Eagle94-A1

Two of my Eagles are my favorite success story. Dad left when they were young. Mom serving time in jail. Grandmother was raising them by herself. Living in a rough neighborhood, going to a school that had lots of drugs, gangs, etc. Grandmother had enough and got them involved in Scouting to keep them out of trouble. One took to Scouting like a duck to water. He worked camp, did OA, got Eagle, etc. He was the driving force to get a Venturing for the older Scouts who were getting bored and antsy. Long story short, he stayed active until he enlisted, and several of his friends stayed as active as can be with school and/or naval service. Once out of the military, he eventually started his own business, which he at some point he sold. He married his HS sweetheart, has three kids and is involved with his son in Scouting. Brother was a bit of a trouble maker. Always causing problems. Something happened one summer, and he did a complete 180 degree turnaround. Instead of being the trouble maker, he became a leader. he worked camp, did OA, and Eagled. he was active until he went to college, and did some things as he could. he also served, married his HS sweetheart, and is doing well. They had rough times, they had challenges. But Scouting helped them overcome.

My cousin and I were both pushed to get Eagle. He got his at 13 and quit. I got Life at 13, and could have gotten Eagle at 14y7m, which was when I completed the project, IF I would have focused only on getting the last few MBs for Eagle. But when I was 14, instead of taking MB classes at summer camp, I did a local "high adventure" backpacking trek for fun. I also did Brownsea 22, yesterday's NYLT, learning a lot and having, fun. At 15, I got into the OA, went to jamboree, did a Canadian expedition. It was all fun. Work, challenging, but FUN. At 16 and 17, I spent summers working my tail off. No time to finish up MB. Then when it was announced that one of the guys I was PL for passed his EBOR and was waiting for national approval, it hit me. I have x number of months to get the last 2 or 3 MBs. I made it. Took me a while, but I made it. And I had a blast. Fast forward 20+ years. My cousin has a son who become a Tiger. Thankfully he doesn't push his son to get Eagle. My cousin becomes a Scouter, and tags along on his son's adventures: OA, Philmont, etc. Stuff he should have done as a youth. And he had fun doing it. My point it, to many folks focus on Eagle, and not the lessons and fun of the Trail.

In my district, references need to be in letter form and mailed to the district advancement chairman. EBOR gets to read them. I have been told this happened twice. First time, the SM counseled him and told him what he would put down. Don't know if the Scout didn't hear him or didn't care. He used the SMt, and received a negative reference. Second one I was told about is interesting. Scout went overboard with the references and had 6 or 7 letters. All but one were positive.

In my troop, parents are NOT suppose to sign off on anything. I'm a Cooking MBC, and all my son had to do from summer camp was the backpacking meal requirements for that MB. When he worked on that requirement on a backpacking trip, I made sure that the trek leader saw what was going on, and could verify that he earned it. He wasn't a MBC for that MB at the time (he is now and a few others), so I "officially" signed him off. BUT I didn't actually work with him. The Summer camp counselor and the trek leader did the MBC work. No, this mom, despite wanting her son to make Eagle, didn't really attend anything. It took and act of congress to meet with her after the second fight.

So very true! Additionally the way they are written, in beauracrateese and legalese, it takes time for some adults to understand. Try being a teenager and trying to get through the paperwork.

Vent away. Can definately relate.We had two guys in the troop who were only in it because mom forced them. One transferred to a new troop after a year, but he got to First Class due to mom signing off on the ranks and no one noticing it until after the BOR. He didn't do a heck of a lot do to family situation. But enough to start two fights and and do some morale damage to the patrol. The other stayed 2 years. When he was not around, the patrol worked well. When he showed up for events, the negativity and arguing damaged the patrol. She eventually realized the troop wasn't for him, so he is now in an Explorer post affilaited with her job.

I am going to go off on a tangent a bit, so bear with. I was just asked to be my troop's "Eagle Advisor," helping the Star and Life Scouts get prepared for doing the Eagle service project and the BOR process in my neck of the woods. And part of that job is attending with the Scout the Eagle BOR for the project approval, and attending with the Scout for their EBOR. GREAT SCOT WHAT A MESS WE ADULTS HAVE CAUSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Compared to my project's paperwork back then to today's paperwork, and it is P.I.T.B! I can now see why an "Eagle advisor" is needed, because there are so many rules, processes, and ridiculous minutia that the Scouts need to follow. And I blame adults for the problem. I've seen some things that Scouters have done to cause this mess we have today. Hey, I'm the one who had a district advancement chair try and deny my project because HE didn't approve it, his predecessor did. But I also blame parents. I've heard of some of the things parents have done to give their Scout Eagle. Heck we had one mom threaten to sue if her son didn't get an extension because he screwed up his first project so badly, the beneficiary told him and the Scouts to leave. She didn't think it was fair he would not be able to get Eagle because "[beneficiary] changed their mind after he started his project."

