Eagle94-A1

A few years back, I saw some green pants at Walmart that were 99% identical to the current Boy Scout pants. the 1% difference was that they were hemmed. Like Stosh, I too am using pants and shorts from the 1990s still. I do have a pair of the original Switchbacks, the ones that were sized to large and had the zippers at the ankles. Ebay is my friend, find oldr uniform items there. Also OA trading post at family camp had some old uniform items.

Actually nope, Walmart Express closed them down, before the Walmart Express closed down. What I liked about neighborhood troops was that the entire patrol could meet and shop as a patrol. No one person had to do the shopping, and usually we would get some splurge items for the camp out if we had money left over.

I admit, I've been negative of late. I'm tired of seeing the same problems over and over again. But more importantly as a dad I am tired of seeing my son get frustrated by both the Scouts he's working with, and with the adults. And that does include me. So I'm going to "knock it off with them negative waves," and be a proud dad for a change. Then I'm moving on to the proud leader. Son is doing an outstanding job, all things considered. He's taking care of his patrol, working with individuals as needed. He is encouraging those who need it, and correcting those who need correction. Talking to him last nite made me realize he to is walking a hire wire. He balancing doing the stuff for the PL versus trying to mentor the PL. And when the adults get out of the way, work does get done. he's come a long way. As for the patrol, they are realizing that voting has consequences. Some realize that they need to look at who can do the job and get things done, instead of who their best buddy is. They are finally starting to get it.

Tell me about it. Good news is that the it looks like that particular scout will not be buying food again for the patrol. Next two up for shopping are folks who actually do the shopping, although the dads do help, i.e. drive and push the carts. Last one to do the shopping before the troop reorganization, and from talking to some of the older Scouts that looks to happen, Oldest wants to take shopping. It's one of his friends, lives down the street, and last time dad did the shopping since he was sick. Yep dad did the shopping and dropped off the food. I so wish the troop was an old school neighborhood troop. But we got folks from all over the county, some driving 20 minutes one way to attend the troop.

Forgot to add, there was one comment that has been bugging me. When the patrol announced steaks for dinner, one of the ASMs, whose son is in the patrol, made the comment, "If (son) has to get the food, momma aint buying steak." This is from someone who knows better too as he has been fully trained and is an Eagle.

Update from tonite's meeting. Due to family issues, SPL couldn't make it and the plan was not relayed to the ASPL. So the patrols were told to start planning for the next camp out. Oldest asked me to ride herd on the adults, and keep them out of the way. I rode herd on teh adults, kicking two out of their room they were in. They actually got stuff done. OK I did have to go in after the troop scribe who started causing some distractions, but otherwise the patrol started working as a patrol. I'm told the PL was acting up a bit, and the newest member actually step up to the plate and got some things organized. But it went a lot smoother than in the past. I am hoping this keeps up.

I've learned to live with binders through my job. Because the medical field is constantly changing, policies and procedures change on a regular basis. Heck I remember a few years back, we changed one policy twice in a 4 month period!

Lots of possible reasons. With the CS den and the youngest, he hated sharing my attention with the others. Kinda jealous that the others had their parents or grandparents working with me and the Cubs, and he had to share. Didn't matter that we would do a lot together at home. I admit he was one of the reasons why I went to Boy Scouts early, because he would behave and learn more without me there. And I was right.

We do. Unfortunately appointed by the SM. They mirror the troop level PORs, i.e Scribe, QM, etc and the idea behind it is that it trains them for troop level POR,. Idea does work, my troop growing up had the PL assign positions, and they helped get them trained.

Well I talked to son some more about the camp out idea. For the most part, he likes the idea of getting the NSP away from everyone and being completely on their own. He does feels obligated to stay with them instead of going back to his old patrol that weekend since they are his responsibility. Can't fault him for that one bit. I briefly talked to one leader about it, one who has a son in the patrol. "About time" was his comment. Going to talk to the SPL, or if oldest wants to do the talking, then let him talk to the SPL about the idea. On a side note, gotta make sure the helicopter parents stay out of the way. I had an interesting conversation today at my youngest son's birthday party with a mom from another troop. Long story short, she was upset that the leaders "weren't doing anything but talking while the boys did all the work." When they told her it was the boys job to do the counting for Scouting for Food, she replied, I want to get out of her before tonite," and kept on counting.

Council advancement committees decide whether to di unit based EBORs with a district rep, or District EBORs. You don't follow the procedures, the paperwork can be delayed until done by the council policy. Growing up, the Scout always introduced himself, stated his current rank, and requested a _______ BOR. That was for all BORs. Eagle was done on the unit level with at least one district rep.THANKFULLY I HAD TWO DISTRICT REPS! ( emphasis and another story for another time). It wasn't until I moved to my current council that I heard of district level BORs, and SMs introducing the Eagle Candidates.

