Eagle94-A1

{sarcasm on} GEEE i didn't see that coming. {sarcasm off} If you look at the current membership apps that were created in July 2017, Lions is an official program. And Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts is gender neutral.

I think that is the major problem. Webelos IS suppose to be the transition period between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. They are suppose to be treated as Boy Scouts but still under the direction of an adult Den Leader, and if lucky a Den Chief. My den growing up and my two older sons dens were just like that, and making the transition was/is smooth. Youngest son's den is also like that. I think this is where many WDLs screw up. They keep treating the Webelos as full blown Cub Scouts, and not in transition. They are not upping the expectations, and are still in "Do Your Best" mode. Had a nice chat with the SM and a few other adults about the differences between the Webelos we are getting from one pack, and the Webelos from another pack. Told them that any Webelos with Arrow Of Light should be able to automatically earn their Scout Rank the night they cross over since Scout Rank and the Scouting Adventure Activity badge is 99.99999% identical. Even made a bet on it with the SM. Which reminds me, I need to remind the SM to make me a "Death by Chocolate" cake on the next camp out that he owes me. Because the feeder pack's Webelos dens are not fully transitioning, I am considering going back to WDL once youngest crosses over in December. Out of 9 who crossed over in April, 4 remain, and 2 don't seem to be interested in the program. And out of the 3 we got in December, only 1 has been to any meetings or camp outs.

Jealous. Gambinos is awesome. I lived 1/2 from their Metairie bakery. Two of my cousins worked at their Gentilly bakery. My cousins stole their recipes and made goodies for Christmas.

Out of curiousity, which bakery and how much was the shipping? Or did you go local? I ask because I could not find a decent king cake locally, and the bakeries back home I inquired about charged an arm and a leg for shipping. Wife had pity on my soul and started making them for me. As for food, I love the traditional New Orleans Mardi Gras meal: Popeyes Famous Fried Chicken with cole slaw.

The entire First Class, First Year premise looks only at one factor and membership retention: advancement. And IMHO since it came out when NSPs came out, it is based upon how LDS units do things, i.e. 11 year olds are a separate group. Every unit that is “successful” with NSPs has to treat them like Cub Scouts, not Boy Scouts. Of course they will advance fast, but do they truly learn? With traditional patrols, advancement is slower, but they learn, truly learn.

I so wish I had more parents with this attitude. Monday night we had one mom post on FB that her son needed someone to sign off on some Second Class requirements. This is the same Scout who refuses sleep away from daddy. While he was working on requirements, Mom was lamenting the fact that he's been in the troop 10 months as is still only Tenderfoot (don't ask) and that he needs to be First Class by April. I had to talk to her about it is more important that he knows the skills and that a First Class Scout is not only capable of camping on his own, but is suppose to help others. Sadly I don't think she gets it. Then again, maybe I am being a hypocrite. I've reminded middle son that he needs to get First Class by end of May so he can go on the AT trip he's been wanting to do since last summer. It's all on him.

While I admit my dealing with Venturing are very limited, I do know that I can count on one hand the number of years my council had an "active" VOA. As far as the OA, I've had a lot more interactions. As a youth officer and 21-23 year old chapter advisor, I was pretty much ignored. I had to get one of my friends to pass off my ideas as his to get them even considered. I had one chapter chief so ticked off at the condecesion of one district committee meeting, he vowed never to attend again. And to this day, his successors have not attended anymore ( approx 7 years now). Talking to the current lodge chief, i discovered that after one incident, which I witnessed years ago, the lodge chiefs have not been attending the council executive board meetings because their voices are ignored. This lodge chief has already commented that he WILL be attending these meetings, and he will represent the voice of the youth in the council whether the adults like it or not. As for the incident that caused the LCs to stop attending, let's just say that the overwhelming opinion of the youth was not to do something. I want to say something like 90% of the youth did not want something to be done. The Lodge Advisor was furious at the results, and overrode the vote by saying "I don't care what you want, this is how it is going to be." When youth and adults started protesting by wearing their sashes inside out, he yelled " wear them properly or don't wear them at all." over half the people in attendance no longer wore their sashes. So forgive me if I do not think that youth have an actual voice that is listend to at the national level.

Family camping was the "camel's nose in the tent" that led to coed Cub Scouts. And according to BSA's documents, family camping is allowed for Boy Scouts, Sea Scouts, and Venturers. And we already face folks pushing "family camping" on the boy scout level.

