Eagle94-A1

It's been a while since I did BALOO, but my class class had 2 females out of approximately 20. Last IOLS class had 1 female out of 10.

Wow. While my course was indoors at a UoS, there was minimal hands on stuff and no complaining. I only learned a new knot, and haven't used it since, but I'd been around the block a few times.

Add in "Grade." We had quite a few scouts not able to go on one trip b/c of a school concert. Miss it and fail the music class. I do not know where it's allowed, or even if it is still allowed where I grew up, but I know the schools arranged PE classes by sports teams. Long story short, PE was used as a study hall during the season, and their class was the practice/game.

Well from reading some commentary from gentleman who posted the pictures originally, I think my fears are truly legit now. There are folks proposing girls only camps.

Talk About Scouting!! is the group. I'm hoping the slide pulls up.

Every troop does things differently. In my troop, if a 5th grader is working on Scout and has the 5th grade Cyberchip from Cub Scouts, they already earned the cyberchip and thus do not have to re-earn it. They won't need to do it again until working on Star.

Mixed emotions on this. I've read the studies and experienced it growing up in both Scouting and schools: boys and girls learn better in single gender environments. I also know that girls do mature faster, and will see them taking over in leadership roles. That is already happening in Venturing and Sea Scouts. But my biggest concern is the BSA changing the program majorly to accommodate girls. This quote on one of the slides posted on facebook from the meeting greatly concerns me: " Do current programs meet the character and leaderships needs of older girls?" I'm sorry, but if girls want the BSA program, they need to accept it as is and not change it. On the other hand, I see where GSUSA is not meeting the needs of girls, and BSA's current (major emphasis)program would give them the challenges they want. I've seen seen coed Scouting work with Sea Scouts, Scouting overseas, Exploring and Venturing. I see the handwriting on the wall, and I got questions and concerns about it. But I admit I am a selfish person on this one, I want what is best for my sons.

It would open eyes. When I worked for national supply, I was part of a pilot program operating a store at a camp. I was hired because I had camp experience. Long story short, everything I wrote for the proposed Standard Operating Procedures manual was questioned repeatedly by my boss: from hours of operation to staffing to supplies to design lay out. Even when items were approved and finalized in the proposal, when executed they were still questioned. Boss had 0 experience working at a summer camp. Didn't have a clue. Two summers went by and there was constant questioning. Then the boss got assigned to work national jamboree. Let's just say the boss finally got some experience in working a camp store and understood why I planned things the way I wrote them. Current job has the managers doing rounds every day. They have to go visit x number of patients every day, and the floors change every week. Long story short a lot of changes for the better are going on as a result.

Praying.

Don't know the full situation. So I do not know if the SM has reasons or not. What I do know is that because BORs need 3-5 committee members, they need advance notice. I know in some troop's I've been in, you needed to ask for a BOR 1-2 weeks in advance so they could get enough people. In rare instances, specifically EBORs, it could take up 6 weeks between the request and the actual EBOR! Other troops have the BORs scheduled for a specific meeting night each month. That's how my sons' troop is. Since it is the Scout's advancement and therefore the Scout's repsonibility, he needs to follow the directions his SM gave him. And if he's going for Life, he should be able to handle thievery himself. Good luck to your son.

First time I've heard of these websites. I would add they need a better job of advertising them.

David, While we have our differences of opinion, we both have the best interests of the youth we serve. I'm sad to hear that you are stepping down and away from Scouting. But can understand why you may need to step down. Just do me a big favor if you don't mind? If one of your Scouts asks you to attend something like a Court of Honor, especially their Eagle COH, please do so.

My understanding of the LDS program from talking to LDS Scouters and reading their commentary on this announcement is that A) their 11 year old program is a set, repetitive program that is designed to get Scouts to First Class in a year, and is very adult leader oriented to the point that it seems like it is still Cub Scouts or "Webelos 3" and B) there is incredible pressure from LDS leaders on the Scouts to get Eagle before 14. I know I was pressured to get Eagle before getting into HS by my uncle. Thankfully not as much as my cousin was. Also I had a SM who realized Scouting needed to be fun. The more I think about my cousin, the more I can understand him leaving at 13 when he got Eagle.

Forgot all about the flush toilets and showers.

