Eagle94-A1

Regarding Boys' Life, the new fee increases have hurt. I use to have 3 subscriptions, one for each son. When the registration price went up, I dropped it to two: one Boy Scout version and one Cub Scout version. Now that the fee increased again, I cannot afford a single copy, let alone 3. And my kids are 100% ok with that because they did not even read it because it is boring. They all it appeared to be is a giant advertisement for gear and patches with a few Scouting related articles and jokes thrown in. I remember when BL was a great magazine. Artwork was good, they had serials ( White Mountains Trilogy anyone?) and of course Green Bar Bill. Looking at the current magazine, artwork is childish, the ads are overwhelming, and several articles have really been advertisements and not articles. Regarding Scouting Magazine, it has gotten to the point that it is really useless to me. little to no information I need is offered, and I can pick up stuff faster and easier via Bryan's Blog.

AND THIS IS WHY IT SNOWED!!!!!! http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/12/10/nfl-assigned-former-falcons-player-to-officiate-saints-falcons-game/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

I'm originally from New Orleans. Only twice in my memory has NO,LA had a real, true snow: when the Saints won the Super Bowl, and when the referees Atlanta Falcons beat the Saints last Thursday. In both cases, "everything" froze over.

This is LDS. Their program differs slightly due to their CO placing additional restrictions/ rules. Example of the all the 11 year olds in their separate patrol with a TG and 11 year old ASM (unique POR for LDS units) citef above, and how they get to First Class in a year led to the NSP program back in 1989. Sadly these issues appear to be ingrained in some, not all, LDS units. Talking to several experienced, long time LDS Scouts, part of the challenge is that being a Scouter is a "calling" and you are appointed to the position, whether you want it or not. I've seen major issues in those LDS units with Scouters who are called and do not want to be there really. On the other hand, you got LDS units with experienced Scouters who are not only called, but are willing to do the job. Those units tend to do a heck of a lot better. The other challenge according to one LDS Scouter is that " the further away from Salt Lake City a troop is, the more likely the differences in program."

You do realize that s n o w is a four letter word that I disapprove of? And the only reason we have it is because the referees Falcons beat the Saints Thursday. WHO DAT!

In my troop they are an issue every year, but especially this year. It is so bad, that several Scouters with 3+ years with the troop, a long time for us, are fed up and want to quit. One told me 'Scouting is no longer fun" We have a adult meeting next week, and it's going to get interesting.

Sadly this is the case this go around. Kid talked to an ASM about the situation. I got involved because I help people go back to school at work. ASM thought I might be able to help.

Had anyone asked the Cubs what they wanted? I know all the Cubs, and a lot of the parents, were ticked off when this ban was announced. To my knowledge no one from national asked anyone about it before they banned it. Thankfully someone got wind of the proposed marshmallow ban before it went into affect. Maybe I'm old school, and think Scouting is for the youth. I think we need to listen to them and give them credit, especially at the Scout age and above.

Or the Tiger Cub with a plastic spork with a cutting edge who was suspended for having a "weapon" at school. Then again, someone at my work said I was "armed" because I had a P-40 can opener on my keyring.

I have had to touch Scouts and Explorers/Venturers for rappelling. Assisting someone to tie a Swiss seat, and/or verifying it is safe can be awkward, especially if a young lady is involved. Very glad to have other COPE staff around to assist and be in view.

True story from back in the day. When I worked for national supply, one of the things I did with new Cub Scouts was show them how to wear a neckerchief. I would roll it up, place it around their neck, put the slide on it, and do the old "slide to the nose" measurement for proper [placement of the slide. One day, I got called into the office. I was informed I was no longer allowed to put on neckerchiefs. A long time volunteer/ part time employee, who also worked at another national Scout shop, was doing the same thing I was doing. One mother accused the guy of inappropriate touching by putting on the neckerchief and slide. The guy lost his job as a result of the complaint, and was almost put into the Ineligible Volunteer Files as a result of the complaint. Thankfully the manager or assistant manager saw the incident, and saved him from being removed from Scouting altogether. This was a retired guy who worked part-time for some extra money. He was involved for over 50 years in the program, served in a variety or roles over the years, and was either a RT commissioner or district commissioner at the time.

