Eagle94-A1

AMEN. My troop has had some real issues of late. In regards to challenges, when one NSP member complained about the lack of challenging campouts of late, another member said "quit complaining. We want easy camp outs." Not happy about that. Found out the Philmont trip is cancelled due to lack of leadership being able to go ( VERY LONG STORY). BUT we already had a weekend trip planned and are still going. Same guy who did the prep trip planning, approached the group with an idea to do a 50 mile section of the AT. Catch is that some folks who were not qualified for Philmont would need to be going, so it would be opened up. Long story short, they were ecstatic to do it, and 2 folks who were not going to Philmont are doing the AT. One wasn't going due to age. But he's been backpacking since age 8, including a 40 miler. Other has no interest at all in rank, so he can't go to Philmont.

As others have mentioned, Scout Sabbath is this Saturday. My troop's CO is doing Scout Sunday this Sunday. It's been a week behind since Oldest joined. I thought part of the reason is that we go camping after putting out the Scouting for Food flyers. Picking up the food, counting, and delivering to the food bank takes a lot longer. But I just discoverd that The United Methodist Church celebrate Scout Sunday on the second Sunday of February as not to conflict with Transfiguration Sunday. Now the CO of the pack my younger two are in is interesting. When we first joined, we did it in March and did it with the Girls Scouts in attendance. It was only when I mentioned we were celebrating Scout Sunday a month late, that the leader coordinating Scout Sunday with the CO realized that the Girl Scout Sunday is different than Boy Scout Sunday. When we arranged Scout Sunday the following year, we had it scheduled a week late. It was the Sunday before Valentine's Day, and the sermon was a little too much for some of the Cubs and parents attending. We didn't have another one until this year.

My youngest son's den is having some issues with leadership. When I move to Boy Scouts, I was hoping they would find a DL to replace me. It took longer than they anticipates, and he would a weird schedule where he can make meetings every other week. they have earned no belt loops at this time, but have done a ton of requirements across the spectrum of belt loops.

Younger sons' pack had Scout Sunday Service at the CO. Their pack and almost all of the units in the council Did Scouting for Food part 1 yesterday, and will do Part 2 next week. Oldest son's troop and I also did a camp out. We have "Scout Sunday" next week.

Forgot to add right after I quit being a DE and I left the area briefly, the council decided to harvest all the trees in the camp. There was a major protest, especially from those with local Girl Scout connections. The Girl Scouts after a merger clear cutted two camps and sold them off. Council backed down. A few years later new SE comes in. Pro-local camp and spent some money and energy cleaning up the camp and making improvements (remember the year of the big snow storms? Hell froze over not only because the Saints won the Superbowl, but a SE was doing "cheerful service" at an OA Ordeal ). Anyway the topic of harvesting trees comes up again. While their was some initial fury at even talking about it, when he and others went out to the RTs and other Scouting meetings to talk why cutting was needed (fire hazards, needed more usable space for campsites, parking, and new structures at camp), what areas it was going to be done in ( not the entire camp selected areas cleared, but most would be thinned), as well as how it was going to be done ( hand logging; More money to do it, but minimal impact on camp). People calmed down a bit. But when the word that the loggers cut a little more than they were suppose to, people got ticked off again, until they saw the camp. That extra bit revealed a campsite that hadn't been used in ages ( some of the old timers even forgot about the campsite), and the camp looked nice. With the reforestation program they did, 7 years later the camp looks AWESOME. One new building has been built, and one building is in the planning stages. That one is trickier due to EPA regs. As for what happens if the council decides to do away with the camp, I'm betting a lot of FOS dollars will go towards buying the camp from the family. Considering that some of the family that gave us the land are still active in Scouting, as well as THE biggest donors to the council love the camp (they renamed the main camp in the family's honor), it may be purchased by volunteers.

I do not know all of the details, even when I was a DE. But my understanding is that the camp is in a trust. We ever decide to give up the camp, it goes back to the family that donated it in the 1920s. One of my worst fears is that the camp will no longer be used by the council. The family has developed the area, and McMansions are springing up around the camp. That happened to the original council camp in my home council growing up. The city kept expanding its jurisdiction until the camp was inside city limits. neighbors complained about all the traffic and racket. Even though we were there when it was a swamp.

i prefer the old Show, Tell, Do method of instruction. But I think the acronym is not Scout friendly.

