Eagle94-A1

Actually Surbaugh stated 11-14 year old boys and girls cannot camp together. The adults stating that they will integrate girls into their troops said they would use the 300' rule, i.e. patrol camp 300" away form each other, to get around this. And if Surbaufgh really did say this, then what about camporees, summer camp, and jambo. If he did say it, he wasn't thinking.

When you said Sam Browne, I thought you meant the sword belt. Depending upon where I am going or what type of camp out, I will wear a pistol belt. One of the nice things about A.L.I.C.E.and M.O.L.L.E. pouches, they can be put on just about any belt. MOLLE may slide around a bit, it works.

My Troop's CO already has a Frontier Girls. They are extremely small because they only have 2 volunteers, one of whom just aged out. Long story short, there is already talk of folding the FG, having them on paper as a separate unit, but fully integrating them into our troop. I know my Life and Tenderfoot Scouts are opposed allowing girls in. Their concerns is mostly Boy Scouts turning into Cub Scouts. Oldest is also concerned about the distractions girls will cause. We have enough challenges. I do not know what they will do. They do know that at lease 1 troop, possibly 2, will remain all male. I go where they go. I personally think this is the worse decision ever, it will hurt our current members big time IMHO. Thinking objectively, i know why BSA did this: money, membership, external and internal pressure, and it makes some sense. But the way National is going about it is totally fouled up and making it worse. To quote some German I learned in BAND OF BROTHERS, "It's FUBAR."

I remember being asked about about the 3 G's at my EBOR. That was in 92

@@John-in-KC thank you for posting the video. https://livestream.com/bsa/nationalcouncil/videos/164161163 1) I think he is telling some tall tales. Cub Scouts has not been 'Family oriented" for "generations" It only goes back about 20 - 25 years. 2) While I have not been to PTC, I really do not think somoen would take there granddaughter there. I could be wrong on that. 3) he's stated that the SEs were behind him. Then why was mine shocked? 4) He talked about the townhalls and surveys. What he didn't mention was A) you tolded the SEs to do these townhalls the day before jamboree starts, which many attend B) and give a a one month period for council to do the town hall meetings IN WHICH PART OF THAT TIME IS DURING THE JAMBOREE! ( emphasis.) Yes, my SE was extremely ticked off about that one. 5) Only way to take the survey was to get to the townhalls, and there were not given enough time. only 11000 folks participated. 6) says the survey questions were neutral. To quote Col. Potter, " HORSEHOCKEY!" The were designed to get a specific response: allow girls in Boy Scouts. Ok I can't take it. I can't finish it/

This topic came up at my town hall as I was the one who brought it up. I was told by several units who are struggling to get Adult volunteers that the proposed method is NOT feasible and they will fully integrate. Everyone for girls in BSA agreed this will happen with smaller units, and the council key 3' body language express a 'yeah we know this will happen" outlook. The Pros know and don't care.

Not stepping away completely just all the district/council level stuff. Am sticking with the troop my older two are in. Only district level POR will be MBC. Thinking about it, I've been on the district level in one council or another for over 20 years straight, with a brief 18 month unit only job due to grad school.

It's official, I'm burnt out. No, the new membership policy didn't do it. Finding out about a simulaneous event at the camporee I am running with out me knowing anything about it until someone sent me an email yeasterday made me realize I am burnt out. Scouting is not fun for me at the moment. Long story short I am running a camporee. Been on the books for a year now. Last week I started getting questions about Cub Scouts camping and fishing at the camporee. Was clueless until someone pointed out that the council calendar showed a fishing derby. at the same place and time as the camporee. I called to find out what was up and no one knew anything about it. So I had them take it off the website, posted on the district website that it was a mistake, and announced it at roundtable. Thought it was taken care of. Then a friend forwarded the email that went out yesterday inviting Cubs to the camp that weekend to fish.I was furious at how there was no discussion on the matter and how I had to find out. I found out from a forwarded email the DE sent out. I was furious to the point that I said out loud at work "I'm done, I quit as camporee chief." And the camporee is in 2 weeks. Thankfully I was able to calmed down. Realized the issue was a lack of communication, and I attempted to call the DE 3 times over a 5 hour period. Finally had to email him explained why it was a bad idea, and gave him two alternatives, a different weekend and a different location. camp is extremely small, approx 7-10 acres with 1/2 of that being a lake. And one section of the cmap is being used for training that weekend. Another section may be off limits because a bridge that was destroyed last year has not been rebuilt yet. It was going to be tight as it is. Then I received a curt brief reply. It doesn't matter what the other camporee chief and I want, the fishing will happen regardless. I never stated the small fishing pond was going to be used for events in the camporee guide. and that he wished I would have contacted him before posting on FB and at RT. Now my job responsibilities have changed over the years, and nights are now getting crazy. I have already missed meeting because of last minute stuff happening. And I raised the ire of my boss when I told them I could not do an event b/c I had to be at a scouting function I was in charge of and needed to be there. And that has caused a lot of stress. Plus with all the family stuff going on, that is more stress. I love spending time with the family, and with things going on, it seems as if I'm either doing Scouts, Work, Baseball, or the wife is doing school work. Sad that a funeral had to give us time as a family. I made a commitment to the Scouts to be the chief, and I am doing it. But told them I cannot do it next year. Also told the DE I need to step down as RT commissioner because of work. And I hope to give them to May when the RT takes a summer break. And he knew that was coming because I have been talking about stepping down for the past year. So I am making lemonade out of lemons. The response I had was a wake up call that I need to back away as I am burning out.

