Eagle94-A1

Actually according to some national level volunteers, the "separate but equal" Girls' Program troops is being reconsidered. The PTB are now looking into coed troops with segregated patrols. That is what is being reported on Talk About Scouting facebook group.

Yes I know. I spent 20-30 minutes trying to talk the MC out of it. MC did it anyway. West Fellowship Knot has been around approximately 25 years. I was told by a pro that the reason it was created was to thank high level donors to the endowment with a recognition that doesn't take away from other recognitions, i.e. the Silver Beaver. It was also promoted as a way for groups of folks to recognize long time Scouters. I know for a fact that one Eagle class in my council does not know they are James E. West Fellows.

Some messages on the Talk About Scouting Facebook page have mentioned that the "separate but equal" girls program with their own units is now under consideration. Troops may go coed with segregated patrols. And that is being stated by some national level volunteers.

I've seen it all regarding the West Fellowship. I've seen one guy buy 4 fellowships: his wife, daughter, son, and himself. Weird seeing a Cub Scout with that one. I was on the receiving end of anger when one donor was recognized as a West Fellow. He did NOT want it advertised and he started of ticked off at me AND it showed. Thankfully his buddy, who was also MCing the event told him not to get angry at me 'cause I told the MC not to do it, and he did it anyway. I've seen 3 respected leaders wearing it. 2 of them I had the honor of helping their troops and/or former Scouts get together the funds for it, and saw the surprise on their faces when they were recognized. One told me how one of his former Scouts surprised him by sending him the certificate and knot in the mail with a thank you note for all he did. And I saw an entire Eagle class get it because a Scout Exec wanted tobe #1 in West Fellowships in the region. So he talked to the estate into giving each Eagle, and a few others the fellowship. Bet none of them really knew what they were getting.

I don't think he was telling me what I wanted to hear when I talked to him in the past because when we had a meeting like this twice before, he said he wanted less interference from adults, and wanted to be allowed to make mistakes. And after the last PLC, he made some comments about adults taking over again. In the past 6 months, this Scout has essentially become disengaged, and is only in Scouts to get Eagle. Which is sad because when my son visited the troop 5 years ago, this Scout was SPL, and was the reason why my son joined the troop. The money raised at the last two fundraisers were designated for new equipment. In essence everyone agreed to it: scouts and adults. Scouts did the research into the new stoves. While I admit the stove they picked was not the one we got, it was very similar. Stove we got was a heavy duty version of the one they picked, and was on sale for $10 more than the one they picked. Originally the Scouts did not put the one we got on the selection list due to the cost. Scouts were surprised and happy to get the one we did. As for the tents and other gear, the SM and ASM approved the purchase, with the rest of us finding out after the fact. I was in the minority. I thought the Scouts should have been involved. The majority of adults in the troop were all for the purchase. IMHO, this is a result of history of hands off committee and CO, with the previous SM running the whole show. Heck even a long time MC commented the late SM was a micromanager.

Troop money was spent, it wasn't a gift. The tents the troop were gifted when they started back up were not taken care of properly and some were deliberately vandalized by previous Scouts in the troop. As for SM talking to the Scouts, that was after everything was purchased and delivered.

SM was complicit. Funny thing is that this weekend he took all the older Scouts and had a chat with them with the ASMs present. The oldest Scout present had to be forced to talk, and even then he didn't say much. That was Gunship's son. Next oldest Scout said they needed help to learn how to lead. Gut feeling is that he doesn't feel that way, he's expressed otherwise to me in the past, and just said what he thought the adults wanted to hear. The three 14-15 year old Scouts said their mind, talked about issues, and one commented specifically he doesn't want the adults in the meetings telling them what to do and taking over. Of course the verdict is that the Scout need help and the adults are correct in intervening. But here is the thing, there are NO PLC meetings. In the past 2 years, I can count on one hand how many occurred. The Scouts are not being counseled on the side, instead they are being interupted and adults taking over. There is so much stuff not being done, and when things are attempted there is resistance from the adults on it. Yet now the adults want lesson plans, Scouts teaching adults prior to meetings, etc.

Update. Not only were the tents purchased without any Scout input, but a bunch of other supplies as well. Long story short, troop spent over $2500 on tents, tables, and cooking utensils (not pots and pans but spatulas, tongs, etc). Now the adults are looking into buying lanterns, potsa and pans, etc. for the Scouts. As the ASM who is leading this charge told me I need to butt out of this, so I am. Especially since everything I say is being ignored. I had a chat with the SPL about how he needs to better plan AND let the adults know what is going on. He was blindsided by the tents and the fact that the adults took over his meeting plans: the had the ASM's son go over the new gear. My two sons were ticked off. Not only were the Scouts not consulted about the purchase, but the tent pegs were collected from the tents, and they need to continue using the 10 penny nails from the troop supply. Oldest is going to suggest to his patrol that they buy their own tent pegs for their tents, and not have to rely on the troop. I think youngest plans on using his hammock's pegs when he needs to stay in a tent. Anyway, they started getting very negative, which I can understand. But as the wife told me when i talked to her about all this stuff, I need to look at whom I am responsible for (my sons), and focus on what I can do to help them. So I told them they have 3 choices: transfer to another troop, run for office and try and change things from the inside, or just let it slide off their backs, do what they know they need to do and not worry about anyone else. Oldest told me he doesn't ever plan to run for SPL ever again because it is a waste of time; adults do what they want anyway. Thankfully he has POR time for Eagle now, and he will continue to do appointed PORs.

The West Fellowship knot was created so that big donors who do nothing else would get recognized with something instead of the Silver Beaver. Yes, some council would give those away a long time ago.

