we do some extras in the class. What's interesting is that when I got injured in August, it was the leaders and the SPL that took care of me. Grant you we sent the scouts back to camp to cook. But those who took an AHA class probably could not treat me.