Eagle94-A1

My local UW still only does designations to the local council. Been that way since the SCOTUS decision.

We have a volunteer who is upset because the same people appear to get elected SPL and PLs. He wants to appoint all positions. IT DOES NOT WORK! (emphasis). Some Scouts who are appointed have no interest in the POR and could care less. Some Scouts who are interested, but do not have the knowledge, skills or abilities to do it. Other Scouts, seeing this then act indifferent or with disrespect towards them. Long story short, the troop slowly dies. I've seen one troop do just that. As soon as the new SM started appointing PLs and the SPL so that "everyone gets a chance," the troop started losing members to other troops, or outright quitting.

A 37.5% increase is HUGE. On top of that, some councils like mine add an insurance fee. And other councils are charging a surcharge. For those of us on a tight budget, it adds up FAST. At one time all 5 in my family were supposed to be registered. $9 x 5 = $45 extra, That may not seem like a lot, but for some of us it is. And in the manner national has been making these pronouncements, that is extremely troubling. Yes, I drink the company's bug juice from time to time. I am a former pro and understand some of the things they do. But this is ridiculous.

Initially this was going to be a rant. But instead this is a proud dad moment. My son is currently the SPL. Last month the theme was canoeing. For a variety of reasons, only 2 weeks were spent on the theme before the camp out and then moving onto wilderness survival. One of the new cross over parents posted a picture from the weekend, and the comment that they need to finish the canoeing MB and the youth leaders need to set it up and get the troop to finish what they started. Several of the new parents liked the comment. My son replied that unfortunately they already have things planned that the Scouts need to get ready for, specifically the next camp out and the camporee. I think my son handled it professionally and courteously. very glad about that. Here's the irony. While the goal was not to earn Canoeing MB, he did plan on spending more than 2 meetings on the topic before the camp out so it would be possible for some to finish it. Adults coming up with last minute stuff interfered with those plans.

All the above. Grant you, I do have one Smokey that I only use for special occasions, i.e. BnGs, COHs, banquets, etc. But my primary has been through numerous meetings, camp outs, hikes, and yes pre and post meeting errands. It's survived a hurricane, been shot at by German Scouts, and went to a WSJ with me.

Back when Cub Scouts was a 3 year program. I was bored out of my gourd until Webelos. Thankfully there have been major improvements, especially since Cubs can now camp. But 4.5 years, now 5.5 years with Lions is LLLLOONNNGGG I did 6 years as a DL and I burned out. Part of that was the lack of help from the parents and grandparents with my 3rd TC den. But part of that is being a CS leader is extremely tiring. Trying to keep that energy up to keep them interested and active and having fun is exhausting. Thankfully the kids put up with my stories as a Scout. And I took them to Boy Scout activities, specifically the Boy Scout areas of the council camporees, to see what they will be doing in a few years. That kept mine motivated.

Agreed. And I mentioned the scenario above at the council meeting. It appeared that everyone in the room agreed that will happen. At least one other attendee commented that it would probably also happen with their troop due to small numbers and lack of volunteers. Council key 3 appeared to have agreed with the assessment and moved on to the next question.

Glad the gangs are are helping. I heard a story about the Cajun Navy volunteer getting shot at by looters, and I had it confirmed from an elementary school friend involved that there is a section of Houston they and the Texas Navy will no longer go to because the looters shot at them in an attempt to steal the boats. They are letting the sheriffs' deputies and USCG deal with the rescues in that area. Praying for you guys.

If pioneering is no longer considered Scoutcraft in 2017, then why is basic pioneeringskills still required for Scout, Tenderfoot,Second Class and First Class ranks as well as a Pioneering Merit Badge, designed for 12 year olds as you mentioned, still around? Pioneering is still a traditional Scoutcraft skill, still required for advancement, has the potential to keep older Scouts involved if given the chance, AND had relevance in the 21st Century. Don't believe pioneering is relevant in the 21st? Ask the NASA astronaut who lashed the Space Shuttle's broken arm intoplace so that they could return to Earth. Yes the OP has been answered. Sadly you and the rest of national do not see the point. The rules and regs are sucking the lifeblood out of Scouting.The ban on water guns made us a laughing stock nationally, and is ignored not only by volunteers but also professionals. At the one day camp, the DE said "Waterguns are no longered allowed by the BSA. So bring your personal water soaking devices to cool down.: The ban are wagons for under 14 and service projects caused a bunch of 8 year old Bears to laugh when I told htem about it. Yes, a bunch of 8 year olds thought the rule was a joke. Look at the restrictions on power tools. You do realize that Girl Scouts can use powertools, but we cannot ? https://www.kansasgirlscouts.org/content/dam/kansasgirlscouts/documents/All%20Safety-Activity%20Checkpoints.pdf Maybe should quit as a volunteer now. I should have realized when I worked for national back in the day that the powers that be do not listen to those of us with boots still on the ground until after the mistakes are made and a solution is needed to fix problems.