Be advised of the following. 1) National training Committee has come out and stated it does not matter what color centennial trained patch you wear. So Cub leaders can wear the centennial tan and green and Boy Scout leaders can wear the centennial sized red on tan. So you do not need to change your trained strip once you get the POR specific training 2) When the literature came out in regards to the centennial uniforms, it stated that the older uniform items, aka "Oscar de lea Rentas" and "ODLs", and the Centennial Uniforms items were interchangeable. So you don't need to change the numbers either if you are within the same CO. 3) While now the literature shows Webelos and Cub Scout leaders wearing the white on red numbers, the literature that came out with the CUs showed everyone wearing the tan and green numbers. So if Cub leaders or Webelos are in tan and greens, they are wearing "Vintage" 2008-2009 uniforms. 4) Did they ever make the tan on red numbers? I saw one BSA flyer online for about a week that had the Cub leaders and Webelos in red numbers on a tan background. In reference to Vintage uniforms and insignia, yep it's a pain to find the stuff. I finally gave up looking for the blue on gold CS diamond pack numbers for my wife's uniform. I went ahead and used the fully embroidered red and white numbers. Only the die hard historians will know she's wearing the wrong numbers. Yep I finally seduced her to the Dark Side again. And she's upgraded to wearing a uniform this time since she is an ADL instead of a committee member.

BLW2, My troop growing up was one of those with minimal adults active, basically enough to get the Scouts and gear to and from the camp. When I was PL/TG of the NSP during testing, I didn't run to the adults for help, I ran to my SPL, ASPL and a few other older, LC members. You wouldn't go to the adult campsite because that was a bad sign, unless SPL. The Adults campsite was comparable to going to the principle in school. Ditto if they came into your campsite, other than to sample the food

Actually not my first time with NSPs. My troop was one of the troops that experimented with it in the mid to late 1980s, before it became official in 1989. I was placed as PL, what today would be called the TG back in 1986 - 1987. The NSP concept was so bad with my troop, that we abandoned the idea, even when it became BSA policy. Idea came about again with my troop when we had another, brand new trip decide to piggy back with us. Within 6 months, the two troops merged, and we did away with the NSP by reorganizing patrols. Basically the plan I proposed with to the other adults. I know for a fact my negative views towards NSPs stem from these two instances. In the first case, when I was PL, it was my SPL, ASPL, and a few of the LC members who helped me out before issues got as bad as the ones I'm encountering. In the second instance, I was the ASPL, so I took the TG and PL under my wing and spent a lot of time with that patrol. At the moment our "older Scout patrol" is not in a position to do what my mentors did. The other concern is me turning it into a Cub Scout den. If I was still a Scout, I'd have no problem doing some of the things I've needed to be done since I see it really as youth responsibilities. When I ask myself "Is this something I would see Mr____, Mr.________, or Mr. _________ doing?" And usually the answer is NO. But who is there to do the job? And if I don't do it in the best Scout-like way, making them think and coming up with answers, won't the other adults just tell them exactly what to do? Yes. Like I've mentioned previously, balancing act. Please keep them coming. Good ideas, causing a lot of introspection. On a lighter note: As for the sharp objects, Tomahawk Tossing is one of the events at camporee again this year, and I own 1/2 of the tomahawks the troop will be practicing with.

Fred, The large influx of new Scouts in December refers to the potential to have 14 - 24 new Scouts coming from 2 packs. One pack has 14, and we may lose a few to a neighboring troop since their CO no longer has a pack (troop's leadership is OK with this). The other Pack has 10 Webelos, but has very limited relations with their CO's troop, despite repeated attempts and begging to get the troop involved in ANY way with the Webelos. Troop didn't even do Scouting for Food or Scout Sunday at the CO with the pack.

Back. Talked to oldest about using a planned trip to isolate the patrol from the rest of the troop, and keep the adults away. He thought it is a good idea, and may work. Then when I mentioned he would go back to his old patrol his comment was "OOOOHHHHHH. Can I bring a video camera and tape it?" Thank you all for the advice and recommendations. Please keep them coming. Sometimes you get so wrapped up in a situation, you don't see the alternatives.