True. And a good SM will listen to his Scouts. And as a former 21 year old OA Advisor, I can tell you the closer to the Scouts age, the more likely they will listen to the Scouts, and have a better idea of what the Scouts want than us old fogeys. Yes that is the problem here. Crazy thing is I had a conversation with one of the incoming parents. Like me he came from a "Hiking and Camping" Scout-led troop. He knew one of the original batch of challenging adults, the one who wished the Scouts would fail. Incoming parent noted the change in that Scouter regarding Patrol Method when he saw it working.

When I worked for national supply 1995-1997, they still had the t-shirt and sweatshirt and the awful cut out tiger paw iron-ons that came in a packet. They were in the process of switching to the whole paw instead of cut out paws. When I went back to work for national supply 2000-2002, The official Tiger Cub uniform was 1/2 blue and 1/2 orange. Orange t-shirts were still worn, and most only wore those anyway, but Tigers were suppose to wear the blue with orange top socks, Cub Scout shorts, and a Cub Scout belt with the Tiger buckle. They also switched from iron on paws, to a belt fob for beads and a place for the Tiger Cub Badge to be put on it. Yes, the original TC diamond was an embroidered sticker. As Cub, they could wear the belt fob with the Tiger Cub Badge on it still. I admit I was a bad employee. I suggested getting the pants and blue with yellow top socks and get the Cub Scout belt so they could wear it longer and save money. Sometime between 2002 when I left the profession all together, and 2009 when oldest was a Cub, Tigers were fully integrated into the packs. They wore the full blue uniform. Have you had a chance to look at the description of the programs on the July 2017 membership applications? Not only is the word "boy" replaced with "Youth" and "Children" for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts respectively, it also mentions Lions as the earliest Cub Scout program. Check it out here: https://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-406.pdf So Lions will be official next year. Just like girls in Scouting will be allowed next year. key parts: Joining Requirements Cub Scout Pack Pack membership is open to youth in kindergarten through fifth grade. *Lion—Year before first grade Boy Scout Troop Children can be Scouts if they have completed the fifth grade and are at least 10 years old, OR have earned the Arrow of Light Award and are at least 10 years old, OR are age 11 but have not reached age 18.

Tigers didn't wear a full blue uniform until early 2000s. They went from a T-shirt or sweatshirt only with the iron on decals from August 1982 to sometime after 1997, to blue with orange topped socks, blue pants/shorts, blue belt with Tiger Cub buckle, belt fob fort advancement, and t-shirt or sweat shirt, I think August 1998 or 1999 as I was selling that uniform in May 1999 through May 2001, to the blue with orange topped socks, blue pants/shorts, blue belt with Tiger Cub buckle, Tiger Cub Progess towards Rank shirt fob, blue shirt, orange necker, and orange hat. That is what all three sons wore as Tigers.

