Eagle94-A1

Hopefully GSUSA, unlike the BSA, will listen to its members.

Current status. SPL has not followed through on his campaign promises when he ran. He's has not organized things, has not held a PLC since January when he attempted to run the Annual Planning Conference, which was taken over by the adults, and appears to have lost interest since when messaged, or called, he does not respond. Long story short ASPL, QM, and adults have taken over at times by assigning youth to teach.It is very frustrating and disappointing. Gunship wants to remove the SPL, who only has a few weeks left in his term. Here is where it is getting interesting. Gunship and a few others are now saying the BSA way doesn't work. Gunship wants to use the model he grew up with, i.e. adult led. Tried to tell him we are NOT following the BSA model the way it should be done. When I mention that we are not doing monthly or even bi-monthly, PLCs so the folks know what is going on and can prepare for things, he says the Scouts don't need them. SPL tells them what to do, and they do it. No need for "committees." When I reminded him that when the SPL attempted to hold the annual planning conference on a different day of the week so that more than 45-60 minutes before a meeting could be spent making the calendar, Gunship and others complained about having to meet on another night, and that it should only take an hour to plan the calendar. Don't know about you guys, but I have never been to an APC that took shorter than 2 hours. And several have been all day affairs. Currently we still are missing 2 months of activities. Lots of back and forth on messenger amongst the core adults. finally getting a Scouters' Meeting. Hopefully matter will get resolved.

Considering how anal retentive National is about branding, I bet you a Death by Chocolate Dutch oven cake the next time you are in NC that this has been coordinated with national. I see this happening everywhere.

If I could upvote you 100 times, I would. We have 2 packs feeding us. Over the past few years, from one pack, everyone is staying. (10 for 10) But the other, has a 50% attrition. Out of 9 scouts who crossed over 12 months ago, 5 remain, and several of us are concerned we are going to lose 2 of the 5 still. And of the 3 who crossed over 3 months ago, 1 remains. I bet it would be lower if I could remember all the folks we lost from the other pack. And the difference is how the awards are earned. One pack makes them work for it, the other doesn't.

1) As others have commented, your pack is doing it wrong, way wrong, and it is hurting the boys. They know they have not earned their ranks. Their parents know they have not earned their ranks, and when they become Boy Scouts and must master the skills to advance, they and their parents will have an extremely hard time adjusting. I predict 1/2 of those crossing over will quit within a year. Why I say that? There is a pack locally that is lax with their advancement policies, and that is happening. The pack's Webelos are not prepared for Boy Scouts, and the parents are constantly hovering trying to get their kids advancement they have not earned. All because of the precedent set by the Cub Scout pack and their lax policies. And they are not as lax as your packs either.3 2) What are you teaching your Cub Scouts if you allow short cuts? How can they be proud of wearing rank they have not truly earned? 3) Why can't folks just follow policy?

I would look at the topic Shug Emery has done on his channel. Just remember there are somethings he does you should not, i.e. riding a unicycle with a lit stove. https://www.youtube.com/user/shugemery

That standard was in a powerpoint for early adopters. At the Cub level 2 adults over 21, one of whom must be a registered Scouter, can work with all boy dens, BUT one registered female over 21 MUST be in attendance at all functions of an all girls' den. Gotta love the double standard.

One troop I know plans on getting around the female scouter on camp outs with "family camping with their dad and/or brother." While they have not thought about meetings yet, bet they use "patrol meetings" to get around the meeting issue. One thing that hit me, will patrol day activities that currently do not require an adult now require one?

I'm sorry, I am taking things to personally of late..I admit the past 2 weeks have been stressful at work. I was hoping to have a relaxing weekend camping to bleed off the stress.That didn't happen and several things happened that made the stress worse. Again I apologize.

Since I believe below is addressed to me, I will give my responses. But my first question is this: Are you familiar with OA election procedures? In order to be on the ballot, a Scout must be First Class or higher, have 20 days and nites of camping, including one long term camp in the past 2 years, and must have the SM's approval. A SM can withhold approval for any reason he wants. BUT once the SM approves the names on a ballot, they are eligible to be elected. Then it is in the hands of the youth in a troop. And if the unacceptable Scout is elected, there is nothing the SM can do because he had already approved the name for election. How is it the OA Adviser and team's fault if the SM, upon being told the election results, starts making a scene? How is it the adviser's fault if the SM refuses to go to an area out of hearing of the youth of his troop to calmly discuss the matter? How is it the fault of the advisor if the SM continues to be confrontational after the the decision of the OA team to leave. How is it the Advisor's fault that the SM is screaming and cursing at him and the election team as they are in the parking lot leaving? I know not every situation is the same, but making a blanket "clear indication that the OA advisor messed up...." is not right. Sometimes the SM is at fault in these matters. Agree an OA election is not worth fighting over. That's why when I realized the SM would not listen to reason and continued to yell and curse, I ended the discussion and told the team to pack it up. But how did I as an advisor "mess up" when SM follows us into the parking lot yelling and cursing at us as we leave? Correct, OA had no need to stay. The election was completed, and as a courtesy the SM was informed. So again, How did I mess up when the SM started yelling and cursing at me and the youth, following us to the parking lot as we left. Agree. It would have been condescending, arrogant, and prideful if I tried to argue with the SM. But would you call it condescending, prideful, and arroganrt when the SM follows us out and yells, "you don't know [anything] about the OA," when I've been active with the OA for several years and was the Chapter Adviser?