In my council,we do Scouting for Food. Saturday before the official Scouting week, we put out flyers. Scout Sabbath is spent collecting the food, and bringing it to local food pantries. We made the switch for two reasons way back when. 1) To do a service project during Scout Week and 2) we found the food pantries in our area needed the food most in February. Lots of groups do food collecting in the Nov-Dec time frame for Thanksgiving and Christmas. And sometimes they have a bit of food left over for January. But come February, they are very low on supplies. My troop does put up a window display at a local buisness and does Scout Sunday. Part of that is tradition. Part of that is it is part of the point system used in our council camporee.

Mea culpa. That was a very good lesson for me. Even when dealing with issues, have situational awareness.

Yes, our OA sells candy bars and drinks. They also sell coffee, hot cocoa, fruit, and non food items. With our big Cub Scout event, they sell Hot Dog Lunch Plates. I bought a pair of "experienced" Scout pants for middle son, and some vintage POR patches for me. We've sold book bags, ponchos, books, coffee mugs, and all kinds of stuff. At one point, our council decided to let the original camp go to pieces. Minimal support. Anything that needed repairing or done, the local OA chapter and troops had to do. It's one reason why my troop always wants the same campsite year after year: they were the ones that bought the supplies for, and dug the lines for, the water spigot in the campsite. They also helped build a bridge connecting it to another campsite Prior to our just recently retired SE who made the camp a priority, my chapter was the ones that bought 50-60% of the tools, paid for maintenance, repairs, and improvements to the QM shed, and took care of the camp after hurricanes. Even with more being invested, we've still bought the supplies and built 1 new shelter, repaired a second shelter, bought the supplies need to fix some Adirondacks. And all the money came from the trading post. One thing the OA did, but we had to cut it since we lost our donor, was a lunch fellowship NC style pig-pickin. We raised a lot of money with that pig-pickin, and had a lot of fun too.

I know an SM who did that at Philmont. He's been there before and knew when the crew took the wrong path. He just followed along. 1.5 hours later, they realize they took the wrong trail. OOPS. I know when I was caboose one time on a troop backpacking trip, the Scouts I was with missed the switchback that led to the campsite. I didn't even know we missed it as I was following the leader, and trying to keep one of our new guys encouraged. THANKFULLY the LC sent out a search party, and we only had to double back about 15-20 minutes.

I've decided not to post on the blog because I need to "...knock it off with them negative waves." I think changing the MBs as well as the ranks just about every year IS a recipe for a mess. I've already cited the case about the Scout who had to get an extension for Eagle because he used one set of requirements with his old troop, only to find out when he went to a new troop the requirements had changed, and his old troop should have notified him of the changes. Heck 1/2 the troop was concerned about the rank requirements, and that was after me going over it several times.

With the exception of the OA trading post, I could live with it. Reason for the OA exemption is that the trading post money goes to OA projects at the camp, and a campership to summer camp. And the OA needs some money at the moment. We just finished fully refurbishing a shelter, and are in the middle of rebuilding a bridge from one campsite to the rest of the camp. In fact, I think we don't have the campership money for this year, hoping to sell enough at a Webeloree next month to cover the campership.

9MM was actually mentioned by someone. Trek leader said " Too Heavy" Forgot to add, I had a brand recommended, approved by the EPA, so I ordered it. Thanks guys. I just hope I won't need it.

We got a group needing some backpacking practice before Philmont. Since I missed the last backpacking trip, I'm definitely going this round. Going into bear country, and I'm not worried about "Bear Bells." I dance both Northern Traditional and Southern Straight, so bells aren't an issue. Bear repellent is something new for me. Any recommendations on brand and size? I am an old fogey now with a slight arm issue, so I am now trying to minimize weight as much as possible. Thanks in advance. Eagle94-a1

Yep #3 "Perfume" = Girls. #4 'Car fumes" supports #3 since most girls won't go out with you unless you drive, at least in my neck of the woods growing up. And #5 definitely supported #4 and #3 habits.