rue. I know I'm not going to get 100% of what I want for the troop, the Scouts left alone and in charge with real responsibilities and obligations and the adults sitting around drinking coffee and not doing a thing. One thing tI think I have over them is expereince. I've been dealing with Boy Scouts as a member, Scouter, and professional for 32 years now. I've been in 5 different council and involved with 5 different troops, six if you include one that I worked with indirectly as mentoring their SM. Plus I've had the opportunity to work with foreign Scouts, and see some differnt things from overseas that are good ideas. I not only have been to training, I've taught it. And just SM Specific and ITOLS, but also BA 22, JLTC and Retaining Older Scouts.. Most of these folks have no Boy Scout experience, and little to no Boy Scouter training. I am not asking that they automatically let me iresponsible for their kids. I know they need to develop trust. But I do wish they would listen to those of us with experience when they are causing problems. I am not the only one who has had these issues. While it may be important to them, it hasn't been shown except to interfere. While Webelos, they never camped with the troop despite at least 10 invitations over a 21 month period. The one time they did show up at a camp out, they ignored the directions they were give prior to the camp, ignored Scout in charge of working with them, didn't let the Scout do the work, and left that afternoon instead of camping. Only Webelos camping came from another pack, or from another den in their pack. And the one from another den was friends with one from another pack. His den was not interested at all in camping with the troop. Additionally some of the parents causing issues never attended either of the 2 meeting we had for them. Agree the Scouts are the ones who are in the middle and are being hurt as a result. Two issues with them coming to the meeting. First and foremost is that the SM scheduled this meeting when the Scouts are doing a tournament. Closest to a Scout I can get to attend is the 18 year old ASM. And I know his thoughts because I talked to him: "It's starting to seem like Cub Scouts." Second issue, and IMHO the more important one, is that there is a lack of trust and respect between some of the adults and the Scouts. I've talked to the Scouts about a lot of things over the years. They have had issues with all of the adults, myself included, with not allowing them to take charge. At least they know I listen to them, take them seriously, and advocate for them to the other adults. But it should be the SM defending them and advocating for them, and not an ASM. And adults keep haring on that the Scouts are not ready for the responsibility. My question is how can they ever be ready if they are never given the opportunity to take responsibility? Regarding PLC huddles, That is something I wish we were doing. As for the "Never thought it would work"comment, I heard that with this Troop after we initiated changes last year. Long story short, one Scouter very opposed to Scout-led told me "I hope they fail" so that the adults could take over again. Until this last batch of New Scouts and their parents showed up, he was amazed at how well things were going when we gave the Scouts responsibility. Sadly that advocate recently moved.

How to convince adults to stick with the Patrol Method. Specifically What are your arguments for patrol method? How would you go about convincing adults to let Scouts sign off on advancement? How would you go about convincing adults le tthe Scouts make their own decisions, and suffer the consequences? How do you convince adults that the Scouts really know who the best leaders are? How would you convince adults that having families camp with the troop is a bad idea? Anything else i'm missing.

With the exception of the olive green loops, and the entire remove green from the Boy Scout uniform insignia, but leave the red insignia for Webelos Cub Scouts and Cub Scout leaders who wear the tan uniform , I concur. There are a lot of different ways to say the same thing with the uniform. i'm even against the specialty loops for jamboree. that's why they got jambo insignia, belt buckles, etc for.

When I went through it, leaders DID NOT (emphasis) touch the Cubs except to pin the Bobcat badge on. Parents were the ones touching the Scouts and holding them. And this was something everyone knew about and was looking forward to. It was fun. In my years of seeing this done, approximately 15 years, NO ONE was upset by the practice. The Cubs were upset when the practice was cancelled. If I recall correctly, one family after the meeting did it in the parking lot with dad holding the Cub upside down, and older brother, either a Boy Scout or Webelos, doing the pinning. When several other families saw that, they got into it. Does anyone remember when the head Health and Safety guru stated that they were considering banning marshmallow toasting in Scouting because the H&S folks call if "campfire napalm" and a few kids have been burned by it. Only reason they didn't was because of the unanimous support for the practice. Sometimes I wonder if one person is against something, will the BSA ban it? One thing I noticed glancing over the discussion is that it appeared to be all new parents who were complaining. No one with a sense of tradition and understanding of why they were doing it was against it. As to "Physically manhandle a kid" I've seen some skits that have physical contact and 'manhadling" done at pack meetings. Heck, I had my Bears and seen Webelos doing some "manhandling" when teaching first aid skills at den meetings or day camp. One thing not required, but the Cubs had a blast doing it, was the stretcher carry. And not everything about today is good either. I lament the fact that Boy Scouts cannot do pioneering projects over 6 feet tall, use carts for service projects unless 14, have watergun fights in the middle of July at camp, etc.

When It was done to me, parents were part of it. My Mom and one of the other dads held me. There was no value, it was FUN ( EMPHASIS , ok shouting a little with joy at the memory. wish my sons could have done it). And I can second the kids were the most upset. I was doing ceremonies with the OA when the ban came about. Lots of Cubs were ticked off that they could not longer do it. Reading Mr. Ruth's letter, his explanation is as idiotic as the ban on Cub Scouts using carts on a service project ( but that can do pushmobiles) and the ban on waterguns.