Qwasze, Nope, you are spot on. 2 years in the troop, 1yr 6 months as a committeee member; 7 months as an ASM, although 2 months of that was limited due to injury. Oh Son was a PL prior to being SPL. Fred, Understand completely. We have a parents who are former CS leaders we are trying to reign in. One idea an ASM is doing is card games for the adults. We actually had 1 new crossover leader join in the game and not shadowing his son. And elevated blood pressure is an understatement. As for organizing a patrol meeting, that was the troop guide trying to do that. He wanted a meeting before the January Lock In to go over supplies, decide if they want to change the name of the patrol and make a new flag or keep it, and have some goof off time. As for camp outs, my job from the SM and ASMs is to be the NSP ASM and work with them as needed. Unfortunately they are acting more like a Webelos Den than a Boy Scout patrol.And with the exception of 2 of them, they should know better. We actually had the conference with the mom due to a situation that did arise. That's when we found out some of the things going on. Biggest challenge is that he is only attending meetings about 50% of the time. In thinking about camp outs, my memory is fuzzy, But since May I don't think he's been camping with the troop. Part of the behavior and attendance problem is the custody situation. More in a bit

Actually me yelling at them DID throw all of them off. It also threw off the rest of the troop, and the adults. One of my friends stated, " I've never seen you get that angry in the 7 years I've known you. And you dealt with Cubs." We tried to get a patrol meeting outside of the troop night and we met fierce resistance from the parents. A patrol only camp out may not be feasible, especially with how many camp outs the troop does a month. BUT we got a camp out coming up that may be the perfect, if we have the area to ourselves. Local nature preserve has several campsites 90 to 500+ yards apart. The tentative schedule is practicing the camporee events. Distance is your friend (one challenge solved). Competition is your friend (challenge two solved).

The way the patrols are set up, we have an "older " Scout patrol with seven 13-15 year olds in it; and two "NSPs," according to BSA's definition i.e. not yet First Class. One "NSP" has been around 2 years now, and is comprised of 12-13 year olds. It has That is the patrol my son the TG came from, and they have their act together. I going to call them the 'experienced" scouts to make it easier The other "NSP" is the one we are having issues with. Concern is that the keeping the two good patrols intact and dividing in half the troubled NSP would A) make overly large patrols and B) the 12- 13 year old patrol would have the same issues, although on a minor scale. Plus as Stosh commented, nobody really wants them now. The thinking is by dividing the older scouts ( who in the troops the leaders grew up in would be still in the patrols serving al PLs at their age or just moved up into the LC), and the experienced Scouts up and dividing the NSP amongst them, it would make the transition less painful. As for support, depending upon what it is I got it. But some things, like the folks appointing their own leaders, having the SPL, ASPL, PLs and a few others sign off on advancement I got a lot to do.

Best person to ask would be your FD. I know back in the day when I was a DE, I wore silver all of the time. Even with the three units I was listed as a leader for (summer camp's Explorer post/ Venturing crew; HA base's Sea Scout ship; and my service club's CS pack). Grant you, two of those units were job related. When I worked for national however, my manager wanted my employee uniforms and volunteer uniforms separate.

So I'm splitting from the "Signs that your unit might be adult led" thread. Not going to try and repost stuff from over there. I do think having multiple groups coming in at different times is part of the problem. Especially since the three different packs had three different leader/parent models, especially on the Webelos level. One pack had a DL who started BS leader training early, has a lot of outdoor experience, and started the "transition" as Webelos 1s. Second pack had a similar leader and similar expereinces. The Third pack however, was heavily leader run, even at the Webelos level. Parents were heavily involved, and from my experience with them, did everything for the Cubs. That group has a majority. Stosh mentioned someone playing games. I do think one of our scouts IS playing games. I think he's forced to be in Scouts by mom, and is constantly negative, causes some of the arguments, and has gotten physical twice on two occasions. When we talked to mom about this, the excuse was medications cause this. Thankfully they are moving soon. As to why they are sticking around? I know one want more challenging expereinces, and spend time with his best friend. However he is thinking about switching to another troop. Right now the weekend backpacking trip, summer camp, and AT trail are his motivation for staying. One Scout want to be just like dad and be an Eagle. IMHO, he has a BIG challenge with his grandmother, whom he lives with. She spoils him rotten, and does everything for him. One Scout enjoys Scouting and wants to be an Eagle. One wants a troop that is more active, i.e. camps every month. Sad thing is he's had to miss camping due to Dad and weekends. Two enjoy Scouting, or so they say. But when the going gets rough, they go to dad, if he's there, or the leaders. The other has a cell phone on autodial to momma. And she WILL pick him up as soon as possible as evidenced at summer camp. The rest I don't know yet. In regards to changing the patrols NOW, there are a few challenges. First, I'm not the SM, nor a member of the CO, so I do have to have their support. Unlike most COs, they ARE involved. They may not be as active as they should be, they are active and do support the troop. Changes, especially major ones like the one we are planning to do, they want to know about. Heck the CC was upset he didn't sign off on a leader's application b/c the IH, who is also an ASM, signed it instead, and forgot to tell him. Second, We talked to the Older Scouts about this and gave them to April to come up with any ideas to improve the situation. We want their input, want them to come up with ideas, maybe somethings the adults haven't come up with yet, and give them some ownership of the problem. Coming back to them and saying 'We gotta do this NOW" will destroy whatever trust in us, and ownership of the problem. Third, we got to give the PLs and troop level leaders some time in their positions. MORE LATER Fourth, we got to talk to the SM about not appointing APLs and troop level positions. I think that's another issue causing problems. APL was appointed by the SM, and it wasn't even the guy who was one vote away from being the PL. Then again, the PL may have selected his best friend instead of someone capable of the job. At least the SM did pick some capable of the job. But that hasn't been the case before as my son noted.