In regards to popcorn, after being a DE, I tired of it rather quickly. had a unit do popcorn sales, pay for it, then folded. I was unable to get in contact with anyone affiliated with the pack, and trust me I tried. All I wanted was the order sheets so I could get the popcorn delivered to those who bought it. Sadly, I ended up eating the pocorn for a long time.

One of the best fundraisers I ever heard about was a Snow Removal Service a troop did in SE Louisiana. For those who may not know it, SE Louisiana is semi-tropical, and the only time I ever remember it snowing was when the Saints won the Superbowl. Only natural if Hell froze over, so too New Orleans and surrounding areas.

"Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt. When I did SM specific last year, for every part of the syllabus I used a BP or Green Bar Bill quote as an intro. Syllabus does not do enough of a good job in regards to patrol method, planning etc. I used other resources, including older sources, to get the information the information I thought was vital to being an SM or ASM. Finally I told them to go to Roundtables, make friends with SMs and UCs who have "been there, done that," and get some mentoring and advising from them when needed.

OK, I think I need to clarify. We didn't have a feeder pack until I was 17 . However we would invite Webelos dens to come to set meetings and a camp out. But there was a lot of word of mouth. Folks talking to friends, folks bored with their units and transferring, etc. Initially our Webelos meetings were "ringers" and we would have the SWAT team come out. Then talk about, and do, a normal camp out. Did that two years. Third year was interesting. We had the SWAT team come out and talked about the upcoming camp out. Night before our camp out was our normal meeting nite, and we went to prepare the trailer for the morning. Game plan was to have everything ready so we could load up the packs and GO! However, when we opened the brand new storage shed,we were hit with a stench, broken glass, and wet gear. Between our last camp out the month before, and the meeting nite, our new shed developed a bunch of leaks. So we had no equipment. Thinking fast, we decided to do a wilderness survival camp out with the Webelos instead of cancelling. It went better than anticipated, and became our standard recruiting tool. Over the years, we improved upon it, and it became so popular that we had an ASM drive 3 hours from college to the CO, then drive another 1.5 hours with the troop to do the wilderness survival trip. Yep he loved the Wilderness Survival weekends ever since he did it as a Webelos. Way we did it was teach some basic pioneering skills at the meeting, enough for the Webelos to help build the shelter. Over time, we also did utensiless cooking. At the camp out, we would spend the morning building the shelters. Initially it was patrol sized shelters but it morphed over the years to include whatever the Scouts wanted. Sometimes we would have patrol in a shelter, sometimes 2-3 Scouts, and with those working on the MB, individual shelters. Webelos were usually in patrol or 2-3 man shelters. Afternoons were spent doing pioneering and other competitions. We divided the Webelos into existing patrols and would have fun with them. After dinner, one giant game of manhunt, capture the flag, Civil War, whatever you wanted to call the game.

I've found the best retention and recruiting tool is an active program. One that camps nearly every month. And if you don't go camping, you need some type of activity instead. My troop growing up kept folks active until 18 and a lot stayed on as ASMs. If they did quit, it was for one of the following reasons: 1) Didn't like camping. 2) School/ Sports 3) Perfume 4) Car fumes 5) Job ( to support their perfume and car fume habit). 6) college/ military My son's troop isn't focused on advancement. We are not as organized as some troops, both the adult organized and youth organized ones. His troop focuses on putting the "OUTING in ScOUTING." They camp 11 times a year, with a lock in the 12th time. When we had to cancel a trip due to too many Scouts not being able to attend due to school, we postponed it and did 2 trips in one month. My troop didn't have a feeder pack until I turned 17. We recruited by word of mouth. We also had a great program we used; Wilderness Survival.

Alas the G2SS states that no one wheel, two wheel, or four wheel carrying devices can be used by those under 14. HOWEVER nothing in the G2SS states anything about 3 wheeled carrying devices.

