Eagle94-A1

I think folks are more concerned about A. allowing Scout activities to be open to parents which is something BSA has promoted, and B. financial situation of families. I am so glad my oldest is out and Middle ages out this year. But if these prices were around when all 5 of us in my family were involved, it would be over $400 just to register.

On a different note, any idea why Webelos are not allowed to camp at Camporees once again? I know for a fact that policy was rescinded in 2014 becuase it was no long listed in the GTSS for a number of years. The council I am in encouraged troop to have Webelos camp with them as a recruiting tool. And when the policy came back into effect int he past few years, the council had a camporee already planned, had promotional materials sent and publicized to both Webelos and Troops, and had activities planned for the Webelos to do. Pros allowed it to happen because it was already planned and no notice that the policy was being reinstated went out to them in advance. So it was the last camporee with Webelos camping. STUPID DECISION AS IT WAS THE BEST RECRUITING TOOL TO MOTIVATE WEBELOS TO CROSS OVER.

If "overnight" only means one night, then why is the definition of a Webelos Scout Overnight defined as "Webelos Scout overnighter A one- or two-night campout by Webelos Scouts and their parent or guardian." https://www.scouting.org/resources/los/

Good catch. A two night weekend camp out is a 'single overnight experience.

Especially since it appears that not even a SE knew about this rule. And why can councils do multinights, but not units? I've known packs that not only had BSA qualifcations for Cub Camping, but Scout and advanced outside agencies, i.e. SAR, Swift Water rescue, ad nauseum.

As someone involved in Scouting since before Cub Scout packs could conduct overnight camping trips, and as someone who taught BALOO, this "Single Overnight Experience Policy" is indeed new. I have never seen it written in any BSA literature I have or used to teach BALOO that limited Cub Scout packs to 1 night. This is going to hurt many packs now, and in the future, especially when all the camp closures come about due to the bankruptcy. On a different note, what happens in those councils that do not have a list of approved campsites? And when asked about the approval process are told "Cubs don't need to camp." I ask because because there are councils out there that do not have a list, so packs use the OA's Where To Go Camping. Especially since state parks meet the Cub Scouts standards better than their own camps.

I know of units that this happen to in regards to popcorn. The council was not accepting returns, despite saying they would, and charged the units for the unsold popcorn they said they would accept back. In some cases they charges the unit accounts at the Scout office and would not refund the money they took. Most of the units no longer do popcorn as a result, nor do they use unit accounts at the office anymore. We had one unit go through the Money Earning Application process for a fundraiser, and the council would not approve it unless they got a cut. I do not remember how much, but it was in the range of 10% - 25%. Long story short, the CO's Men's club had a fundraiser, and paid the Scouts to work it. As for FOS donations, another unit was given a quota to raise. That Unit has a lot of kids on some type of assistance and received help from the CO. One of the Scouters was thinking about seeing if the troop could pay the quota for everyone. But after one of the former Scouters, who was then on the district level, was verbally abused by the professional staff, word got around and the committee said "NO!"

I am going to hazard a guess that it varies from council to council , i.e. the number of MBUs they offer. I know that some MBUs are hosted by organizations and colleges, and they want those expert MBCs. I would guess 85%+ are already registered in a paid position.

@RichardB, when you going to remove the lie about Dodgeball from the Prohibited Activities FAQ? Dodgeball, and several variants have been approved BSA games since at least 1929's Scoutmaster Handbook. As recently as 2010, it was approved. A lot of comments from long time Scouters is the lack of trust and transparency we are seeing at the national and council levels. The Dodgeball lie does not help matters.

@KublaiKen, Well, BSA's insurance was suppose to cover all the COs and councils from lawsuits. We are seeing how that is working out.

My council must get some pathetic SEs then. Do not have the records since the new SE came aboard, but the old one, before firing, made about $150K total compensation. That is approximately 682% of the median income in some areas of the council ( yes in some areas median income is $22,000/year) And the services provided to this area was negligible at best. There is more to it than compensation. Yes DEs are paid poorly overall and can make double, and in one case quadruple, their income by switching jobs. Being appreciated and treated with respect was the #1 issue with the pros I worked with. The abuse the SE and DFS heaped upon the DEs caused many of my coworkers to quit. And the numbers rigging. Do not get me started. In my experience as both a pro and volunteer, these folks are EXTREMELY rare. They either luck out and follow the coattails of other rare pros, are they get sick and tired of the abuse and games, and quit.

We were told by some executive board members that after they fired the SE for running the council into the ground (just looked at the financials and HOW could the exec board not realize the SE was ruining the council when it was went into the red over $1 million over a 4 year period), that they could look for folks with outside experience for the SE. Do not know how true that was as the current SE is a lifelong professional. You are correct, National gives the exec board a slate of candidates that they interview and pick. Although see above. I know when my council went thru this process, and I discovered someone I worked with was on the list, I wrote a detailed letter about the individual, and had a 90 minute meeting with the head of the selection committee. They were not selected.

@Momleader I concur with @RichardB. I would work with council to create a smaller twilight camp in your area. There is a lot of liability involved, and you do not want that on you, that is what councils are for. In my neck of the woods, the districts are so large now, that each district has multiple day camps/twilight camps that correspond to the old district boundaries. We only have 3 packs remaining in the area.