Actually when BSA decided to remove the red loops, and replace them with a second shade of green loops, it did get confusing. It didn't help when distributors and council shops were giving out wrong information on loops, as well as other insignia that came out with the Centennial Uniform. And don't get me started with the wrong info I got from a NATIONAL SCOUT SHOP ( emphasis) I still see folks wearing the bright green Venturing loops instead of the dull green Boy Scout ones.

Yes, please stick to the topic. This topic is extremely important to me as I want my sons and their friends to have as good, if not better, Scouting experience than I had. My oldest picked the troop because he liked it. But I wanted him visit it after I found out the #1 choice for both of us went to Trails Life. The troop had some minor issues at the time, but it had so much potential. Things were going well until a new batch of Scouts/parents/Scouters came in and issues arose. Not only growing to fast to soon, but also different ideas on how the troop is suppose to be run. We eventually worked that out, but then this newest batch came in. Now it looks like it is starting all over again, except worse. At least some compromise was given to let the Scouts have some responsibility for teaching the new scouts, dealing with their own issues, etc. It now appears that the new parents,who are use to doing everything for their sons, are trying to take away all the work the Scouts have put in, and the current SM and potential new SM are all for it.

Houmas House Plantation in Darrow, LA ( between Baton Rouge and New Orleans) does tours. I do not know a lot about the current owners and how they do things, but the previous owners did their homework and the plantation was period appropriate except for one room. Instead of an entertainment room, it was a bedroom that a movie star used in a film. They left it that way.

Sad thing about Eagledad's comment about adults not understanding patrol method is he is right, despite the fact that the former SM is a WB trained Scouter, the current SM is an Eagle, and the potential new SM is an Eagle. You would think that folks with experience would know better. I do know that regarding Scouts signing off on advancement, the potential new SM Eagle had a bad experience and he is totally against it as a result. Apparently his older Scouts kept having him come back and demonstrate the skills before signing off. And that is one of the stated reasons why Scouts do not sign off on advancement with this troop. And as I mentioned in Helicopters thread, it appears that all S-T-2-1 skills instruction and camping will be done by/with adults. I also think part of the problem is everyone, adults and Scouts, are so use to the way things have been done, i.e. 2 PLCs a year, adults teaching, etc. I know I tried to get my SPL son to hold regular PLCs, but when he announced one and it kept getting pushed back by the SM or one ASM, he gave up trying. I know several older Scouts are basically marking time until they can earn eagle and get out. They are no longer having fun. Anyway, what are your arguments for patrol method? How would you go about convincing adults to let Scouts sign off on advancement? How would you go about convincing adults le tthe Scouts make their own decisions, and suffer the consequences? How do you convinvce adults that the Scouts really know who the best leaders are? How would you convince adults that having families camp with the troop is a bad idea? Anything else i'm missing. My objective for the meeting is to focus on patrol method and getting the adults out of the Scouts' hair. But I want to be prepared for anything else that may come up. Regarding the meeting, sadly the CC is only interested in BORs, and nothing else. Everything is on the SM and ASMs. As for the CO, new IH, new approach to Scouts. Old IH was heavily involved, especially since son was in the troop. New IH not only is not interesting in Scouting, he has turned down several requests by the pack and troop, but also does not view Scouting as an outreach ministry like the old IH. New IH has taken down information from the church's board about Scouts, and the monthly newsletter does not contain anything about Scouts anymore.

I'm going to quote the Second Doctor, aka "The Hobo," "HHHMMM, I see you changed things. I don't like it." The yellow and blue neckerchief with a wolf's head is the oldest of all Cub Scout neckers as it is the original one. I don't like breaking traditions. Bad enough they are the wrong size.

Sadly we have had Scouts point blank say "we got this" and were ignored. In one instance the Scouts left the adult to do their jobs. And in all honesty, I don't blame them We got a combination. Some do not know what they are doing, despite being 'trained" Some are too impatient, and jump in.And we got some that get frustrated and cannot back off. I admit there was one time That I got frustrated at the situation, that I jumped in when seeing the SPL get ticked off dealing with the situation. Thankfully when he calmed down, he got me to back off and took back over.