Concealed on the person, i.e. under a coat, shirt, etc. At least in NC. In a backpack would be considered storing, plus with other camping gear you have an argument for a legitimate activity needing it. Me personally, my buscraft/survival knife is HUGE My wife and her family got me a Becker 21 Reinhardt-Becker Kukri. I made a MOLLE compatible sheath for it so I can put it on the outside of my ALICE and other packs. And just like firearms, you need to be careful where you bring ANY type of knife, sheath or folding. Until NC changed the laws stating sub-jurisdictions could not add to the knife laws, there were some areas in the state I could not bring my Gerber Gator because the blade length was to long.

Richard, Just because something comes from across the pond, doesn't mean our Scouts would not be interested. Heck Scouting for Boys came from across the pond. As for where ideas come from BSA's program, here are two links I found from councils' douments on pioneering projects. http://www.pioneeringprojects.org/resources/ebooks/LeaderTrainingConference.pdf http://www.pioneeringprojects.org/resources/ebooks/A32_PION_PROJECTS.pdf If I had more time, I would start pulling historical BSA photos with now banned pioneering projects. My personal favorite is the 30' Signal Tower with a Scout on it from the 1937 NSJ. And if you want, I look at my collection of handbooks and field books when I get home. But if you have time, and the museum is not already packed up and moved to Philmont, maybe a visit to the archives would show you some of the wonderful pioneering projects BSA allowed in the past. Regarding supplies, with proper planning you can get them. For the Arial Runway project, my troop called it The Bosun Chair, we were able to get supplies. We either got them donated, or got permission to cut down. Helps to have someone with access to a tree farm. EDITED: Forgot to add, I used pictures from overseas deliberately to show relevance today. If BSA wants to use oveseas Scouting associations as models for going coed (the one going around looks like how the Finns do Scouting and Guiding), then why not use their examples for pioneering. But I did find that some Troops are ignoring the G2SS ban and making pioneering projects over 6 feet.

Agree 110% I think that some attempts have been made with Journey to Excellence, but I think the standards are so low or focused on the wrong aspects of Scouting that many consider it a joke. I would say training is needed. But on the Boy Scout level, training is going down. I admit I complained about the month long Scoutmaster Fundamentals I took back in the day. But part of that was I was a new ASM just from the ranks who also did Brownsea 22, the NYLT of the day, and really knew the program. Over the years, I've seen how important that training is, especially for those with limited or no experience as a youth. Instead of making Training easier, they need to focus more on the basics. But even with more and better training, you still have volunteers who think they know better. I personally trained some folks, and later they told me "Scouting needs to change with the times." More later.

I had some folks look at me crazy last night when I was discussing sheath knives at a upcoming camporee. I actually had a parent pull up state law and attempted to say that sheath knives were illegal. I told him the key words to the law is "illegal to carry concealed."

When you got key Scouters in the unit who are ready to go coed, it may not matter what the Boy Scouts want. The only choice they have in voting on to accept girls or not is with their feet. Regarding COs. so many are hands off, I do not think they will care.

He did talk to 2 other parents, and they were OK with it. But they are also Scouters who camp with the troop. Now his mother, who is a committee member said heck no her granddaughter will not be in a coed troop, so it's going ot be interesting. As for me, I'm with my sons. Both of them are against the BSA going coed. I don't know if they will quit, join the troop that will go all male, or go to Trail's Life. But they do not like the idea of girls in the troop.

Hawkwin, Not only was i told by Scouters in my district that they would create "paper girl troops" and fully integrate them into the existing Boy Scout troop, when I mentioned this at the council meeting, several others agreed with me that this would indeed happen. Further, the Council President, Commissioner, and Scout Executive essentially acknowledged that paper girl units would indeed happen, and that Boy Scout troops would essentially be integrated. They did not seem tpo be bothered by this. And 12 of the 18 Scouters present didn't seem to care if it happen either. heck several agreed with me and said they would do that. If we follow the UK's model, then eventually ALL units will go coed. This hill especially happen when the LDS leave the Boy Scouts IMHO.