A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.... : I was up in Canada doing a 64 mile canoe trip. First day out was gorgeous and very nice. So the second day, I decide to wear swim trunks, jungle boots, sunscreen, and a PFD. WWWWWEEEEEELLLLL a cold front comes through after lunch dropping temperatures, causing rain, and kicking up the wind. Went from lower 70s / upper 60s to the lower to mid 50s in minutes. Plus you got to add in windchill from 30-40mph gusts and rain. Needless to say I got cold real fast. Grabbed a ponchor, but no other insulation. And those 30-40mph gusts caused some "challenges" with my canoe. The waves cause my canoe partner to freeze with fear. I ended up screaming at my partner, "PADDLE OR DIE, TACO! PADDLE OR DIE!" (Me screaming at partner, not you folks ) And to make matters worse, my buddy canoe decides play a joke on us. With Taco frozen, they pull up next to us and push the bow of the canoe out. They did it with enough force, combined with the wave action, that we had to use that momentun and do a 360 to get back on course. We nearly flipped over 3 times, and it took about 10 minutes to get on course. By that point they left us behind, and Taco was still frozen with fear. I was not making any headway paddling a loaded canoe by myself in the wind and rain. So I decided to "island hop:" go to the nearest island, walk along the shore dragging the canoe, then paddling to the next island to repeat. So I am in jungleboots, swimtrunks, PFD, and a poncho in anywhere from ankle to chest deep lake water that is glacier fed. Did I mention the water is barely above freezing? I finally make it to the rest of the group. I'm disoriented, slurring speech, and blue like a Smurf from the chest down. Yep I had hypothermia.One of the guys noticed it, and started treating me for hyporthermia. But with no dry wood, they couldn't start a fire, and made that comment. That's when I commented, "I have a Sterno can in my survival kit." All eyes turn on me and I am told to bust it out. That's when I say, "But its only for emergencies." Then my buddy says " [EAGLE], YOU GOT HYPOTHERMIA. THIS IS AN EMERGENCY. BUST IT OUT NOW!" So a fire got started, I got treated, and all's well that ends well. Except for the hazing I got for years about the "...it's only for emergencies" comment.

If I told this story before, bear with me. One of my Eagles told me that during his first deployment to Iraq, they were living in tent. One of the sliders broke, so he used a tauntline hitch to fix the problem. His gunny sees him doing this, and tells him he needs to teach the rest of his platoon so that when the rest of the sliders break, they can fix them. Yep, more broke, and the Marines had the situation well in hand.

For anyone who thinks knots and lashings are not relevant Checkout then Lt.Col. Scarfoss's story. https://books.google.com/books?id=2fwDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA24&lpg=PA24&dq=lashing+and+space+shuttle&source=bl&ots=hTUDBy3d8Q&sig=4L2kLw8hTQi2JXZTtgJoY7yMeCE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjYk8nFsq7TAhWE6yYKHT5EAP0Q6AEITzAL#v=onepage&q=lashing%20and%20space%20shuttle&f=false

West Knots are restricted, like the Eagle, Silver/Summit, and QM knots. You gotta prove you earned it. Yes, VERY large bequest in the will. To be honest, I do not think many, if any of the Eagles that year realize they are West fellows. In fact I do not know if any of their names are listed on the plaque in the Scout office. Reason I know is A) it was briefly announced at the awards banquet and B) the boss made a very big deal of being #1 in the region for West Fellowships that year. Go figure.

FYI only Webelos Dens can camp on their own. Lion, Tiger, Wolf and Bear Dens can only camp as a pack or at district/council level family camp outs. Are you using the original June 2015 advancement requirements found in the books, or are you using the new December 2016 requirements found here http://www.scouting.org/Home/programupdates.aspx A others have stated,it shouldn't be one and done. GET THEM OUTSIDE! (emphasis)

I've seen a Cub Scout wear a James E. West knot. Yes, dad donated $1000 in his name. Also know of approx. 100 Eagles who would be eligible. Gentleman left a very large bequest in his will, and every single Eagle in the council that year was a West Fellow.