But what if you cannot get enough interest,both girls and volunteers, to create separate all girl units? That's the dilemma

Has anyone looked at the current membership applications with the print code of 717 for July 2017? They changed the wording regarding memerbship in Cub packs and Boy Scout troops. Instead of "Boys" the words "Youth" and "Children" are used. Plus Lions is fully incorporated into Cub Scouts accorind to the app. Yes, this decision was made a while back.

As others stated, ASPL assumes the SPL position. Now if he wants a Special Election, then he canhold one.

Southern Region, but I got the info from Western region council Because A) parents tend to destroy patrol dynamics in my experience and B) Parents bring siblings which also destroy the patrol method and possibly do things they are not suppose to do. Some of my experiences at the Boy Scout level when family camping is include: 1. Siblings causing several thousands of dollars in damage to a facility we are at. 2. Siblings complaining that they cannot do the activities the Boy Scouts are doing. As a result the parents start forbidding their scouts from doing the activity, resulting in NO ONE (emphasis) being able to do the activity. This ruined a trip the PLC planned about a year in advance, and was a 7+ hour drive one way. That entire trip was a waste of time, and the troop didn't do any more family camps until almost all involved were gone and no Scouts remembered the weekend. 3. Parents and siblings running amok. Seriously I've seen parents interfere with patrol and the siblings running around, getting in the way, and parents not doing a thing to stop it. 4. Parents completely disregarding the PLs, SPL, and Scouters trying to correct them. and this on numerous Cub Family camp outs as well as a few Boy Scout family camps 5. Parents doign whatever they want with the siblings, disregarding BSA rules and regs. I've seen alcohol, fireworks, firearms (OK, few firearms were OK since they were LEOs), disregard for Safe Swim Defense, Safety Afloat, and shooting sports.

The poll was in conjunction to the town hall meetings on the topic. If you didn't go, you were not suppose to get the link. One council posted the link to the movie and the survey, so I took it before my council did the town hall. Apparently I am in the minority. I think this is a bigger mistake than the Improved Scouting Program of the 1970s. Read where Surbaugh said no coed camping for 11-14 year olds. Already know A) troops will ignore it and B) One suggested way to get around it was to make all camp outs 'Family Camp Outs"

One of the reasons why I like mixed aged patrols: as Scouts age out/leave, new Scouts take their place. My troop growing up had 2 patrols that started the troop. Each patrol receive gear from the troop, but as things needed replacing and/or Scouts wanted new gear, each patrol purchased it on their own. Some of the gear was purchased by Scouts in the patrol 10-15 years previous. As I mentioned previously, the PLC needs to make the decision, not the adults. And upon thinking abut it, if you want to get technical and all legalese, since 2 of the 5 purchases are no longer involved, their shares of the property would go to the 2 remaining Scouts. So the 2 remaining Scouts should say what they want to do with the equipment. And any adults complaining can take a hike.

What does the PLC want to do with the gear? Thewy are the leaders in the troop, not the adults. They need to make the decision. With all due respect, your sentence should be the following, "MY EXPERIENCE IS THE ADULTS ARE OFTEN THE BIGGER ISSUE THAN THE KIDS!!!!!" Seriously, that is true 99.9999999999999% of the time.

Actually the ones who left want the adults to cook, clean, etc. They just want to play. One of them actually said that he didn't cook or clean up at home, why should he in Scouts.

Eternal rest grant onto him, oh Lord. And may perpetual light shine upon him. May he rest in peace. Amen. This hits home. I was briefly in Istrouma Area Council and remember meeting him at several OA functions.

