Eagle94-A1

Ok here is the link to the first SM Specifc Syllabus. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/34879.pdf

Another BSA Scource Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training Syllabus copyright 2005 and 2010 Printing found here http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/34879.pdf on page 150 states : "The parts of a field uniform are these:" then goes on to decsribe the tan and green uniform. Same page also states "The parts of the activity uniform are these:" and goes on to describe a t-shirt or other activity shirt, and green shorts, socks, and Scout belt. Current Scoutmaster Position Specific Syllabus, found here http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/511-213_WB.pdfon page 5 states: Faculty Uniforms The course faculty members should set a good example as trainers and representatives of the local council. Accordingly, they are expected to wear the complete and correct Scouting field uniform appropriate to their Scouting positions during the course. (emphasis added) Hope this helps.

BSA has major issues with consistency in their literature. This is one example. The SCOUTING MAGAZINE article is another example. A third example is the current discussion of a facebook page regarding the SUMMERTIME AWARD. Current BSA program year is Sept. to Aug. Yet Cubs move to the next level and begin worming on new rank June 1st. This inconsistancy has started multipple debates on the SUMMERTIME AWARD. But the best example of BSA's inconsistancy is venture/Venturing. From Aug. 1989 to Aug. 1998, a venture crew was what you called your older Scout patrol, were called Venture Scouts, and had their own additional awards they could earn in the Varsity/Venture Letter and the assorted pins. Then BSA decided to call tradional Exploring ''Venturing'' when it split, its units ''crews'' and its Member ''Venturers''. It was mentioned to the nat. Venturing dir. The use of similar terms, and. the confusion it would, and continues 17 years later, to cause.

I've read some districts will combine the two so that the common materials are together, then split off into IOLS and WeLOT. I've seen it done where the course did IOLS then kept the Cub leaders a little long to talk about some of the differences. Anyone remember when national was going to combine to the courses?

WHO TOLD HIM HE NEEDS TO TAKE WFA?!?!?!?!?! (emphasis, ok shouting in shock!) My troop's Philmont expedition has an EMT going who went to Philmont 2 or 3 years ago, and his EMT cert allowed him to meet the WFA requirement when he went. Has this changed?

Remember there are options when yoour son looks for troops.

Sorry to hear about your son's troop. I know how it hurts when folks you worked with and looked up to folks who don't come to an ECOH that you invited them to. One of my cousin's is an Eagle. He got the invitation and said he would be there. I gave him two parts in the ceremony to perform. A few weeks before the ceremony, He backs out. Why? Because I am taking 1 course at his old university's arch rival. Luckily, one of my old SPL's was able to make it. He said he would try to get leave to make it, but no guarantees. He got leave and showed up. In addition to the very small part I put in the script for him in case he did make it, he got all of my cousin's parts. I must say putting him on the spot to talk about me led to a great roasting of me. He was SPL when I first became a PL, and he had to do a LOT of mentoring. I think my old SPL showing up was a heck of a lot better than having my cousin there.

Issue with the GTSS IMHO is that it is written by health and safety folks who are either using laws that reality should not apply to BSA ( remember when that little red wagon rule came out, it was based upon Department of Labor laws for business), or are heavily influenced by lawyers and our society's excessive demand for lawsuits. Heck I was even told to sue someone who helped me out when I was injured on the beach.

As a former DE who was contacted about a similar and asked my SE how to deal with it, I can tell you that "it is a unit problem." Good luck.

1) forgot to welcome you to the forums. 2) Love the VF-1J armoured Veritech that is your avatar.

Don't remind me about how easily folks get offended. Anyone hear about the girl who is suing her rescuer for rape? She said he touched her inappropriately and kissed doing CPR and she was not able to giver her consent. Now I read that it was a joke on one website, but on another it was real. And with the way folks are nowadays, I could believe it.