Don't get me started with training records! Back in the day, I was responsible for updating council records. 1/2 to 2/3s of the courses were not listed. Very few were considered 'trained" (aside, try telling a long time Scouter who served on PTC staff several years they are "untrained"). Long story short, told to use the updated courses and #s, but put the original dates. Worked for a while until older courses were added, Then had to start the entire process all over again. It could be worse though. Very briefly for a time, national stated that you had to have CURRENT (emphasis) training coursed to be considered trained. Thankfully enough people complained and they changed the policy back.

I am going to say it depends. It better be written into the plan and noted during the approval process. I say that because I saw one Eagle Project approved and executed with only 2 Scout's involved, the Life Scout and his First Class brother. Everyone else was in their church's youth group. His thoughts were, They were benefiting, they need need to be involved. In the same district, but with a different advancement chairman, another Eagle project using non-scout labor had some issues. the DAC didn't like the non-Scout invovlement. That and he viewed the project as benefiting dogs and not the community. But since it was written into the plan was approved by the previous DAC, he had no choice but to accept it, especially since the project came about flawlessly. The Eagle in question did a lot of prep work to the point of making cardboard models to see how the items being build would work. Irony about "benefiting a bunch of dogs and not the community" is this. When my camp had a lost camp situation, the group that the Eagle project was for came in to do search and rescue with their dogs. Anyway, advise the Life that he definately needs to discuss that with the district folks during the approval process so it doesn't cause problems later.

Mea Culpa. Long day at work.

My thoughts regarding the young man coincide with what the 9th Doctor said upon meeting Rose Taylor: "RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!" Seriously though, if he is considering a professional career, he needs to get involved on the district level as a soon as possible, and even then it will not fully prepare him for the profession. Been there, done that. Only good things to come out of my time as a pro were A) meeting some great volunteers I am friends with, and B) meeting my wife. That being said, maintaining registration as a Venturer, UNIT (emphais) Scouter Reserve, or an ASM so that he can help when he is home is great. One of my Eagles did that while he was in college and while deployed the first time. Another option is the COLLEGE (emphasis) Scouter Reserve in the council his college will be in. College Scouter Reserve and MBC are the two district level positions that under 21 year olds can do. and CSR is more project oriented instead of unit oriented. If used right, he could get some expreince and make sure he wants to go the professional rou Mixed emotions on this. Unfortunately I have met some "Eagles" who cannot do basic T-2-1 skills because they "took that class at summer camp so long ago." Yes, a true quote from one at a first aid event using T-2-1 first aid skills at camporee back in October. And then there are those Eagles who worked summer camp, did Philmont, attended and staffed WB, etc and are "untrained" because they need IOLS. Yes a 3 beader was "untrained" because he needed IOLS. Same for the two Eagles who had been to Philmont, one of them twice. I got them all 'trained" by having them staff IOLS. I personally like the "challenge" option that was allowed at one time. Don't know if it is still since the revision. But we had several Eagles, and other experienced outdoorsman do the challenge with no problems. One of them, is a Life who served on my last IOLS course. Guy who took over as training chairman after me didn't want it to appear as favoritism or nepotism to have his son automatically be IOLS trained.

1) You need to let the Scouts figure this out. In my experience, when adults intervene they only make matters worse. And I've seen a 2 man "patrol" ( SPL and ASPL), and a 10 man patrol before ( two patrols merged for a competition). 2) One of the disadvantages of the New Scout Patrol concept. Ever since my troop was a guinea pig and tried the NSP before it became the recommended model, it has been a failure. Every troop I've been in went to traditional patrols. BUT THAT IS FOR THE PATROL LEADERS' COUNCIL TO DECIDE AND NOT THE ADULTS (caps for emphasis, not shouting) 3) It appears that you are a brand new, just crossed over from Cub Scouts adult. To quote Master Yoda, "you must unlearn what you have learned." You have just spent X number of years being a leader. It is hard to sit back and do nothing. BUT THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO DO NOW! (again emphasis). And Trust me I know it's hard making the transition from Cub Scout leader to Scouter, and I knew better. Once my troop growing up got a feeder pack, I hated when we got new Scouts because their parents and leaders caused so much trouble until the SM or CC stepped in and got them out of our hair. 4) good luck.

