Eagle94-A1

Sadly in my troop it's still the adults. Although the youth are making progress. The adults will jump in and take over when something goes wrong still. At least they are letting the Scouts do their thing until somehting happens, which is an improvement. They would jump in previously. The new volunteers are still acting like Cub Scout leaders, and that is not helping matters. They do not understand the patrol method, still jump in for their sons, and are focused on the "legality" of advancement and not the spirit of it. We had one Scout get scared and run to dad's shelter this weekend. Since he slept under the stars, technically he counts as camping still. Problem was, he abandoned his partner, who when he got scared came over as well. And dad has already said he is not pushing his son out. But the worse thing now is now one adult is saying the unit elections are popularity contests because the same Scouts keep getting elected, and it is starting to spread. The adult starting this is upset because his older son has never held elected office, only appointed positions. What he is conveniently forgetting is that his older son either A) said he was not interested in running or B) when "encouraged" to run by Dad and/or other adults, the Scouts know he is not interested, so they do not vote for him. As for younger son, while he enthusiastically runs for election, he is the on who complains, whines, drags his feet, etc when things need to be done. Again none of the Scouts vote for him as a result. And as I stated the "elections are popularity contests" are now starting to spread. One parent hearing this agreed because his son has never held elected office, only appointed ones. What dad is forgetting what he said a few years back: the family situation only allows the Scout to be there 2/3 of the time, and the Scouts realize this so the son isn't elected. And the SM commented on it too. I know it is disappointing not to be elected PL or SPL. While I was elected PL the 2nd time around, I was never elected SPL. I was always appointed ASPL.

This may help. https://www.scoutstuff.org/media/content/docs/pdfs/6568_103111_BS_UniformInspSheet_R11.pdf

Most definately. With the exception of the Wilderness Survival MBP, everything I've read on survival, including older older BSA publications, states the a sheath knife is preferred in a survival situation. That's why for the district event coming up, sheath knives are encouraged: batoning, feather sticks, etc. Some of the Cubs I've seen with sheath knives include KaBars and Bucks. I know I got my 3 hoodlums Mora Companions.

Yes, a lot of misinformation out there. If BSA banned sheath knives, like one secretary from national stated, then A) why is that not stated in G2SS and B) Why does national sell about 10 different sheath knives now. Also know about council rules being stricter. What I find funny is that the summer camp my council runs does indeed ban sheath knives but A) allows Scouts to make them as part of the older Scout program or Metalworking MB and B) there is no ban on them at the other council camps, including the one the event is at. As for local laws, there is no length restrictions, but certain types are illegal for minors to possess. Long story short, being out in the country, I've seen folks carrying sheath knives at events, including a Cub or two. We have an event that sheath knives are being encouraged for the Boy Scouts to use since it is wilderness survival based. But Webelos are invited to attend, and can do events, time and BSA rules permitting. And I bet there will have a few Webelos with sheath knives, although the section on sheath knives was omitted from teh Cub Scout documents.

Folks, Need your input. What do you think of a Webelos carrying a sheath knife on a Castaway Adventure (wilderness survival) camp out? While the Webelos Handbook says something about pocket knives, there is no mention on sheath knives. In fact the wording is similar to the Boy Scout handbook, which also has no mention of sheath knives. Only things I can find regarding sheath knives and official BSA sources are several Boys'Life magazine articles, Bryan's Blog, Scoutstuff.org 15 sheath knives they now sell, and of course, this from Guide to Safe Scouting. Knives A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. The BSA believes choosing the right equipment for the job at hand is the best answer to the question of what specific knife should be used. We are aware that many councils or camps may have limits on the type or style of knife that should be used. The BSA neither encourages nor bans fixed-blade knives nor do we set a limit on blade length. Since its inception, Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives. This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature. We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility. Remember—knives are not allowed on school premises, nor can they be taken aboard commercial aircraft. References: Boy Scout Handbook, Fieldbook, Bear Handbook, and Wolf Handbook So no where in any BSA literature I've found does it prohibit Webelos from carrying a sheath knife. Your thoughts.

