Eagle94-A1

Back. I know that. You know that. But for whatever reason some of the other leaders don't know that. That's why I don't like making an announcement that only 1/2 the troop will be able to go. High adventure is one thing, but a monthly camp out needs to be able to include everyone. And if the section of river is too challenging for the bulk of the troop, you get teh PLC to select another section, or even river. Yep, You mix and match your strongest and weakest paddlers so that you get a nice mix, and if anything does happen, the skill level is equitable in all the canoes, so you don t have to worry. When we were doing canoe training for the Canada trip, my partner was a friend from my troop. We paddled a lot together, so we aced every scenario and race they gave us to the point of handicapping us. But when it came time for assignments on the trek, we were split up and assigned to work with less experienced Scouts. That way we could work with them and help them better themselves.

I don't know who first said it as I was not at the leader's meeting when it was discussed, but first person I heard that from was Gunship. Being an aquarat who has done 3 fifty milers afloat, I agree, canoeing is FUN. And yes, pairings is important. Know that first hand when my inexpereinced partner froze. more later

Agree, but I do want them prepared for backpacking before they go. I don't want them showing up with little to no instruction.I want the first time to be fun so as not to discourage them. But I also want them to learn. The backpacking group above, as well as several ASMs want the troop to do more backpacking and "primitive" camping instead of the car camping we have been doing. But two of the Scouts have already commented how they don't want to do backpacking; they want to keep doing "easy camp outs." As for canoe camping, I do not know what happened last year as I was not on the trip. From the stories I heard, some of the Scouts could not steer their canoes, and it took twice as long to do the trip. Again, it was decreed that only 1/2 the troop will be able to go, those who can demonstrate proper canoeing skills. My son could care less about canoeing, so I'm thinking about putting a bug in his and SPL's ear about a non-canoeing trip for those who can't go.

The canoeing problem reared it's head at the meeting. It caused me to ask the SPL if he got the SPL binder with the monthly themes, calendar, etc. He didn't. He also asked me to help him out, which I'm goingto try and do. I mentioned the situation in a message to the ASM and SM last nite. Reason being, I wanted to send him a copy of the Troop Program Features for him to review, and give him ideas to plan his meetings. Regarding the SPL. First time SPL, has little to no confidence in his abilties. BUT HE IS FREAKING AWESOME! (emphasis, ok a little shouting 'cause he's that good.) He was the "caboose" on the backpackign trip Scout wise making sure me and 2 other adults were OK. He was the one helping folks across stream crossings and carrying gear across to help those who wanted to use "stepping stones." A little nudging at times was needed to get him to take charge. But taking care of his people, he's got. I've also put some bugs in his ears about November and changes in camporee. At the moment, there is no scout leading the backpack planning. Major trip is ASM Frustrated, BUT I bet I can talk him into letting the Scouts do the work. More than likely it will be the 12 year old taking charge since A) he did 40 or the proposed 50 miles already and B) He was the hike leader this past weekend. As for the rest of the troop and their backpacking trip, no one has been appointed. I'll put a bug in the SPL's ear abotu that though ASAP.

Set back for Boy-run. Hopefully a minor one and easily corrected. Instead of following the schedule that the Scouts created back in December, One of the ASMs convinced the SM to jump 2 months and start working on canoeing to prepare as many Scouts for the August canoe trip as possible. So we are skipping over backpacking instruction, which everyone will be doing in July. Grant you the ones who went backpacking this weekend do not need training, heck they should be TEACHING backpacking, but the younger ones need help. Rationale for the jump is the following: 1) we got 3 weeks where there will be no meetings ( Memorial Day, Summer Camp, and 4th of July), plus one week where the older Scouts will be on the AT leaving 7 weeks for everyone to prepare for the canoeing trip. After last year's experience on the river, the adults are saying probably 1/2 the troop will be able to go, unless they can develop their skills ASAP. I mentioned backpacking in July, giving us 6 meetings, BUT that the PLC decided to turn a swimming day trip into a backpacking prep day trip. And that is 3 meetings away. We need to talk about gear, packing, etc. Comment was they can use the one burner propane stoves (agree) and their school book bags for one weekend ( DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER!) I also mentioned how we really need to let the PLC decided how to handle the decision. My suggestion was do a PLC during the meeting, and have a team building/interpatrol competitions with the APLs leading while the PLs are busy. Hate to say it, but part of me feels like pulling a Gunship, calling a PLC meeting next weekend, so the troop can get organized not only for the meetings, but also for the rest of the year. Our schedule got changes because district changed some dates on us, and we will be going 7 weeks without a campout unless we change our November trip. EDITED: I say hopefully a minor one, because I see the rationale for the changes, and I bet the PLC will too. But A) THEY NEED TOMAKE THE DECISION AND NOT US ADULTS (emphasis), and B) I do not think anyone will want to backpack with school bags. I've been backpacking without a hip belt and a broken frame, so it was essentially a school bag. IT AINT FUN!