I believe William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt said it best: "Train 'em. Trust 'em LET THEM LEAD!" I am a firm believer in "knowledge, skills, and abilities," and do not believe a Scout who turns 18 goes back to knowing nothing. When I was on the council training committee, I had Brownsea 22, today's NYLT, and it was WB for Scouts. I took "Train the Trainer" as part of the JLT staff development, but that was it. After going through BA22, and being an a true Scout-run troop, the only thing I learned new when I tool the old SM Fundamentals Training was the paperwork aspect of Scouting. Since all IOLS does is cover basic S-T-2-1 skills, any First Class Scout or higher should have the knowledge, skills and abilities to serve as an instructor. When I have used Scouts for IOLS, I have not been let down. When I worked with the program committee,again I used the training I had as a Scout to get the job done. One of the things that chapped my hide as an 18-23 year old Scouter working on the district and council levels ( specifically the OA) was that many thought I didn't know squat due to my age. I thought it was humorous when I was OA chapter adviser, and a SM told me "You don't know anything about the OA."

Just because they are " College Scouter Reserve" or a MBC does not mean they cannot do 'additional duties." When I was an 18-20 year old Scouter, I served on the OA chapter (district) and OA lodge (council) levels, I also did other jobs. As T2Eagle said, I staffed and was on the committee for district and council events. I also served on the council training team, specifically as SPL of the JLT course, today's NYLT. I have also used young ASMs and older Scouts to staff district training back in the day.

A couple of points. 1) Internet Advancement and SCOUTNET do not keep up with individual requirements. Otherwise a similar situation we encountered in my district would have been uncovered earlier. Long story short, one former troop ignored requirement changes until it got to Eagle. So Scouts used the requirements in their book regardless if they were current or not. Problem was not uncovered until the troop folded and some of their Scouts went to another troop. That troop's leaders followed the rules, and it was a complete shock to the Scouts and family who transferred in about requirement changes affecting them. And the family in question was involved with the folded troop for 20+ years. 2) If the council's records are screwed up, the handbook is the final, official record. If it is discovered that the wrong requirements were used, it could, stress COULD, cause issues later on. 3) Knowing national's policy of not penalizing Scouts for the actions of adults, the problem most likely cause a delay, but not outright denial. I know the Scout I mentioned in #1 above was given an extension of 30 days for Eagle because of the situation he was in ( all requirements except time were met. Time was not met b/c A) original troop folded and took 2 months to find a new troop, and B) new troop discovered the irregularity and fixed it, hoping he would win an appeal). FYI, the Eagle is still active with the troop, when he is home from college.

At least your council is doing what it is suppose to do. I not have seen a list of approved camps for Cub Scouts to use in the 8 years I've been involved with Cubs. Then again about 5-6 years back, we still had members of the council camping committee saying "Cubs don't need to camp." Regarding Tour permits, planners, whatever they are called, I'm wondering if international travel will need it still?

Coleman quality is not what it used to be. My wife got me a 6 man Coleman for the family as a Valentine's Day gift. It's OK, but it leaks like a sieve, even after multiple coats of waterproofing. Also it is a major pain to set up and take down. When we family camp now, we have used 2 tents. In the future 2 tents and a hammock. As others have mentioned 2-4 man tents are the way to go. Easier to set up. More uses besides car camping, and less problems at nite. One time we used an 8 man tent and had an entire patrol in it. No one slept that weekend as a result. That 8 man tent was only used once more, and by adults. Finally, someone made a comment about parts. That is a concern specially with Coleman. My troop has a bunch of 3 man Coleman Hooligan tents, and they no longer make replacement vestibule poles.

I'm going by memory and 3rd party story. We had one Eagle who did so poorly on his project, the beneficiary cancelled it mid project, hired a contractor to fix the problem, and no longer allows Boy Scouts to do projects on their property. I know this problem was in his book as part of the process, especially the mistakes he made, and what he learned from it. And he did another project to completion.

1) Beaglelover, you are not in a council in NC by any chance? We had 5 units with rechartering issues receive letters and emails with exact verbalize. 2) In some cases, the Scouts do not know that the unit's adults have not followed through with the charter. We had a case where a charter was lapsed, and a Scout went for his Eagle. The district did not penalize him by not allowing him to have his EBOR. But I know the completed paperwork was on hold until the issues was resolved.