I can see it now, male Scouter self identifying as a female Scouter so that girls can camp. Don't know if that is better or worse than calling Scouting trips 'Family Camping" when ther is no female Scouter able to go. Seriously though, Female leadership would be required if girls are present if we use Venturing YPT as the model. Which scuttlebutt says is in fact the case with new YPT that will be coming out soon. May not necessarily be Moms per se, but definately female leaders will be needed.

Even if you tell parents multiple times, they still will not get it. We held multiple meetings, talked multiple outside of meetings etc, AND SOME PARENTS STILL DO NOT GET IT! ( emphasis) We told parents before their sons joined the troop that advancement is the sons' responsibility. We will help them, but they need to do the work. We went over the process of advancement, and even the purpose of Boy Scout meetings ( instruction and skills) vs. Cub Scout meetings (advancement), and we still have parents upset their son got a partial at summer camp, or never finished a MB after 2 troop meetings and a weekend camp out. One mom even asked what is the purpose of weekend camping if they are not going to earn anything by being there.

People may have a computer, but still not be able to do IA due to internet connectivity. My pack bought the downloadable version of PACKMASTER software. This is the one you download, and do not need internet to use. We got this version because of the known connectivity issues in the area. Supposedly it interfaces with IA. Every time I attempted to use that feature, after waiting extremely long periods of time, it would kick me off the system with a message stating it was taking too long. It would provide paper copies of the report,and that is what we used. Thankfully I got off dial up when we got the chance. But there are still folks who are unable to get high speed internet service. Troop's old SM who did the advancement reports was one of those folks. Now I am the one who does it. And I am using IA. But I know of 3 units in the district that are not in high speed areas. Thankfully the CM/ASM of 2 units works somewhere that is OK with him doing IA.

My gut feeling is that the decisiom has been made and BSA is going through the motions, I've had a council employee tell me the decision will be announced in January, my DE when I talked to him about it was shocked I knew about the January annoucement, and the SE at the town hall meeting said we may hear something "Sometime after January." Then we are getting all this "Family Scouting" "Camp with the Fam" and "Scouting serves the Family" message in various BSA literature, promotioms, and advertising. And lets not forget the new July 2017 applications which have no gender restrictions for Cub and Boy Scouts.

My 5th grade teacher, who was a nun and worked at a summer retreat house. SHe would either lifeguard or backpack, depending upon the need.

I don't think that will happen. Venturing, which is already coed, does not give a parent exemption. Plus what about the girls who do not have a dad going?

Imagine how many boys will drop if they cannot go camping. We had one troop close down because they could not get enough volunteers to camp with the troop. The troop folded and the members went to 2 different troops, or quit completely. Heck my Webelos son didn't go on a pack lock in last night because "It's not camping."

Agree, the units own the problem and need to correct it. And agree sometimes records are illegible, have the wrong names, etc. But when a unit hand delivers computer generated reports to insure that the council is getting the reports to be entered into SCOUTNET, then the problem is on the council, not the unit. Don't get me started on volunteer applications. My wife filled out paperwork to work with the pack as a WDL, 3 times about 4 years ago. She was never registered. She filled it out in June, then again in September, then again December to get on the charter. We thought surely her application and YPT card would FINALLY make it on the charter. Didn't find out until April when the pack went to put her in for a Heroism Award that she was still not registered/ She said forget about registration as it is not worth the trouble.