Can't answer the power tools part of your question, but can answer the caving one. When Leadership Corps became venture crews in 1989, then venture patrols in 1998, a series of pin recognition was created for HA type activities that they could earn. BSA based the program on the Varsity program. The Varsity letter became the Varsity/Venture letter, and the venture pins were created.. From 1989 to sometime after 1996, the pins were restricted both to purchase and to specific program. So all the sports related pins were Varsity pins and restricted to Varsity Scouts being able to earn them and teams purchasing them. All HA activity pins were Venture pins, with only Boy Scouts being able to earn them and troops being able to buy them. Sometime after 1997, I'm thinking August 1998 but do not know for sure, Varsity Teams and venture patrols could earn either set of pins. And like the Varsity/Venture letter, the pins became Varsity/Venture pins instead of Varsity Pins and Venture Pins. In my home council, neither Varsity or venture was popular. None of the Varsity pins ever sold, and the only Varsity/Venture letter and Venture pins (backpacking and survival), that were sold was me buying them to promote the venture program. It never took off.

There are differences. I do not know the official reason why summer camp only counts once for various requirements. I can give you my thoughts though. 1) Monthly camping with your patrol is the heart and soul of Scouting. That is where you learn, refine, master, and teach those basic outdoor skills. "OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING." William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt 2)The modern summer camp is not your typical camp out. You are sleeping in tents that are already pitched for you. Patrols do not need to come up with duty rosters and menus, nor do cooking and other patrol specific activities. Scouts eat in dining halls, and have a staff to do the work needed to get things done. Instead of patrol based activities, you have individual based classes. 3) I personally have mixed emotions on counting summer camp for the Camping MB. One one hand, everything they learn as part of the Camping MB, they are not doing at a modern summer cam for the most part. I have been to some recent camps that have have those in the classes go out into a wilderness area to pitch tents, work as a patrol, etc in order to make sure they really know the skills. On the other hand, I know how important summer camp is, especially to brand new Scouts. It's important not only for advancement, but also for social reasons. Summer camp is where you make friends for a life time. I also know that not every Scout will have the chance to do a week long, traditional camp program. Every Scout will go to summer camp. But everyone doesn't get the chance to go to a HA base, or do a HA activity.

Does anyone in your pack have B.A.L.O.O. Training? That person should be able to answer all of your questions. Also I would take either Outdoor Webelos Leader Training (or whatever it is called nowadays) and/or Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills, the Boy Scout leader outdoor training course. Both can help you. My answers are in red More Later

Stosh, Unfortunately I made the mistake of not only going to a private college (the partial scholarship to it helped make that decision), but going to grad school twice, once for a history degree that there is an overabundance in the market of, and then a library degree. I will be finished with my student loan debt when my kids are out of college. I wish I would be debt free at 50. On a different note since I'm the one responsible for helping people go back to school at my job, I know a lot more now than my mom ever did about the college process, transfer credit, financial aid etc. I hope and pray that my kids follow my advice, and do the 2 year community college program, then tranfer to a state school for the final 2 years. Or even take advantage of the early scholars program where they can take college credit classes at the local community college while JRs and SRs in high school, and have it applied to they bachelors degree.

This is not a troop. Shop around. Even if you have to drive. While my mom didn't have to drive 40 miles RT, she did have a drive to take me to Scouts. Thankfully there was a K Mart down the street, and she'd go shopping after dropping me off. One of our ASMs drives 60 miles RT so his son can be with my troop. That doesn include another 10-20 miles for him to get home.

OH I WISH!

Yes and no. I love too love the 3 year program. But I do not like that the LDS packs cannot camp. I also do not like the fact that they separate the Boy Scout youth into 3 different programs

I beleive the dopcument, but note the discrepecy. Also lament the fact that today's legalistic and sue happy society has forced the BSA to change its programs. It was not too long ago that Patrols could camp without adults on their own.