I've heard multiple reasons why they took the red out of the Boy Scout uniform. Some silly, i.e. someone at national didn't like red and BSA didnt want to look as if they favored one political party, to rational, i.e. subdued colors are LNT friendly. What I hated about the switchover was the lack of guidance and information by national and utter confusion and waste of money it caused. And Insignia Guide came out a year after the uniforms were unveiled and 9 months after the uniforms became available. Initially it said anyone wearing a Centennial Uniform (CU) had to go with the green on tan numbers, so of course Cub Scout leaders and Webelos getting new CUs got those tan and green numbers. Then around January rumors came out that Cub leaders and Webelos are suppose to wear the red and whites in the CUs. Then some literature came out with Webelos wearing red numbers on a tan background, that didn't even exist! In late April 2009, I joined a pack, and to get the correct colored numbers, I called my old National Scout Shop, to get an answer from a national source. I was told CU = green on tan numbers. I asked about the red on tan numbers, and was told they were a proposal that didn't go anywhere because it would be a 5th line of numbers that national would have to make. So I got the green on tan numbers. 2 weeks later, the IG comes out and says that CS leaders and Webelos wear red on whites. The only thing that national got correct IMHO was allowing ODL uniform items to be worn with the CUs per the literature that was in effect from May 2008 ( announcement) until May 2009 ( when IG came out) So I have no problem defending scouts at the district camporee's uniform inspection wearing the red and white numbers. Some things I say before the IG came out are the following: Venturers wearing the tan and green numbers and trained strips because " we were told only Cub Scouts wear red numbers" Cub Scouts in blue wearing tan and green because that was all that was left at the distributor and the parents didn't know better. Boy Scouts wearing the Venturing green loops Venturers wearing the Boy Scout green loops Suffice to say, I think the CUs were not thought out completely prior to being introduced. I think it shows when a new uniform shirt comes out within 5 years of one being introduced.

Yes, scouting IS family. Glad you are better, and keeping you in my prayers.

Tahawk, I think that the problem is the powers that be have no consistency in their publications. Now do they understand how the various programs work. Remember the terminology they used when the Centennial uniforms came out in 2008? I loved how the adult leader inspection sheets specified the new shirts for Boy Scouts leaders, and the old ones for Cub Scout leaders. And do not get me started on the green on tan numbers and trained strips vs the white on red numbers and red on tan trained strips. In regards to trained strips, G2AI shows 3 different types For shirts with pocket sleeves, the emblem is worn on the sleeve pocket flap above the badge of office; red, No. 18120, Cub Scout and Venturing leaders; forest green, No. 18064, Boy Scout leaders. For shirts without pocket sleeves, the emblem is worn on the left sleeve immediately below and touching the emblem of office for which it was earned; red, No. 280, Cub Scout and Venturing leaders; forest green, No. 18064, Boy Scout leaders. But then in one of the national training committee newsletters and on a BSA website, it states it any trained strip is appropriate for any position.

ROTF! Seriously though. I had one parent, buy a Duluth pack from a national scout shop thinking it would be appropriate for backpacking. I don't know if she asked for help, but I can tell you that not everyone who works for supply division knows what they are selling, or to outfit someone. I had one coworker who would send folks to me to help them out. And there is pressure to make sales. True story. My manager was furious at me because during a relatively quiet afternoon, I spent about 30-45 minutes talking to a new Boy Scout leader about camping gear. Talking about what to look for, different features and how they are used, size, and how to try out, i.e. bringing 25 pounds of gear to put in it. I even told the guy about other stores that may have backpacks that are better suited to him. He left without buying anything. Boss chewed me out, I think I lost 10-15 pounds in the glutus maximus from the chewing out He shows back up about 20 minutes later, brought some weight with him, and tried out some backpacks. Sold him a pack, mess kit, cutlery, hiking socks, and other stuff.