The challenge with the BSA creating a parallel program for girls 11 (or 10 with AOL , etc) -18 is that we already have volunteers stating they will ignore that policy. While on paper there will be a separate girls only unit, in reality the girls will be integrated into the existing Boy Scout troop. Not only Scouters in my own troop said that, but Scouters at the town hall meeting on the topic stated it. And the Council Key 3 gave the impression that "yes, we know this is going to happen and don't care" from their body language. I admit I'm not an expert in developmental psychology. And it's been over 20 years since I took a course in the topic. But some of the things off the top of my head include: Writing style of literature. Let's face it boys and girls are different, and authors do write towards a specific population. Training for adults and Scouts. Been a while since I staffed JLT, so I do not know if Counseling is still part of the syllabus, but there are subtle difference in how to cousel boys and girls. And let's face it, all of the training deals with working with boys, except Sea Scouts and Venturing. Youth Protection. This is probably the biggest. Scuttlebut is that new YPT will be coming out for everyone, including Scouts, and it will be based upon Venturing's YPT since it deals with coed issues. We all know that there will be units that go fully coed with the parallel units meetings, camping, etc at the same time with the same Scouters. What will happen when the "girls' unit" doesn't have a female Scouter to camp with them? Will the 2 units cancel the trip, only the "Boys' unit" can go and the girls cannot, or will they do something that one Scouter said he would do: turn the camp out into a "Family Camp Out" so that as long as a dad goes, the daughter can go too? Yes, I've already had a Scouter state that scenario. There are other issues that escape me at the moment. I'll revisit as I can think of them. In the videos they showed at the Townhalls, the suggestion was to either work with an existing group to offer girls a more Boy Scout program, or BSA create their own, all girl program for 11 - 18 year olds. Some countries WOSM do just that. When I worked with Finnish Scouts back in the day, their program was coed at the Cub level, then split into separate Boy Scouts and Girls Scouts ( or maybe Guides, don't remember all the details), then coed Venturing age program. It worked for them because the Boy Scouts and Girls Scouts in Finland merged together. They keep the traditions and ranks of both programs at the Boy Scout level, which is wider known and respected than Cub level. I agree GSUSA will not work with us. And despite Campfire being created by BSA founders in 1910 as a parallel program for girls, they wen their own way a long time ago. American Heritage Girls will no longer work with us since the membership policies changed. AHG would have been the ideal group to merge with since their program DID copy the BSA's to the point that their girls and volunteers could attend BSA events and training and receive an equivalent award or recognition. However one of the challenges with the AHG troop that my CO chartered was a lack of female volunteers to take them camping. WOW. Either you got a new application by mistake, or national hasn't updated their website since they still have the 115 (January 2015) application is still up their. I also noticed that Lions, which is supposedly a pilot program still, is listed on the 717 application. I really believe the decision is made, and as my sources have told me, the announcement will be made in January. It's been mentioned that Varsity will cease to exist as of January 1, 2018. Why do I believe that national had that decision made a while ago too?

I'm opposed because the program will need to be changed to incorporate girls in Scouting, and that takes away from the boys. Whatever you think about the various studies on whether single gender or coed education and programs are better for youth or not, the BSA's program is geared for them. A parallel program already exists, GSUSA, and from what I keep hearing it sucks. I think GSUSA needs to change how they do things to attract the girls who want to be in Boy Scouts. But let's face reality. The decision has already been made. If it was not made already, then why is BSA going on a major "Scouting is for the Family" i.e. Scouting Magazine's article on family camping (which was horribly out of place IMHO), national is promoting, "Camp with the Fam" with the scout shops, CS promo materials have sisters in the pics, and the video promo with the single mom family with the sister doing activities with her now Boy Scout brother. Call me a cynic, but the decision has already been made, they just have not announced it yet (January 2 sources have told me). And whether BSA wants it or not THERE WILL BE FULLY INTEGRATED CUB SCOUT DENS AND INTEGRATED TROOPS (caps for emphasis) I've already commented on this topic in other threads, and it came up at roundtable. There are not enough volunteers to have segregated dens and/or troops.

BSA does not have a national coed Cub Scout and Boy Scout program, YET (emphasis, Gut feeling is the decision is made and waiting for people to get use to the idea with all the family scouting oriented articles and camp promotions that has been coming out of late i.e. Scouting Magazine, newest Scouting promo video, ad nauseum. But scuttlebutt is that there are some districts/councils piloting coed Cub Scouts. I t would be interesting to here from those areas, if that is the case. Personally I do know of 1 family that will either leave the pack and do Lone Cub Scouts, or suck it up for a few months until the Cub Crosses Over. The troop he is joining has already stated that they will fold before allowing girls into the program. It is an outreach ministry of their church, and the church has said "NO!" (emphasis as that was in the conversation). I know my oldest 2 are not in favor of going coed. I haven't told them that several adults in the troop are chomping at the bit to get their girls in. Don't know if they will stay or transfer to the male only troop.