Read the current youth application that came out in July 2017. Boy Scout membership states "children...."

page 22 of the Guide to Safe Scouting has this to say about family camping. And since 'OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING," I think this will apply to 'Family Scouting" Family Camping Family camping is an outdoor experience, other than resident camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing program elements in overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their children, and Youth Protection policies apply. (emphasis added)

THAT is the problem. Most Scouters get what 30 minutes or thereabouts on the topic. As you stated, IT IS NOT ENOUGH TIME (emphasis). Then you got the folks, even those who SHOULD know better, that do not believe in the Patrol Method, or do not have the patience to do it right. Heck Bryan on his blog even did an article on it, and said it's OK for adults to intervene in areas when health and safety ARE NOT a concern. These adults think they are helping hte Scouts, wen in effect they are hurting htem.

Yes, it is already happening. My sons and many of their friends are not happy with the parents and siblings starting to camp with the troop now.

But that is CUB Scout, bot BOY Scouts. (caps for emphasis). Most 11-18 year old males want to get away from their parents and younger siblings. They want to do things on their own. The families going camping is one reason why my sons and several others are not happy with the troop. They had problems with siblings, as well as adults. An example form this weekend, PL is doing his assigned job at a fundraiser, and one of the parents tells him to stop what he is doing and get back to work. Thankfully I was there and told him to ignore the parent and SPL's instructions. Agree 110% Even WB doesn't fully model the Patrol Method. And even when you do have adults who know PM and teach it at training, you still have large numbers of adults who think they know best, or do not have the patience to implement it. The Patrol Method is truly 'Organized Chaos" Another factor that women have is the natural "mother instinct" They want to nurture and protect they children. Many cannot let go. We see it today with 26 year olds being considered children under some federal laws. I do not know when the Guide to Safe Scouting first came out, But I can tell you many things I use to do as a Scout are not allowed anymore, and it has been since women were allowed to be SMs and ASMs, i.e. pioneering projects over 6 feet, smudge pots, etc.

That's just it, did youth have any say in the new policy? In my neck of the woods, the ones I talk to are against it. Don't know how many youth took the heavily biased for girls survey. Also do not know what the results of the membership survey was, but considering that those results have not been published by BSA, I do not believe the majority of those polled were in favor.

Not the Rat, but a local amusement/waterpark. When I was up in Canada, the last full day we had a choice of waterpark or amusement park. Most of us stuck with the waterpark because we were still recuperating from a week of canoeing, and of course the girls Most popular place was the huge heated pool. After a week dealing with glacier fed lakes, and me getting hypothermia, it was awesome to have hot water. It was included in the trip fee. Local troop on the way back from FL Seabase, did a day at the Rat.

All three of my boys think this is a major mistake. Youngest commented on what happened when one boys only group merged with the girls only group: it got boring and the combined group stopped meeting. Wife, who was a Venturing leader, has mixed emotions. Glad girls will have the same opportunities, but also sees how this will hurt the boys in the long term. There is no place for boys to be boys anymore. My troop will be coed no matter what national says. SM, ASM, and several MCs have daughters who have dropped out and/or are bored with GSUSA. One daughter is only in GSUSA to get Gold Award, and dad cannot wait for her to get Eagle as well. Plus as many know, my troop is "family friendly" allowing families, including Cub age sons, to attend any and all camp outs. I don't know what my sons will do. Oldest is Life and has stated he wants to stay with the troop and try and change it from the inside. I honestly do not know if that is possible anymore. The adults have taken over, and are only giving lip service to Scout run. Best examples include the recent tent and gear purchases, and now the troop's fundraising schedule. Everything is already planned for the next 3 months, but the adults are meeting with the Scouts tonight to get ideas for fundraising. He's not happy about it. He thinks adding girls will cause the troop to become even more adult led. Middle son had the opportunity to see how a "youth run" troop works at an Eagle COH this weekend. I use "...." because the Eagle had his friends do the various parts of the ceremony. Several were in the 18-21 year old range. He's getting frustrated with the troop after a year being in it. He's tired of the Scouts not doing what they are suppose to do, the adults taking over, as well as folks advancing who really shouldn't be. Yes, we have 2 Scouts whose parents are pushing them, and are "sea lawyering' to get requirements signed off. He knows other troops are out there. In addition to more adults being involved, his concern is that the girls will cause the troop to have even fewer adventurous camp outs. He is not happy that all of te camp outs at the moment, except summer camp and the AT, are places we have been before and within an hour of out meeting location.