That is why any issues, concerns, or problems a SM has with the Elections Team and/or Advisor need to be dealt with privately and calmly. I know I have had a few of those over the years. But when a SM starts yelling and berating the youth election team members, that is when an advisor needs to step in. And if a SM continues to make a public spectacle by yelling and berating the youth and the advisor who is trying to calmly and privately discuss the issue, then it is time for the OA election team to calmly leave like I did.

I guess this would be anecdotal, but here it goes. One of my Scouts had "delayed entry" into the air force. He could not get his EBOR in before basic training, and he turned 18 during training. Long story short, he comes back from basic, gets a BOR scheduled, and the night of the BOR, the district rep discovers that he missed the no questions asked deadline by 2 days, and he needed to appeal to national. They had a nice "chat" with him, wished him well on his appeal, and stated they will be more than willing to do an EBOR for him. He got Eagle, but by the time everything was approved and done, he left for active duty. Never did have his ECOH.

I had an SM try to intimidate my Arrowmen into taking off a name of a Scout he didn't think was worthy AFTER he approved it. It got very heated when I intervened. This happened to be the same SM w whom I found out rigged the election previously by telling the Scouts who to vote for so all three eligible could get in (back when there was limits on who could be on the ballot),

This is what causes problems: folks ignoring the procedures and doing their own thing. OA Election Team Should NEVER have added a Scout's name to the elected sheet simply because the SM recommends them. That is not how it is done. From personal experience, I know youth on an election team can get intimidated at times by adults. So my question is, where was the adult adviser to intervene on behalf of the election team?

IMHO, I an guessing someone at the troop/council royally screwed up, and the only way to resolve the situation was to get the national team to intervene.

Also I want to apologize to @Scoutmaster Teddy for being over defensive regarding college students. I remember the disrespect I got from some Scouters, some with less experience in the movement than I had at the time, all due to my age. Add to that what has been going on with my troop, i.e. "The Scouts aren't ready to lead," and it I get overly sensitive. .

Update from national https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/blog/bsa-clears-misconceptions-path-eagle-scout-rank-utah-scout-down-syndrome/

With all due respect, if you have a problem with 18 year old college students who are qualified to teach Eagle required MBs, then you may have a problem with operations in your unit. I was one of those "Over 18 and in college" MBCs who taught several Eagle required MBs, specifically Camping, First Aid, Swimming, and Lifesaving, in addition to several other MBs. As an 18 year old certified YMCA lifeguard instructor who had completed two 50 milers afloat , I felt more than qualified teaching the aquatic MBs. I admit not every camp has good staff, but that is more on the CD and PD than age generalization.

Somewhere I read he was a registered Cub Scout still, which would mean the Boy Scout advancement is null and void. And there is a way for SCOUTNET to allow someone over 11 to remain in Cub Scouts. Do not know the specifics except I had two packs with 17 and 19 year old Cub Scouts. Developmentally they were 2nd or 3rd graders.

I think someone at the local council, whether the pack and/or troop, or the council screwed up. It appears that the Scout has been registered as a Cub Scout all this time, and as a result ineligible for Boy Scout awards. I wonder why the council has not caught the problem earlier. Realistically he can stay a Boy Scout past his 18th birthday with the required paperwork. As stated previously, I've seen a 44 year old BOY (emphasis) Scout who not only had Down's Syndrome, but also legally blind earn his Eagle. Gut feeling: National and Local Council will review the situation to find out what went wrong. Depending upon what happened, I bet the boy will be retroactively made a Boy Scout, retroactively earned the awards he has earned, and will get the project approved, and eventually earn Eagle. From what I know of national, they A) do not allow adults' mistakes to affect youth (whether for good or bad is another question), and B) When the word "lawsuit" happens, they cave.

@Hawkwin, You do have a female ADL working with you? According to the info put out by national, a girls' den needs one registered, YPT female over 21 in addition to a second person.

This has been a topic of conversation on Facebook. There is a lot of confusion due to the terminology used by the dad in some previousreports. A lot of information is being left out of this and the previous articles IMHO. BSA has a program where Special Needs Scouts can advance. There are procedures in place that need to be followed. I knew a 44 year blind special needs SCOUT ( emphasis) who earned Eagle. Mentally he was about 13 or 14.

Besides Eagle1993, are there any other Early Adopters out there? The Pack and Troop Scouters will be meeting with our CO regarding Family Scouting, and they want to know "the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly." And if challenges have arisen, what have been the solutions. @Eagle1993, thanks for all the posts and please keep them coming. It is helping a lot.

Agree about online. Missing out on the paraverbal and nonverbal, that gives context to what we are saying. Best example I can give is how the tone, speed, and volume, as well as our body language of a sales clerk can tel you if they really want to help, or going through the motions. And yes that is everyone's concern I've talked to now save one. Had a chance to talk to our SM who was gung ho about girls joining because he has a daughter who is pumped up. And he now has some reservations about how the change.