With all due respect, up until circa 1995 or 96, Varsity was in fact sports oriented. From 1982 or 83 until 1989, the only way for a Varsity Scout to earn the "Varsity Letter" needed for the Denali Award was to earn one of the Varsity Pins, which were all sports oriented;baseball, basketball, etc. In 1989, Venture crews replaced the Leadership Corps for older Boy Scouts. The Varsity letter became the "Varsity/Venture Letter," or "Venture/Varsity Letter" depending upon which book you read (I've seen it as both in BSA literature), and new high adventure oriented pins were created for Venture crews only. Varsity Scouts could only earn the Varsity Pins (sports oriented), and Boy Scouts in Venture crews could only earn the Venture Pins (traditional Scouting). Sometime around 1995 or 1996, Varsity Scouts and Boy Scouts in Venture crews could earn any of the pins: Varsity or Venture. That policy lasted after Venture crews became Venture patrols in 1998 with the introduction of Venturing, until 2016 The Boy Scout/Varsity Scout Uniform Inspection Sheet 2016 Printing Still had it listed as "Venture/Varsity Letter" http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34283.pdf. Now Venture patrols are called "Older Scout Patrols." Having worked in a National Scout shop part time for 1 year, and FT for 2 years, the only time we ever sold any of the pins, and the manager said it was the only time the pins were sold, was to a summer camp staff trying to promote a HA program at the camp. He was using the letter and pins as part of his display.

No the council did not mention it's mandatory, or strongly encouraged it. If it was mandatory, or strongly encouraged, The Scout Exec would have told me when I mentioned how records were not being recorded. Problem where we are at is some folks are out in the boonies. High speed internet is not available in some areas. And the internet companies are no help either. Remember that FCC ruling saying a government utility service could provide internet service outside their city limits, and SCOTUS later stated the FCC ruling violated law? That was one of the cities in my council trying to expand the high speed internet service to areas in the county because internet providers would not do it. I had to do live YPT for some folks because they could not do it online in a reasonable time. To test it our, I tried to redo my YPT at their facility, and I was unable to get through the first 10 minutes of the online training in 90 minutes!

Am I the only one who has a council that has major issues with advancement records? Back when I was working with a pack, I would be the one turning in ARs and buying advancement because I worked about 10 minutes from a neighboring council's office. After my council sent a duplicate order of awards, I would write "DO NOT SEND AWARDS" (sic) and 1/2 the time they would send a second batch. BUT THE AWARDS WOULD NOT BE RECORDED IN THE COUNCIL'S RECORDS (emphasis) I remember hand delivering records to my council's office. Buy the awards. but once I got access to Internet Advancement, I discovered THE AWARDS WOULD NOT BE RECORDED IN THE COUNCIL'S RECORDS (emphasis). I got into a heated discussion with the SE on this matter. He was jumping on my district's case about not having Cub Scout advancement on par with other districts. I told him about the instances above and said he needed to look at the council office. That's when other commissioners pointed out similar problems with those units that didn't do Internet Advancement. Apparently the council focused on Boy Scout advancement since it had to be reviewed in order to get Eagle. Cub Scouts not so much. Since the person who did advancement with the troop stepped down, I picked it up. He didn't do IA. Going through it, I discovered all the new guys who earned Scout do not have it in their records. I'm wondering if Scout ranks were not recorded since they were originally not ranks per se.

Has anyone else got an email from Scoutstuff.org about 'Camping with the Fam," or seen their Family Camping Events promo on the homepage? Grant you most of the gear they are pushing has the Cub Scout logo, but they are pushing family big time. I think the decision has been made. On a different note, I may start backing away from the troop. There is a wilderness survival camp out and we have one family saying they will attend. If the Cub was a Webelos, i'd be cool since it's A) Meeting Castaway requirements, and B) It's recruiting. But the little brother is a Tiger, and ran around interferring last time. When I talked to the scouter heading up the trip about it, he had no problem with the family attending. When I mentioned it's going to be interesting with the family staying in a survival shelter, the comment was "Leaders can stay in tents." I was always taught that the Scouters do the same things as the Scouts.