At the moment we have 3 patrols and whomever shows up, shows up. Patrols have approx 8 each. But we have our issues. Someone here suggested 12 man patrols, so that if only 50% show up, it's enough to function. Might be something to look at.

Agreed. As much as I personally believe that accepting girls in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts is the worst mistake BSA ever made, their roll out and implementation of this decision is BSA's #3 mistake of all time, right behind #2's Improve Scouting Program fiasco of the 1970s. Don't know about other areas, but in my district, only 1 CO is looking to go coed. Two packs and troops will be approaching their COs about the topic. All the rest of the units and/or COs are against this membership change. One troop told me that if they are forced to accept girls, the CO will drop Scouting as an outreach ministry in a heartbeat. I mention this because I do not believe BSA actually listened to folk in the field before making this decision. Otherwise they would not be doing it. But since they are doing it, they need to do it right.And their separate but equal program will not work. They need full integration to do it right.

Don't go there. I already had one supply employee tell me that the cheap pants that are current issue do not have a lifetime guarantee anymore. Had to get a manager involved in that. And the second pair was just as bad. had to use ebay and get some "expereinced" shorts from the 1990s.

From a high level national volunteer on facebook, BSA is now reconsidering a separate all girls program, and is now looking at separate girls patrols in existing troops. To quote Yoda, "Always in motion, the future is." IMHO, National had clue what they were doing. They probably discussed this with academics, and a few affluent volunteers who have been away from the field so long, that they are clueless as to the realities of the program. They do not know the challenges that some of us face. And since they are not releasing data from the surveys, I bet that they didn't even listen to the the surveys. Heck they way they did them, i.e. out of the blue with a 15-20 day window to do them, AS WELL AS the fact that the current applications, with a print code of July 2017 are gender neutral, this decision has been made for some time.

@NJCubScouter beat me to it. BUT as someone from national told me in a PM on facebook when I kept stating a program needs to be up and running no later than January 1 2019, the girls, and boys for that matter, can stay in Cub Scouts and continue working on Adventure Badges until the girls program is created. Can you hear the negative PR when boys start crossing over in the December 2018 to March 2019 time frame, and the girls cannot because a program has not been implemented yet?

I can tell you for a fact that the 1999 figures were inflated. Does Ronnie Holmes and Greater Alabama Council ring a bell? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45573-2005Jan28.html Sadly, he was not the only one inflating membership. One of the reasons I quit being a DE was being pressured to inflate membership. The pressure was intense, and affecting my health and life. It got so bad, it was affecting the wife, who gave me the ultimatum: her or the job. Interesting thing was that once I left, several units I allowed to drop were recharted. Thank goodness I have kept a copy of ALL the paperwork I submitted, and didn't submit. That saved my job when I worked for national because my old boss tried to blame me for the membership issues. The records showed I gave him the dropped units.

Sadly my first district was like that. No knots or beads, you were ignored. Fortunately a friend with knots and beads was on the committee, and would repeat my ideas a little later and they were brilliant. We both got a laugh about that. In my neck of the woods, over the past 20 years we have declined. partially due to the "In School Scouting units." But once that mess was cleaned up, we have continued to decline. Of the traditional that were around when quit being a DE: all 4 of the units I started no longer exist, (2 packs and 2 troops) 4 additional packs folded 2 troops folded 2 packs switched COs (1 prior to DALE, the other after the membership policy changed) 1 troop switched COs (troop affiliated with a pack above) As for district committee, it is a joke. Last comm. meeting was 2 people: me and the DE. We don't really have anyone else. We lost a loty of support with the membership policy change. And no one is stepping up to the plate. To make matter worse, we share a DE with another district. I already tendered my resignation on the committee: may 3rd,

They changed BALOO a few months back. Part of it is online now, and that has to be completed BEFORE the actual class/outdoor experience. We were suppose to have a class last year, and that was postponed because the changes came out 2 weeks before the class.

Interesting conversation last nite with oldest. He was planning to ask the SPL for 5 minutes of time to discuss the matter of the troop doing fundraising, but the Scouts having no input as to purchases. I reminded him that the fundraising committee also asked for some time to get ideas for other fundraisers, and suggested he bring the matter up to them. He's going with that. Thankfully he's been involved in debate and mock trial. So he can think on his feet. I posed some questions the adults might pull on him, and he countered every single one.