So does your troop use ceremonies? My current troop only does one thing ceremony wise, and that is at Cross Overs. The Court of Honor I attended was just handing out awards, and was over and done with in under 15 minutes. My troop growing up used ceremonies extensively. When we got new Scouts, once we got a commitment from them and they earned the Scout badge, we had a candlelit ceremony inducting them into the troop. Their PL was involved and had a few lines. But depending upon the SPL or ASPL, either he or the SM did the bulk of talking in the ceremony. . However SPL or ASPL ALWAYS led the Scout Oath and Law during the ceremony, with the PL holding the troop flag, and the SM lighting candles. SM always ended with SM Benediction. For Court of Honors, SPL or ASPL ran the show. We did a variation of of the induction ceremony to start off the court of honor. Prior to presenting ranks, one of the current at rank Scouts would say or read from a script. Exception was Scout, as we sometimes had a current Tenderfoot do that part. Once the ranks were presented, the adults presented the MBs and special awards. Then SM ended with SM Benediction. When we had changes in leadership, we did a ceremony in conjunction with the COH. If the current SPL was there, he would either say or read from a script an intro of what the SPL does. Then he would use a modified Scout Oath to install the new SPL. If the SPL wasn't there, the SM would do it. The new SPL would then say a few things about the duties of the PL, call them forward, lead them in a modified Scout Oath, and install them as PLs. Eagle COHs were a little different. SM or CC would run it, depending upon who the Eagle wanted. At one point we had a CC who camped and attended meetings, so he also had relationships with some of the Scouts. The Eagle got to pick who did what parts. Mostly it was Scouts from the troop. But certain parts required Eagles. So leaders, former Scouts, and family members were used. I had my old SPL who mentored me "roast" me, and when my cousin and uncle didn't show up, he also did the " Eagle challenge" and Eagle Charge. Glad he was back from Desert Storm for the ECOH. I always though the ceremonies inspired and reminded folks of Scouting is all about. Your thoughts.

Don't know where the rules came from. I've only been attending meetings on a regular basis since June. This November was the first election I saw first hand. Next elections will be May. Actually I suggested to the SPL to do the elections the last week in April, then do a formal "change of command" at a court of honor the first meeting in May. One thing that the troop is missing IMHO is Ceremonies. With the exception of Cross Overs, there are no ceremonies, including COHs. Went to one, and it was over and done with in under15 minutes. R%est of the time was socializing. Going to start a thread on ceremonies in a minute. In regards to the NSP when my son joined, it was an adult driven idea. He knew some folks from the other pack, but was close friends with only 1 person. Eventually he had 2 friends transfer from another troop, and because they were not First Class, were automatically placed in the NSP. Current NSP is also adult driven. The SM picked two Scouts from the true NSP to be moved in orignal NSP with no consideration as to who wanted to stay and who wanted to go. One Scout, the Frustrated one from another post, is focused on getting First Class ASAP, so he can get out of his patrol and move to the older Scout patrol. That's if he doesn't leave the troop first. EDITED: for clarification purposes If you go by official BSA literature, our 'Older Scout patrol" is technically a "Mixed Aged" patrol since they are 13-14 year olds with one 15 year old. Two folks in that patrol are not First Class yet, (but should be). All but one in the patrol is going to Philmont. Our Frustrated Scout was told get First Class he moves up to that patrol when he joined the troop. In fact Everyone was told get First Class and they move up to that patrol. I think the only reason they kept those not First Class in the patrol is because they were the original troop members when my son joined.

Usually guys with experience, and if they are NCS certified even more so, get pulled in multiple directions that do affect their performance in their districts. I had 2 years of summer camp experience, and was an NCS certified C.O.P.E. director. I also had heavy program experience via being involved with the OA as a lodge officer and OA chapter adviser. Needless to say, I spent a lot of time working program events and spent the entire summer at camp. While I enjoyed the work, especially working with volunteers to create a good program, these duties were not part of my evaluation. And when others had their roundups planned, new unit prospects lined up, and district nominating committee up and running, I was way behind. One thing that was on my eval, Cub Scout day camp, I was not able to support fully since I was at camp. Long story short, I was moved from one position where I could leave occasionally, to one where I had to remain at camp while in operation. So I could not support day camp. It was only after summer that I discovered the issues that the day camp had ( 7 Cubs in attendance ?!?!?!?!?!)