Not necessarily. They still need to earn their Bobcat rank. Plus requirement 1 is the following: "Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old" Grant you, a Cub with a late birthday, say my middle son, could skip over Webelos and start work directly on AOL so that by the end of May, he would meet the 10.5 requirement. An aside. Glad my son decided to stick with his den and cross over in December when he is 11 instead of at 10.5. With the challenges the troop is having (see the other thread for an update), I know he would be frustrated, and working with an ASM I no longer have confidence in.

Eternal rest grant unto him, oh Lord. And may perpetual light shine upon him. May he rest in peace. Amen. Krampus, I am so sorry for your loss.

Good idea about mechanic checking out the brakes. Now I gotta find a new mechanic as mine just closed his shop and retired.

Update from tonite: WOW, you just can't please some people. Gunship was ticked off at me and the trek leader, who I named Frustrated above, because we were 1:30 late, and his stepson was too exhausted to go to school today. We told folks we would be at the church at a certain time, give or take 30 minutes. Yes, we got a late start, but that would put us in the give 30 minutes. Putting out the fire put us beyond 20 minutes that, and as you know that group leaving the fire ticked me off. But I had some car trouble, specifically brake issues, that also caused us to be late. I am not use to driving in the mountains, being a flatlander born and raised in SE Louisiana, and living in the coastal plain. I was burning up my brakes to the point where I was "boiling the brake fluid" and my brakes were not working as they should. Frustrated doubled back to help me out and make sure I was OK. After a 30 stop to cool the brakes, there was no further issue. Gunship said that Frustrated should have forced the Scouts to pick up their pace to make up lost time, and he should have left me behind to deal with the car issues. so that the rest of the group could get back either on time, or closer to the original time.Apparently a heated discussion ensued where Frustrated politely, but firmly said four times he was sorry they were late, they called as soon as they could get reception about being late, but there was no way he was going to leave anyone behind. I admit Gunship helped me out when I got injured, driving me to the hospital twice to get my injuries taken care of. But maybe it would be a good idea for him to find another troop like he said he will do after the AT trip.

5 are in the same patrol, and 2 folks from them were MIA. One was sick and ticked off, the other was being scouted for a baseball scholarship, and had to be at the game. He was not happy about missing out either. Those 7 will be doing some patrol camping in the very near future. 2 are in one patrol, and they will be working with their patrol. Funny thing is, both of them do not consider themselves "experienced" scouts, and hero worship the 5 above. Hopefully between me talking to them, and them hanging with their idols this weekend, They now understand when I tell them, "you ARE experienced scouts and know what to do. JUST DO IT." Last one is the APL of his patrol. His PL doesn't have the necessary gear and could not make it. BUT APL has promised to help his PL out, and wants his patrol up to snuff. Actually, I've already but a bug in the SPL's ear to assign this one in October/November to work with Webelos on their CASTAWAY BADGE and work with the Webelos on the survival campout since he is a wilderness survival freak. He did a great job working with the troop a few months back. I think they will do VERY well.

if you find the 2 volumes I'm talking about, DO NOT LEND THEM TO ANYBODY!!!! I made that mistake, and I haven't seen them since. And there is a really good section on starting a troop, training them using the patrol method. That section can also be used to revive the patrol method in a troop.

Wanted to give an update. Troop camp out was cancelled because only 4 Scouts would be able to make it. They had a day trip instead, but don't know how it went yet. Find out tonite. As for the group doing the AT and a few others. The trip was AWESOME! (and yes I'm screaming in joy ) The 8 scouts that went did a stellar job for being first time backpackers. They really took care of not only each other, but also us old fogeys. I think they learned a lot. And I think if these guys take charge of some of the things we talked about, the troop will rock. The only thing that ticked me off to no end was another group. They left camp with a fire still roaring. It took us about 20 minutes and 3 trips to the stream to get enough water to put that fire out. We were running a little behind schedule, but that made it worse. BUT there was another group on the other side of firebugs. They saw us putting out the fire, doing police lines, etc. We ended up meeting them on the trail, and I received a compliment about how they really took care of the fire and campsite. Needless to that was an emotional high for me.

Alas no, my family did not decline. Two of middle son's fellow Webelos were in the camper. They and youngest basically had a slumber party. Wife and our friends probably wished they were outside with a all the giggles and talking that occured. I'm cool with it though because all four Cubs just had a campout 2 weeks previously Switching gears a tad. I was told the troop will revert back to NSPs in December instead of keeping mixed aged. Made a comment to the SPL that he needs to keep all of my pack's Scouts in one patrol, even if it's a 5 man patrol, and not mix others into it to keep the dynamics. The Webelos did a stellar job on that camp out, and the one the month before. They did all the cooking, cleaning, setting up, etc with just a few reminders on both camp outs. Oldest saw them in action at Webeloree in March, and told me he thinks they will have no problems when they join the troop.