One of my Eagles told me how in Iraq, the plastic tensioners on the tents kept breaking. So he used a Tautline Hitch on his ten to fix the problem. His platoon's Gunnery Sgt. sees him doing this, and has him teach everyone in the platoon hot to do this so that when they break, they know what to do.

If this chart shows what is coming next year. I fear my troop will die, as will most units in my area. We are in an economically disadvantage area. Many families are lower class. Over 1/2 my troop is on some type of assistance to remain registered, and the remaining family can barely afford Scouting as it is. Glad one will age out, and the other just earned Eagle, pending national approval. As for the $240 Adventure Fee, is that to pay for a monthly camp out at a council camp? WE can get it cheaper per person going to other, more adventurous places.

So I have been seeing a lot of posts on FB with people passing their Eagle Board of Review, and having Eagle neckerchiefs, slides, and in a few cases medals being worn immediately after the EBOR. Now I am seeing folks either planning their Eagle Court of Honor before their paperwork comes back from National (5 cases), and in the instances last night before their Eagle BOR. Yep, sat on 3 EBORs and their joint ECOH is this Sunday. In all the cases, the SM was able to purchase the presentation kits. One SM purchased "replacement" presentation kits because he is an Eagle, and used his credentials to get them. But the other SM was travelling, saw a scout shop ( I assume council owned as National Scout shops require verification) and got the 3 kits last month. So is this the new trend, or something just in my area?

There are many in my neck of the woods that are so tired of the lies and lack of transparency, that they are hoping that the council mergers happen sooner rather than later. We've already lost one camp, and slated to lose another. Money from those two camps will go to the the main camp' s improvements. And the main camp needs an additional $5 million in improvements, so they willhave a capital campaign,. Either the pros are not telling the board what is going on, or the board has their head in the sand. And considering the last SE was fired by the board, a lot of us think it is the former. It has been leaked a that national will force a lot of camp closures as we supposedly have an overabundance of camps. As for Program Changes, The leaked CHURCHILL PLAN already stated the max age across all programs, Sea Scouts, OA, Exploring, and Venturing will be 18. And while a grass roots movement stymied that, National did state in their press release that they reserve the right to review the age limits in the future. PLEASE! (That's me begging, not shouting ) 90+% of the time, what is heard here, and elsewhere is accurate. I know I have posted stuff from here, including press releases, and have been asked to take them down, even the press releases. I have found out things before pros have. Again there is a major lack of transparency in my council. I hope we survive that long. My council has been of very little help.

I know when the June 2015 Program Changes came out, they started releasing info in January 2015. However when the December 2016 changes came out, they gave no advance warning, including no warning to the committee that created the June 2015 program. There was so little notice when December 2016 came out, that my pack decided to continue using the June 2015 program until the end of the school year since the changes made would have affected the plans we made for the rest of the school year.

@lithigin, It may be considered adding to requirements if you attempt to discuss what was said in the family meeting. I would be extremely ticked off if a counselor attempted to discuss what went on at the meetings with my sons. Don't even get me started at how angry I would be if other Scouts were around for the conversation. Let me summarize what happened a similar situation I encountered regarding Requirement 6.B.2. IT CAUSED AN ARGUMENT AMONGST THOSE INVOVLED (major emphasis). The discussion led to remembering events better forgotten. Folks were accused of making up stuff, and others at the event getting involved, and reliving the nightmare. It was a disaster and the accusation of "airing dirty laundry" was made. As a Family Life MBC, I help them plan it, and make sure they do it. But I ask for no details.

We did a 5 day/4 night summer camp on our own durng COVID. $10/ person was the cost to use the camp for the entire week, and it was a primitive camp. Food was less than $8 a day, and our guys can currently get a weekend for $20. We were able to use another troop's canoes for free. It was well under $100 I would talk to the Scouts and see what they want to do. Also make sure the schedule is flexible. The only thing we had fixed is Thursday Night BORs because we had committee members drivng in to do them. Our bike trek took longer than scheduled, and wore them out. So we had free time afterwards instead of an activity. The forecast had rain the night of the survival shelters, so we moved nites. Again schedule was flexible except got BORs, and we had 3 that night. Just make sure everyone is on board with no MBs. My CC and Scouts want MBs, even the 2 who do not need them. Good luck

My CC who said the comments is a 20 veteran who has been to Philmont and WB with no kids in the program anymore. YOB TOVU MAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Non of my Scouts could afford that.

If I had my way, instead of summer camp, we would be doing our own HA trip. Unfortunately not only is my CC pushing MBs and advancement, but that is what the Scouts want as well. Heck the camp we are going to, which is charging $330, suggests having the last period open to take advantage of free shooting, swimming, and boating, and the comment made "you are paying for classes, need to take advantage of them." When we were looking at camps, most were over $400. Few, if any, of my Scouts could afford them. I suggested a weeklong backpacking trip on the AT, and was told it would be a wasted summer because they couldn't earn MBs. Same person said while Philmont was great, it was a wasted trip because the Scouts didn't earn any MBs.

@InquisitiveScouter, That was the 2022 price. Here are the 2023 prices. And note they are subject to change. That is over $100 more than what we are paying.

OH MY WORD! Did you see the prices for their summer camp. And that does not include tents or cots, which are extra. My Scouts were interested, until they saw the price tag My worry is that when all the council mergers start, and camps start being sold, Summit will be the closest option for us. On a different note, I wonder what those council camps that are "leased" by councils will do.

You mean pull from members and volunteers via councils.