No you were not the only one.In fact I commented on how it was not really an appropriate article for Scouting magazine since it focused on family camping instead of patrol camping for the 11-16 years initially mentioned, and that BALOO covers a lot of the materials for Packs to go back and teach to their new families. Another reason why I'm worried about "family Scouting."

Sadly, the way the BSA has handled the town hall meetings, it is a major charley foxtrot. At the meeting I attended, about 15 people were there because it was very last minute. Most were Venturing leaders, and only 3 of us opposed Boy Scouts going coed attended. And all my arguments on why their proposal won't work were ignored, or had a look of 'Yeah, we know what's going to actually happen and we don't care." But I know there are many opposed. I had a Scouter tell me 'Hell no I won't allow my granddaughter to join the troop,'" yet her son is 110% for BSA going fully coed. heck he was the one saying he doesn't care what the actual format is, he's going coed. And I was told that one of the oldest troops in my council, it actually predates the council, will dissolve if they have to take females into the troop, as what happened in the UK.

When I commented how a 'separate but equal" program will not work because you would have two sets of meetings, camp outs, summer camps, etc and that I have been told by Scouters that they will integrate girls into the troop if they have "separate but equal" the feeling I got at the council's meeting was one of 'yes, we know that's going to happen and we don't care."

Why not swimming? You do know that BSA made Uniform swim trunks at one time! Seriously though, BSA at one time made OD swim trunks that could be used as uniform trunk. An aquatics director I know had connections with national supply, and got them to make them. rationale is that aquatics staffs sometimes cannot make it to dinner on time and needed something they could just put a shirt on with. Plus it promoted uniformity of the aquatics staff. Didn't go far with that one. Here's a link to a pair on sale on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/391703233196?chn=ps&dispItem=1

Please tell me you are joking. The issue is that under current GTSS policies, pioneering projects are extremely limited. Note: Pioneering projects, such as monkey bridges, have a maximum height of 6 feet. Close supervision should be followed when Scouts are building or using pioneering projects. Unless NCAP has been changed, the only way to go higher than 6 feet is at a council summer camp program with the council's risk management's approval. What's going to happen when we host the WSJ in 2019? will we ban structures over 6 feet? Or will Summit staff go around and approve everything? let's face it, pioneering is a traditional Scoutcraft, and some countries think the BSA is silly for the restrictions. Gone are the days where Boy Scouts in the US could build cool stuff like towers, Bosun Chair Rides, Ferris Wheels ad nauseum. I remember when my troop growing up use to build 2 towers 15-20 feet and 25-30 tall, connect steel rope between them, and connect a Bosun's Chair so that folks could ride between the two towers. We use to have a 30 minute wait to have people on the ride. When national put those height limits in effect, my troop stopped going to Scout Shows because they were BORING. We went to only 1 after the ban, and that was because William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt was there. As for pioneering being a MB targeted to 12 year olds, Then how do you explain these: http://www.scoutresources.org.uk/SR/pioneering/index.html https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/8c/8a/51/8c8a514796cb2cd6d70de72f1307415b.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/7f/78/21/7f7821be92984d0c66513dbfb2fb2a1f.jpg http://the.earth.li/~db/photos/World%20Scout%20Jamboree/World%20Scout%20Jamboree%20-%20photo054.html https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/1f/11/81/1f118151ffdafe8facd28d6696d4830e.jpg

My advice: llegitimi non carborundum.

Variety of reasons why a camp will put age restrictions. One reason is the popularity of the class. Age limits are used to restrict the number in the class to a manageable level. Another reason might be to have incentives for the older Scouts to come back to that camp. But the #1 reason may be local laws. Some jurisdiction do have restrictions on shooting sports. One guy I met told me that the camp he worked at straddled a state line. Shooting Sports areas was a distance from the bulk of the camp because the state that the areas was in allowed folks to use firearms at 16, and the state the bulk of the camp was in would not allow any shooting sports save archery.

Back when I was a COPE Director, we could certify pioneering structures. So I see the usefulness of a pioneering certification. But who would it be for Scouts or adults? If only for adults, why not for Scouts? And if for Scouts, will we put in stupid age restrictions?

Apparently they are not allowing commentary on the article. I Asked why are posting articles on family camping with 11-16 year olds, what that is Scout aged youth and should be doing Patrol camping. I also stated that the article is in the wrong journal since all the information is basic BALOO level info, and most packs I know of do an intro to camping for their new families. EDITED: This really concerns me because it appears that BSA IS trying to promote family camping now. I have seen, and am unfortunatley seeing now, what family camping does to troops and patrols.