Back. The 12 and 13 year olds are Boy Scouts, they are on their own. There are no older Scouts who model the patrol method, and mentor the young leaders. The successful non-LDS troops I've been in and seen would usually have 14-17 year old Boy Scouts in the old "Leadership Corps" positions, i.e. QM, Librarian, Instructor, etc, and a SPL who had experience as a a PL. In one troop I was with,one SPL had over 2 years straight as a PL! His patrol kept reelecting him. With the LDS program, they have 2 years only, and the focus of Boy Scouts as I am told and read comments is to get them Eagle before they turn 14. While doable, it is challenging. Unless the troop is adult led. And with the number of young Eagles comign from LDS units, the commentary and personal experience, there are a lot of adult driven LDS units. (NOT picking on LDS units, There are non-LDS units that are just as adult oriented, and it drive me nuts) I can't sat anything about Varsity. Even with the LDS wards I've been in contact with, they did not have active Varsity Teams. In the one ward I am very familiar with, the Varsity Scouts ( 2 or 3 of them) met in the same gym as the Boy Scouts, and only played basketball. And that was the extent of the meetings for both groups: basketball. And the Scouter serving as both SM and Coach really had no interest in Scouting. He was "called" to both roles (aside he was the 3rd or 4th adult in the role since recharter, 7 months previous), had no kids in Scouting, and really was not interested in the program. As for Venturing, I have not seen LDS Venturers in the district I've been in. All that said, the LDS essentially has been running their own program for years. They said in the article, and is all over the comments, that Varsity and Venturing are not run like they are supposed to be run. Is it any wonder why the youth are not interested in those programs? Some commentators noted they duel register in their LDS troop, and a non-LDS troop, in order to get a true Scouting experience. Regarding money and BSA doubling down on failed and/or questionable programs. Having been a professional on the council level, and also working for national supply, I can tell you there are professional who not only have no interest in the outdoors, But i would not trust to teach the old Map and Compass belt loop as they would get lost on a football field being used as a compass course. Seriously, you have "experts" being hired for whatever specialty is needed, but they cannot apply their expertise to Scouting's core: the outdoors. If these "experts" are liek the ones I've seen in academia and medicine, they are so focused on their specialty, they cannot "think outside the box" and adapt their specialty to others. Instead they force other areas to adapt to their specialty. And that results in failure. Soccer and Scouting is one failed program taking out the outdoors. Some can argue Exploring and Venturing are dying because they dissipated the outdoors. Exploring started losing numbers when it became career oriented. And Venturing has the outdoors as one of 5 specialty areas. Look how that is going. And of course, the elephant in the room, the failed Improved Scouting Program of the 1970s. The only good thing out of that fiasco was Green Bar Bill came out of retirement to rewrite the Boy Scout handbook, and training programs, and saved the BSA. I was lucky enough to use that handbook, and do his training as a Scout. I see the same failure coming with STEM Scouts. I know that there were several STEM MBs that folks tool last year because they thought it would be fun, and it was. Different camp advertises these MBs in the STEM program area, there is no interest from those who were but didn't take it last year. All because of STEM. It is resource intensive, and I cannot see it as sustainable without large expenditures of money. And out current CSE has a background in Exploring. I see folks trying to dissipate Scouting's original focus, and be all things to everyone. And you cannot do it. I see traditional scouting losing. T As for money, others have said what I would say.

My thoughts, and I will be rambling as I always do. We all know that LDS units are run differently, i.e. old 3 year Cub Scout program, 11 year old Boy Scouts in their own program, 14 becoming Varsity and focusing on basketball, 16 becoming a Venturer. From reading the comments on some of the links provided, as well as my own observations of and discussions with LDS Scouters, LDS units have major problems because of Scouter turn over. Let's face it, it takes more than 1, 2, or 3 years to be an effective Scouter. And from what I've seen the Scouters are not in that position even a year a times. Plus they are not volunteers with a vested interest in the units. LDS Scouters are "called" or appointed, sometimes even if they have no interest or sons in the program. Will a Scouter with no interest, seeing the position as a job with a definitive end in sight really invest in training? We all know the answer to that. While I understand the 3 year Cub Scout program, heck that is what I went through, I really do not understand the constant changes from 11 year old to 12-13 to Varsity at 14 to Venturing at 16. From everything I've read and heard, again from LDS Scouters, the 11 year old program is a repetitive, Webelos 3, or in the LDS case Webelos 2, program where the adults do all the planning and teaching with little to no involvement. The sole purpose of that program is to "get First Class" by the time they turn 12. The patrol method is not really used, being given lip service. When you get to the Boy Scouts at 12 and 13, You get into the turn over and training problems I mentioned above. How can adult with no interest in being a Scouter really do an effective job advising and mentoring a bunch of Scouts who have for the first time been give actual leadership responsibilities? More later.

My thoughts. Since when is an Eagle Project considered a troop activity requiring adult present? According to the Guide to Safe Scouting " There are instances, such as patrol activities, when the presence of adult leaders is not required and adult leadership may be limited to patrol leadership training and guidance. With proper training, guidance, and approval by troop leaders, the patrol can conduct day hikes and service projects. page 1 ( page 10 of pdf found here http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416.pdf) I have seen projects where no adults were involved in the actual service. Heck the only adult at my projectwas my mother, and she was there because she drove me. The Scouts and I did all the work. As someone else noted the "we" is bothering too. I have had the opportunity to sit in on the approval process for an Eagle Project for two scouts. While one needed help regarding the paperwork, he knew his project proposal inside out, and the only time adults got into it was to give clarification and some additional ideas he did not think of. The other one had his paperwork all in order, but talking about it, he needed his dad, also the SM, to help him out.