EXACTLY! The Scouts know who do the jobs and who don't better than the adults do. Me personally, I wish the troop my boys are in would allow reelections. After 6 months, they have to step down and either A) run for a different position or B) wait until the next election to get back in.

With all due respect Latin Scot, multiple BSA sources say units, specifically the SM, Skipper, Coach or Adviser, can indeed limit who the Scout or Venturer has as a MBC by designating a specific counselor for them to use. From http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/MBCounselorGuide.aspx "A Scout first expresses an interest in a particular merit badge by letting his unit leader know. To get him started, the leader gives him a signed Application for Merit Badge (blue card) along with the name and contact information for a district/council approved merit badge counselor. " ( bold for emphasis here and after) Also check out http://councils.scouting.org/scoutsource/Scouting/Training/Adult/Supplemental/MeritBadgeCounselorInstructorsGuide.aspx?print=1 "When a Scout has decided on a merit badge he would like to earn, he obtains from his Scoutmaster the name and phone number of the district/council-approved merit badge counselor." From here: http://councils.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/18-125.pdf "3. The Scout indicates his interest in a merit badge to his Scoutmaster, who gives him a. An interview to determine interest, enthusiasm, preparedness b. A signed Application for Merit Badge c. The name and phone number of the council/district approved counselor." From here: http://councils.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34405.pdf "Instructions to Counselors • The unit leader (Scoutmaster, Varsity Coach, crew Advisor, or Skipper) recommends and provides the name and contact information of at least one merit badge counselor to each Scout desiring to work on a merit badge." So if the SM doesn't want the parents to teach the MB, then the SM assigns a different MBC to use. And I can understand why a unit would not want the parents to be their son's MBC. They can be too easy or too hard. Sadly their was an issue in my council a number of years back with one "Eagle." With the exception on MBs earned at summer camp, all MBs were done with Grandpa, Mom, and Dad, who held CC, SM, and ASM positions in the troop. They just signed them off, giving them to him. The issue became known at the Eagle BOR. Long story short, he was denied his Eagle, and given a plan to rectify the situation. Family appealed all the way up to national. In the response from national granting him Eagle on appeal, the comment "You do not penalize the Scout for the errors of the adults involved." As a result, the entire district advancement committee resigned in protest. When I talked to the "Eagle" a few months later, he was like a deer in the headlights when I asked him about some things he should have done for multiple MBs. I was not trying test him, but being new to the area and a Indian Lore MBC, I was trying to get sources for local Indians. From that conversation, I could see why the Eagle was originally denied. On the opposite extreme, you got the hardnosed parents who demand more from their Scouts than others. I admit that is me. When my son got a partial from summer camp for a MB he actually completed (found out another Scout was in the same boat), I worked with him to complete the missing requirement and let him talk to his SM to finish it off instead of me. SM commented how I was harder on him than the other Scouts I worked with on the same MB. And really that goes all the way back to the first MBs he earned. He went to a MBU and took 2 MBs. One he legitimately earned. The other they gave him. Not only did the MBC use out of date requirements (8-10 year old if memory serves), the MBC didn't even do ALL of the requirements. I discussed the situation with my son, and had him complete the missing MB requirements. He was not happy with me at the time. But he understands why I did it. He's upset that folks have "earned" one particular MB at summer camp without completing all of the requirements. His MBC at home wants him to truly earn it. It's been 2 years since he started it, and now that he actually finished the one missing requirement, he has a blase' attitude about it since so many "earned" it.

No, you can NOT go wrong with bacon and chocolate. My "secret ingredient" is only in my current neck of the woods. Back home it was a staple: Tony Chachere's seasoning salt. We used it for everything. Another one, when I can get it, is coffee with chicory. Heat up some evaporated milk and make some Cafe au Lait.

What state was this in? Again local laws may mandate an age.

Every chapter and lodge is different. And things are cyclical. Sometimes a chapter is on top of the world. And other times, it's the last priority. Currently the OA chapter in my district is on the downswing. The really motivated youth aged out and/or went to college. The advisors that were the glue tot he leadership either got burned out, moved, had kids age out, or in my case, had kids in Cub Scouts. Now the chapter is a shadow of itself, and folks have no interest, including my son.