I'm splitting off to give this topic it's own thread. I think we've gone off topic.

One thing I forgot to add. The SPL had me work with them while he and the older scouts planned their AT trip. I role played the situation of the missing duty roster and how to solve it. I modeled how we did things back in the day, i.e. pairing an "experienced Scout" with a "new Scout" so that the older Scout taught the younger one. Most of them heard for the first time that the troop is expecting anywhere from 14 to 24 new Scouts in December, and that THEY will need to step up and work with them as THEY should know how things should be done. At first they were shocked, but then it went away. Oldest told me that he heard on Scout say that there is no way we are getting 14 new Scouts in December, let alone 24. Long road ahead.

Stosh, I try to keep an open mind. So no, I won't ignore. I do think I need to adapt. I'm use to adults staying out of the way of the Scouts, interjecting only for safety purposes. And obviously this isn't working. Heck my son even said it last nite when we talked to the situation. He said they won't listen to anyone "except the adults and possibly the older Scouts." Wish I still had my 3d edition SMHB, because I remember a training regime in it that may work. I guess I'm the one keeping the situation together at the moment. Not so much for fun, it's not, but more to keep the other two patrols that are working from being split apart at this moment. Several of the adult leaders want to split up the patrols NOW. I keep saying let the situation continue until the next unit elections, which will be May 2nd. Why until then? Because that is traditionally when new SPL and PLs get elected. Also I want to give the older Scouts a chance to come up with ideas to change the situation that the adults may not have thought of. At the moment, it's looking like the a complete revamp of the patrols into mixed aged. I am pushing and promoting and commenting that the Scouts need to decide which patrols they join instead of assigning them to patrols. But maybe we do need to speed up the transition process? Yes, that is correct. 2 have been in for 13 months. One of those went to summer camp with the troop and attended 10/12 of the monthly activities since joining. The 2nd Scout went provisional to summer camp, and has been to approximately <50% of the activities. 2 have been in since April. One went the entire week of summer camp, the other had mom pick him up Wednesday at 6:30AM. They have gone on 10/10 monthly activities. 2 have been in since June. Both went to summer camp and have done 6 or 7 /8 activities since joining. 1 came aboard in October. hasn't done any of the monthly activities due to conflicts with parental custody. 1 came aboard in January. He's truly brand new. But he missed the camp out due to the parental custody situation. And we got a brand new guy on this last campout and meeting. He's in the process of filling out paperwork. And that is another reason for the frustration. 6 of the 8 Scouts have been together since June, and they are still acting like a bunch of Cubs. Again, I think part of the reason was their original TG, who became the PL later. In stead of guiding them and teaching them to do things on their own, he told them exactly what to do and how to do it. Although there were some complaints about him as TG, they did elect him PL. Complaints did increase during his tenure as PL, and when his term ended, he went back to his original patrol. Thinking back, the duty roster situation started when he didn't attend a trip, and no one had a copy of it. Then it has continued since he moved back to his patrol.

Yes, one reason why I'm glad the SPL took over and let me calm down. And then when I saw that he was getting agitated I stepped in again since I was calm. You would think that dealing with the exact problem at least 4 months in a row, no/missing duty roster on the trip, they would heed the advice of their SPL, and the adults who had have to get involved when they got out of control. SPL asked me to work the situation last night while he dealt with the older scout patrol. So we role played and demonstrated how it ad uty roster can be created within 7 minutes, and that included going off on tangent just like they do. As for the TG, I know he's getting frustrated. We talked a little about them not listening to him, and his decision to let them learn the hard way and make their mistakes. Also talked about how the PL isn't really doing his job, and how the PL ignore him, then tries to blame him for his mistakes. And he's a little peeved that 1/2 the patrol left when he told them they need to stay a few minutes to finalize Scout Sunday, including the PL. I so wish I wasn't the NSP ASM. I feel like CS leader again at times. I see my son growing up and taking responsibility ( YEAH!), but then getting frustrated when they don't listen. And for me, It's very uncomfortable because at the back of my mind I'm thinking am I an interfering daddy, or a long time scouter who is getting involved as needed. As Ramirez sang to Macleod, " B-A-L-A-N-C-E balance."