I worked in national supply when skirts and skorts were available for female Scouters and professionals. Saw skirts and skorts worn only by my manager and assistant manager. Event then, it was once or twice in the 4 years I worked for them . They were never popular, and I imagine the capris will not be popular either. One unit planning on accepting girls when the time comes has stated the skirts, skorts, and capris will nto be allowed.

Regarding my neck of the woods, the PTB want us to budget 10% "miscellaneous" for any last minute unexpected stuff. Whatever is not used goes to the council coffers. In my experience with CSDC and camporees, something ALWAYS comes up last minute that the 10% misc helps. One year at day camp supplies were "diverted" to the main summer camp. Didn't realize this until after day camp was over. But off I went to get supplies at the local Hobby Lobby. At camporee this year, I had to buy of unexpected supplies since the DE double booked the camp with a Cub Scout event. Yep, the flagging, signs, and stakes to keep Cubs out of Scouting areas, and vice versa, ate up a lot of that line item. But I was also on the other end, going in the red. My day camp was anticipated to go into the red $600 based upon the previous 3 years expenditures the first year I was PD. I pinched so many pennies, that we were in the red less than $10. next year, we had a profit of a whopping $17 and change.

In college I had a friend accused of sexual misconduct. While proven innocent, his reputation suffered greatly as he did have a stigma due to the accusation. In Scouting, another friend was accused. Again investigation proved her innocence. But she was not allowed to be reinstated in the BSA. Anyone remember the Duke lacross team. That hit close to home as I live in NC. Anyone remember "Mattress Girl" Emma Sulcowicz?

The small local camp in my district does indeed have units that sponsor the campsites. Long story short, there was a time when the council invested as little as possible into the camp. Only way the camp survived was troops, posts, and crews taking responsibility for a campsite. Local OA chapter has, and continues, to invest a lot of time and money into the camp. What got the council back interested is that it is the only council camp that Cub Scouts can do boating activities on. Another council camp, the one where camporees are held, also has troops taking care of sites. In fact troops are responsible for any and all improvements: waterlines, latrines, shelters, etc. One reason why troops refuse to move from campsites is because they have invested time and money into them.

That is so 2000, Seriously BSA did, don't know if it is still around, have Scout Soccer from 2000 onwards. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/511-035_wb.pdf

We have a long time Scouter in the same situation. Due to injuries, and also arthritis as a result of the injuries, He does the best he can with the right hand. He can bend the thumb, but not the pinky. After my accident and surgery, my right arm was either in a sling or immobilizer, and I could not move the arm at all. For three months, I had to use the left hand. Once out of the immobilizer, I had a hard time making the sign with the right hand, and did my best. Thankfully rehab was my friend, despite the "Pain and Torture."

I know when I became a Scouter, it was a VERY hard transition. First summer camp after turning 18 proved it. I was the ASM in charge since the SM and none of the other ASMs could be there the entire week. To put it mildly, I turned into a dictator. When the SM showed up for his 1/2 week, we had a long conversation about how I screwed up. That's when the mentoring started. In all honesty it has never stopped. I still come here to get advice.

Regarding training, I don't know. He is wearing a Trained patch though. He was an ASM back in the late 90s, early 80s when he was an 18-20 y.o. But I also know he regards training as pretty useless if you are an Eagle, which he is. Regarding failure, you are right. When I commented about the Scouts know what to do and we need to let them, he viewed the lack of blue ribbons from camporee as proof that they don't know what to do. Irony of the situation, and I know because I did hte past 2 district camporees, is that when we moved from aged based patrols to traditional patrols, and started letting the Scouts do things on their own and fail if need be, their camporee performance was a lot better this year than last year.

I think @Thunderbird meant it's pointless to have the PLC do research and select a tent AFTER the tents have already been ordered by the adults. Yes, I'm channeling both the previous and current SPLs. I am so tired of all this drama. I really thought this was over with 18-24 months ago between Gunship and I. But apparently it was under the radar with batch of helicopters we got, and the illness and death of our former SM.

Pretty much.

I agree. What's sad is that he doesn't see any problems with adults jumping in. In fact he said I should butt out and not work with the to do things on their own.

That is correct.

Wow, it's getting really interesting. Apparently tents have been ordered and the Scouts had no input in the decision. BUT the SM will tell the SPL and PLC to do research new tents, limiting them to two companies to look at. And yes, it's Gunship doing all this.

While adults can hammock, Scouts cannot. Don't ask as I am against the policy. As for your own tents, that is allowed. It's interesting to note that those who bring their own, usually have hte most rules for those who sleep in the tent with them. Sadly we are in the middle of nowhere, and it would take an hour in either direction to get to a decent outfitter. The thing is, the Scouts do know what to look for in a tent. Especially the older ones who have their own tents, which are usually better quality than the Scout ones. And because they bought them, they take better care of them.

Really frustrating chat with one of the ASMs. He wants to go out an buy a bunch of tents without any input from the Scouts. He says that the Scouts don't have any idea what to look for, including those who have been in the troop a while and/or having camping MB. They will only pick "what looks cool." Futher he commented on how if they are asked to do something, they will do a poor job of doing the research, and it will take 6 months to get the stuff ordered. This is based upon one Scout's research into stoves, and after 6 months we are now getting them. I could not reply as I had to get back to work. But A) the Scout was limited to one company's models and he came up with 2 for the troop to pick, and B) the reason I was told we waited for the stoves is because the SM wanted a troop debit card, and with the death of the primary on the checking account, everything is on hold until things get cleared. The ASM bought the stoves on his CC and got reinbursed, which is how things had been done in the past. But just the lack of faith in the Scouts is disturbing. I admit the Scouts are not doing things like my peers back in the day did. But we also didn't have adults jumping in and taking over when things are not going the way the adults expect them.

Then why doesn't Sea Scout and Venturing YPT allow for 2 females if a ship or crew is coed?