I think I scared off Youngest from backpacking. Don't know what happened between when The family left for their trip, and when I met up with oldest, but he doesn't want to carry everything on his back as it's too heavy. I think he tried oldest's pack on, and at approx. 28# it was heavy. As for middle son, he prefers "glamping" in a camper. One of the other Scouts family did the same thing my family did, leave early and have some family time. But they used a camper. When the temps dropped to near freezing, my family was invited into the camper. Trip went well. Scouts did a great job, and I think learned a heckuva lot of stuff. I know I relearned some things I've forgotten. Only think that irked me to no end was the neighboring group left their fire going after they left. took us about 20 minutes to put the fire out having to make sever trips to the stream to get enough water to do the job. Why can't people be careful with fire? On a different note, the troop was complimented by another group for how well we left the campsite, as well as for putting out the fire. They were on the opposite side of the group that left the fire going, and saw us putting it out. Guys did really well

I must respectfully disagree as I channel KUDU. Reprint the 3rd ed. SMHB volumes 1 and 2. From what I've been told and saw in a later SMHB Green Bar Bill, all his other SMHBs are condensed versions of the 3rd. ed.

Yeah we had a WEBELOS (emphasis) who did 40 miles on the AT with Mom and Dad. While a Scout, he taught classes on backpacking gear and backpacking cooking. Long story short, he was disqualified from the backpacking cooking competition because 'we can't allow professionals." And yes, there was no left overs with his dish Actually SWMBO has loaded their backpacks with some gear and has been hiking them around the neighborhoods with Oldest so that all 4 of them could get ready for this weekend. THANKFULLY I was able to convince Middle Son he did not need his vintage, metal first aid kit with the spray can of local anesthetic. THAT KIT WAS HEAVIER THAN MINE!!!!!!

Not YPT, but Hazardous Weather. While I was able to see the certificate, I was unable to print it. I did a screen capture to show I completed it. Regarding MY.SCOUTING.ORG, I will quote the Second Doctor, aka "the Hobo," "You've changed things. HHHMMM, I don't like it." It is not user friendly at all, and trying to get to some of the online training was a pain. Only good thing I can say is the search engine is better that scouting.org's one.

OK understood. Sometimes I'm dense. Well the A.L.I.C.E. I have the son using have been modified. It has the M.O.L.L.E. belt and newer, wider straps. Lot more comfortable than when I used it on a regular basis. I admit I love A.L.I.C.E. but it's been on 2 of my three 50 milers, a NSJ and WSJ, my European Camp Staff adventure, and a host of other campouts. But I do realize it's dated, lots of improvements and tech since it was created 45+ years ago. And after this loading up the car for the wife to go camping with the 3 hoodlums while I slave away at work, I need to start investing in backpacking gear. Trunk was maxed out, and the kids will have stuff in their laps.

All-purpose Lightweight Individual Carrying Equipment specifically the Field Pack - 8465-001-6480 - medium on a frame. I've found the Medium A.L.I.C.E. can do double duty as a weekend backpack and a canoe bag. Especially ones with the quick release straps. They can attach to the thwarts. Some thing I tend to NOT want to remember. On my second backtracking trek, I was overburdened with gear to the point my frame broke, specifically the area where the hip belt was. I made a trump line with rope and necker to help ease some of the weight off the shoulders. it helped.

I woudl not call them "unofficial knots" unless they are new knots, i.e. NESA Lifetime Member Eagle Knot. I would call them "REPRODUCTION KNOTS" ( emphasis) sicne at one time BSA did make knots on a white background, navy background, and kelly green background. Don't know if they made them in a light blue background for Air Scouts or not. I have 2 sets of white reproduction knots for my Sea Scout whites, a set of navy repros for when I either get a Sea Scout Centennial Uniform or service blue uniform, and I just got a set of green repros to go on my Exploring shirt. I would have sewn on the VENTURING strip when they were handing htem out in '98, but the shirt had faded a tad bit and the strip would be VERY noticeable.