Oscar De La Renta

To quote the Doctor, 'RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!" I've had bad experiences with K-mart stuff. VERY BAD There are deals and programs out there. ALPS Mountaineering has the HIKERDIRECT.COM program. Coleman, which I am leery of, has a program. Other vendors have programs too. As for backpacking versus plop camping, let me elaborate. Yes indeed there are ways to get good backpacks inexpensively. I've mentioned facebook and ebay, But Government Surplus has been my friend for a very long time. But I personally like to give folks some time to look at, try on, and get a feel on what to look for in a backpack, as well as get a chacne to see what is out there. Grant you there are a lot more resources available in buying a backpack nowadays compared to when I bought my first backpack as a K-Mart special that broke on the 2nd trip I ever used it on, the week long backpacking trip I might add, but I like to give as much information and advice prior to buying a backpack. Don't want what happened to me to happen to someone else. Nor do I want someone buying a backpack designed for canoeing to be used on a backpacking trip.

Don't know the economic resoources of your scouts, but a good backpack may be out of reach for a new scoout initially. My troop does the plop camping. But with a group going to Philmont next year, we are slowly integrating backpping skills and gear. Just because you have backpacking gear, doesn't mean you cant plop camp. Heck, my son found a fully stocked chuck box at a yard sale for $40. Most of the gear was designed for packpacking!

10th ed. BSHB 1990, states what a field uniform is and has an image on page 566. Also has a descriptio of the activities uniform, field uniform with a polo shirt. That's the 1997 printing, and i think the image was changed because the 1990 ed, first printing SMHB, uses field and activity uniforms, and has pics on pages 231 to 233. The image of the uniforms also includes the tan activity shorts with white socks that they stopped producing around 1995. And yes, I have a pair of the tan shorts.

Part of how you respond and replys comes about your relationship and experineces with your Scouts. I will call them ''hoodlums'' at times becuase of a movie reference. One family joke that I modified for my oldest when Scouting, has now been applied to all of the Scouts in his patrol and a few others. And they modified it to use on the Adults in on it. However, I woould not use the ''go away you horrible Scout'' on a new Scout who would think I'm serious. What's funny is that on one camp out, the patrol had a pool on when I would say it.:-)

OUTSTANDING!

Thanks for the responses. I admit I got 4 selfish reasons for doing what I do : my Second Class Scout, my Webelos Cub Scout, my Wolf Cub Scout, and Payback. First 3 are obvious, but there is no way in Hades that I can pay back to the leaders how much their time, energy, and care meant to me. Closest is continuing their legacy.

My thoughts. 1. Make sure the Scouts have some sweat equity in the purchasing of equipment. I've seen good donated equipment abused 2. Once you figure out the gear you need, look at Craigslist.org, garage sales, etc to get stuff. 3. I love government surplus gear. As one of the ASM's would say, ''if it's designed for combat, it may survive Scouts.'' There are state programs where nonprofits and local government agencies can buy gear cheap. In NC, ALICE packs for $20, axes and saws for $10, etc. Good luck!

I know it is a very big deal. I knew going into this decision how important the troop is to the church. One reason why I wanted to talk to the SM and my friend the ASM/CM about it. I know first hand how important the relationship with the CO and units are, I do not want to damage that. The Church's relationship with the pack and troop is one of the reasons why I am glad my son picked the troop. All day I have been thinking about typing a letter, rescinding the offer to be SM, and emphasizing that I am formally relinquishing my job as a committee member and will serve as an ASM. Which I thought was done already back in June, but apparently wasn't. My goal is to take care of the Scouts. On a positive note, the BORs went well. 2 PLs are now Tenderfoot, one of the Scouts I had since 1st grade also is Tenderfoot, and Oldest is Second Class. AND he may be able to finish up the last requirement for First Class, cooking 3 meals on a single camp out and have his BOR by Holloween. Apparently the SM also didn';t realize it was a single camp out, and had been signing off after they had done a breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And the Tenderfeet did a great job.

How good a relationship do you have with the troop, and how much work is left to get AOL? If they are only waiting for the 6 months since completing 4th grade, see if the troop will let them visit meetibgs and go camping. Son's troop has an open door policy, and Webelos can go on any trip allowable by BSA. We had 2 Webelos do hiking while the troop worked on backpacking and hiking. Another thing if they are chomping at the bit. Cross them over as soon as they are 10.5 or in December.