Getting the adults more comfortable with leaving their sons alone is the biggest reason. I've had some dealings with helicopter parents (remember Gunship) but this last batch takes the cake. They have allowed their sons to sneak back into their tents or shelters when afraid. They have attempted to take over doing cooking and kp with the excuse "their doing it wrong." One parent has complained about the adults being too hard on their Scout for taking responsibility for packing, setting up and taking down for camp. And one parent will not let the Scout go camping without them. But also to get the kids use to doing things on their own. Because the way the new requirements are written, i.e. camping is not required for some thing, just being in the outdoors or building/setting up things counts, and the "Do Your Best" and get signed off mentality, some of these folks never set up a tent on their own prior to being a Boy Scout. At last year's Survival camp out which helped with their Castaway, none of this den's Webelos stayed overnight, and the shelter was primarily done by the parents. The kids added a few leaves or branches, the parents did the rest. None ever cooked or did KP before jing the troop. Heck, none ever camped with the troop, despite an open invitation to any and all campouts they can go on. That's what I'm hoping. Unfortunately I know I will be dealing with the parents because of the SM's schedule. Last 2 camp outs he was there only for a few hours due to work. While some issues he could address, most cannot. I agree, Boy Scouts is not for everyone. I do not think my youngest will stay in the program. But I hope I am wrong. But it seems as if the Cross Overs believe Boy Scouts will be a continuation of Cub Scouts where the adults do all the work, and you attempt to do something one time and you get credit for mastering the skill. And I know the parents are in that mentality despite parents' meeting with them. We have one guy pushing his 2 kids to get Eagle ASAP so they could move onto other things.

Well my troop situation is mixed. Problems we've had in the past have gotten better when we switched to traditional patrols. Older Scouts have taken the responsibility and are going with it. Are there challenges with them as leaders? Sure, it's to be expected. But the challenges we had are no more. The challenges we have now are the new batch of helicopter parents and the new Scouts. New Scouts are not taking responsibility for their actions, and the parents are still treating them as Cub Scouts. My middle son, who crossed over in January was the one commenting on the new batch we got in April. Thankfully he talked to the SM about the situation during his Tenderfoot SMC. Anyway, my chat with him got me thinking, the Webelos coming from the feeder pack tend to leave and not stick around. I know the comments from the group that joined when my oldest joined was that "it was too much work" and "I want to have fun on campouts, not cook and do KP." And this has repeated multiple times. It's as if the leadership with the pack is not making Webelos the transition to Boy Scouts it should be. I know Den Chiefs would be a great solution. Problem is the pack meets on the same nite as the troop. I'm thinking about going back to Cubs in the fall, and start working with the troop's feeder pack to get them better aclimated prior to becoming Boy Scouts. It seems as if both parents and Cubs are getting rude awakenings when the cross over.

I have mixed emotions on BALOO, ITOLS, etc. Regarding BALOO, for some folks it's making them jump through hoops to take their packs camping. Those are the ones who grew up in the program, have extensive camping backgrounds, and have been trained in specific training. I know I did not learn anything new when I took BALOO. Heck I could have taught the course since I taught IOLS and JLTC prior to doing BALOO. BUT we have new folks who have never been camping before. THEY NEED THE OVERNIGHT EXPERIENCE! ( emphasis) They need to get comfortable in the outdoors. So I'm glad it's overnight. Just wish gear was provided because some folks do not have gear. Regarding ITOLS, same as above, some grew up in the program, and have the knowledge,skills, and abilities to do Boy Scout, Sea Scout, and Venturing camping. My outdoor training was part of the old SM Fundamentals course, which included fast start, specific, and ITOLS, back in the day. Only new thing I learned was the paperwork side of things. But again, we got folks with no Boy Scout camping experience. They need it.

When Exploring split into two, Venturing and Exploring, Exploring came under the Learning For Life Subsidiary of the BSA. As a result, their membership policies changed. Part of that was the result of the Chicago lawsuit. Many folks advocate that STEM Scouts are true Scouts. If that is the case, then yes, they need to adhere to the Scout Oath and Law.

Don't know about his feeling towards Mormons, but he was ticked off about the policy changes. Made comments about coinincidence in timing of the policy change and the announcement of LDS doing away with Varsity and Venturing. I do know he had a few Eagles up against 18 have BORs in May and June, before the announcement occurred. Do not know if it was deliberate or not, but no district EBORS were requested for July or August.

I heard someone state that this new rule was written so that LDS Scouts could get all the Palms at one time and not have to stay registered longer to get them. I hope that isn't true.

We had an accident where we had both an MD and a certified flight nurse (CFRN, think ER nurse in a chopper). MD let the CFRN handle it. Now one MD I knew, had his act together in emergencies. He was a nephrologist, but he did some time in the Korean War. Don't remember if he was in a battalion aid station or a MASH, but he had some stories.

2nd edition fieldbook. Hugh McManners Complete Guide to Wilderness Survival US Army Survival Manual Woods Wisdom The Art of Manliness ( yesthey published a book)