I didn't know about Hikerdirect.com when I got my wife's sleeping bag. She loves it BTW, and my oldest steals it from her on occasion, like this weekend, because A) it's cold or B) compression sack. I did use hikerdirect.com for son's birthday present, a Mystique 1.5 tent. http://www.alpsmountaineering.com/products/tents/lightweight-tents/mystique-15 I hate to say it, I've used it more than him, and love it. Borrowing it for the weekend backpacking trek. As for backpacks, we got these for the youngest two when they were on a Back To School Sale for about $40 each if I remember correctly. http://www.alpsmountaineering.com/products/packs/day-packs/solitude . They use them on the car camping trips and are really well made. I used it when we went on vacation last year, carrying a day's worth of food and drinks for 5 people. Comfy. Now I admit, I'm partial to USGI surplus. It use to be cheap, and "If it's designed to survive combat, it may survive Boy Scouts." But looking at some of the hiker direct prices, WWWWOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW! May I take a moment about Alps Mountaineering customer service? 1 word: AWESOME! Father-in-law knew son wanted a tent, but couldn't find a decent one locally. I told him about Hiker Direct ( at the time ScoutsDirect) and he told me to get the Mystique 1.5 for son. They told me on the phone how long it would take to get it shipped, and it would be a day late. I was good with that and had an plan. I told ALPS thank you, and how my son will love his birthday present when he opens it up. Long story short, they processed the order that day in order to ship it so that he could receive it for his birthday! THAT'S AWESOME CUSTOMER SERVICE! And no, I do not work for ALPS nor own stock in the company. EDITED: Looking at these for oldest; http://www.alpsmountaineering.com/products/packs/internal-frame-packs/red-tail-4900 or http://www.alpsmountaineering.com/products/packs/internal-frame-packs/caldera-5500

Going to post something positive for a change, and it's the result of my Wolf. He asked me yesterday when can we go backpacking as a family. I told him he's camping with his mom this weekend. He said, "I know that, but I mean backpacking like you and [Oldest] are doing." Looks like I need to either upgrade Oldest son's pack ( 37L with no hip belt) and let wife use the A.L.I.C.E., or get wife a new pack, and let Oldest use A.L.I.C.E. Plus I am going to need to get some more backpacking gear to cover a 5 man crew. Thankfully we got 40L Alps Mountaineering packs last year for the younger two when they were on sale. I love corrupting my kids!

Well, son did surveys last night. It looks as if not everyone did one, but the ones he got are interesting. I asked him if I could read them and he said yes. They are all over the place. The older Scouts clearly see the problems and for the most part were honest. Although I do think they held back. But part of if was that several put their names on it, which was optional. One older scout without a name ( he shared a pen with a named Scout, hence telling he's an older scout) was very honest. Glad he was One was downright sarcastic. Don't know who it was, but that was probably the most honest one. In it's sarcasm it shows how screwed up the troop is. One of the younger scouts doesn't see any problems. But there was one Scout who thinks the adults need to get more involved and help. While I think I know who it is writing that, I do not know for sure. On a different note, I was polite and professional. Only group I worked with was the ones prepping for the AT. Only time I got involved with another den Patrol was to pull a Scout out who needed to be doing the shakedown since he is doing the prep trip. One of the ASM's thought that since I worked with my son packing, he's good to go. Yes, but I want him treated like everyone else. If the group is shaking down gear, he needs to shake down gear.

I'm going to concede on the back history. You're right, it's not something I need to know about. And since oldest would want to transfer instead of starting from scratch, I'm going to hold off talking to the UC about if his church could support a troop again. Regarding the SM, it's a delicate situation. He's been involved with the troop over 40 years, has been SM for over 20, with a break when the troop died, and singlehandedly restarted the troop. Nobody has the heart to tell him "NO MORE" including his wife, doctor etc. As for the area I was thinking of, there is currently no troops there or the surrounding area. Hence one of the reasons I was thinking about going there. I just don't know if there would be support for a single troop. As for working him out, that may happen. He's already involved on the district level, so that won't work. I really do not want the last option because I do not want to lose those Scouts. I think they would quit before asking to join a different patrol, especially since the adults were the ones that set up the patrols. At the moment Son wants to change the troop. I do what he wants. He want the PLC more involved, and he will be working towards that end this weekend camping with the SPL, a PL, and the "influential Scouts" as he calls them.

My UC was the one I recruited to be CM, then the SM, of the pack and troop Gunship was in before coming to my troop. Also he is one of the lay leaders of the chartering organization, and was serving on the committee when the troop folded. I know he wasn't as active a leader as he would have liked, but his company has exploded especially with their overseas customers. But he would know if the reason was Gunship or really they couldn't get parents to step up to the plate. Also he would know if the church would be willing to restart the troop if a new sucker, I mean volunteer, was willing to restart the troop. As well as what equipment and resources the CO still has. On a different note, talked to son some more. He really wants to try and solve this troops problems before giving up. Told him I'd do whatever it takes to help him out, and put up with anything as long as he's happy. Then the bombshell. He said he wouldn't' want to start a new troop, but go to another troop that friends from the home school group are in. I told him he would need to pay more of his share, because we couldn't afford it. Good news is that the troop IS Scout run. Bad news is that they do a lot of expensive trips.