Eagle94-A1

CLARIFICATION: Scout with medical condition hates having to camp with dad. He knows he misses out not only when he cannot camp because dad is unable to go with him, but missing out in general because he is not with his patrols mates.... ... On second thought he is friends with my middle son and they are in the same patrol. It may be a good thing they don't tent together, otherwise they would never shut up and go to sleep.

110% True. You are not helping the Scout. We have a case where one Scout does NOT want to leave daddy's side. He may be technically meeting the requirements, but he is not mastering the requirements as was the expectation in the BSHB and G2A until recently. What's ironic is that we do have one Scout who MUST sleep with his dad for medical reasons and he "HATE EVERY MINUTE OF IT!" (his quote).

AMEN!

Why am I not surprised that 1 BSA publication contradicts another BSA publication.

Interesting question. According to this, https://oa-bsa.org/article/ask-chairman-oa-assistant-scoutmaster-patch he would be OK to be an OA ASM.

I think performance of the WDL has more of an input on how the new scouts will act. We had two dens of Webelos from two different troops, using essentially the same set of requirements. And we have two completely different outlooks with the groups. The June 2015 to December 2016 requirements were the ones my middle son used to get Webelos and AOL. They had no problems earning the ranks as intended and 14 months after crossing over, they are all still in Boy Scouts, whether my troop or another troop. It took their 2 WDLs more time to plan things, and a lot more coordination needed with other dens in the pack, but they did it. As I stated in other threads, they allowed the Webelos more freedom to do things on their own. Best example I can give is building a catapult for a competition. With the exception of using the power tools to cut and drill holes into the lumber, the Webelos did it all themselves. They designed it, built it, painted it, etc, When they entered the competition, they assembled it, carried it, and fired it. The other den had a bunch of helicopter parents who did the work for their Webelos. They did things for them, would not let them try things on their own, and would not let them fail. They "sea lawyered" some of the June 2015 - December 2016 requirements, and had a field day when the December 2016 to current requirements came out because then all of them could advance. Two examples of not letting their kids fail come to mind. In the catapult competition above, adults were the ones that did all the work on the catapult. They built it, painted it and tested it. I remember one of the parents showing it off at their meeting. All the Webelos did was disassemble it and put it pack together again so that pictures could be taken of them building it. When the competition began, the entire Webelos den could not carry it from the set up area to the firing range. The adults had to help them as it was too heavy. The second incident ticked me off as the WDL and the SM worked it out that one of the Boy Scouts would teach CASTAWAY so that they could camp with us on our wilderness survival weekend. It was also coordinated with another pack's WDL, the first den above, so that everyone would meet at their meeting place in one place and work together. Instead of following the plan, the parents ignored the Boy Scout, was rude to the other den, and did their own thing. It was so bad, that the other den invited the Boy Scout to their meeting place to do the next two weeks of meetings at their place, and if the other den wanted to come they could. They didn't bother visiting the other den, or learning about castaway. When that den shows up for the castaway weekend, parents and Webelos are clueless as to what is going on and what to do. Instead of building shelters, the Webelos are off goofing off, and the parents are complaining about not knowing what is going on. Eventually the parents start building one gigantic shelter for them so the Webelos could "earn" castaway. Only 4 of the 9 Webelos who Crossed Over remain with us after 11 months. One of the reasons I am told they quit is that Boy Scouts is too much work

Hope they change the word children to youth on the applications now when referring to Boy Scouts.

When I see stuff like what happened last night I get very discouraged. And sometimes I feel like my two sons: advancement doesn't mean a thing since everyone is receiving ranks and badges and not actually knowing the skills to earn it. Oldest has commented on MB mills and summer camp classes. Middle son has commented about current advancement situation. But I know in the overall scheme of things, advancement is important. Yes, the Scout who has no medical problems that cannot camp with out dad being with him is now Second Class. SM told him at the Tenderfoot SMC that he would not advance further until he started staying away from dad. Since that SMC, of the 2 camp outs I was at with them, dad stayed outside the shelter until he fell asleep, and son when home when when dad would not stay near him. Then you got the Scout who appears to have no interest in the program, and is only in it because mom is pushing him. Neither one seems interested in the program. And from what I see the parents are pushing a "one and done" or "high speed low drag" approach to advancement. And sadly the SM and other adults save 1 don't see a problem with it. On the opposite extreme is the Tenderfoot who has every thing done for Second Class except 1 requirement, AND everything done for First Class except 2 requirements, one of which will be completed next week. This Tenderfoot is one whom I would trust with my, or my sons' lives with as he truly knows the basic S-T-2-1 Skills. Except swimming. He is a non-swimmer, and that is something he is going to work on as soon as a pool opens up. Talking to the wife, my plan is to work with those Scouts I do have relationships with to make sure they get the program as it is suppose to be done. And the ones I have relationships with get what Scouting is suppose to be. I can only do so much, and I do not have time to waste on those who do not get it. An aside, I think I know why other adults do not want the PLs and SPL signing off on rank. While the excuse is that the Scouts will give away the ranks to their friends, I actually think the adults are afraid the Scouts will hold each other to higher standards and not sign off on stuff until the Scouts truly mastered the skills. I think they beleive advancement will occur at a snail's pace.

Since oldest has been in Scouts, only 1 of the 3 camps he went to had any free swim or boating during the day. One had free swim as a nite activity, but no boating. None of the camps had free shooting during the day, 2 only at nite, and one of those limited to shotgun OR rifle shooting. Son still has a partial in Archery MB. Additionally you would have some Scouters protest. One SM thought one of my Scouts wasted his time taking Swimming a second time.

I am not an engineer, so I cannot tell you about nasties and what not. BUT, my sons dismantle old electronics all the time. Computers, iphones, HO scale engines, you name it,they probably took one apart. So far, so good.

As others have mentioned, it's not the MBs and advancement that is the problem, but the abuse, and what else can you call pencil-whipping, MBCs, etc, that is becoming more and more the norm. Even in my own troop, I am seeing folks earn advancement who should not have the MBs and rank. Examples include folks who have "earned" say MBs at summer camp, like canoeing but do not have the skills to actually do something as easy and a canoe trip on a slow river. Or the Scout who has passed off on the tent requirement for Tenderfoot, yet must have dad outside the tent until he falls asleep, or he complains he wants to go home. They may have done something, but they have not "mastered the skill" as the older, Green Bar Bill literature has as the standard. Now it is as if National encourages "one and done." Do they still handout little rank emblems at ITOLs for doing basic S-T-2-1 skills?

While you may be paid less, you get away from the parents, and you will work with folks that will become friends for a lifetime. There is something special about being Summer Camp Staff, and I wish I would have worked it in HS instead of college and as a pro. But since I was essentially supporting myself once my father left, I needed the money,.

Depends on the Scout. Since none of the MBs you need are offered, what is offered that you are interested in? Some will take other MBs, and 2 scouts I know repeated MBs they already had for fun. While one SM I met said it was a waste of their time and money, the Scouts had fun. Personally I wish one them would have taken Lifesaving again instead of Swimming so he could practice skills, and I could "drown" him when I played victim. Some camps offer specialty programs/ HA programs. Camp I went do offered a HA program that was a BLAST! BSA Lifeguard is another option, and if you take the ARC test, you can get a job too. I lifeguarded throughout HS and college once certified. Working camp is another suggestion. To me it seems as if fewer and fewer camps offer free swim, boating, and shooting. If your camp offers that, chill out and do that.

Regarding the 1998 stats, take them with a grain of salt. I know there was some inflation, i.e. Ronnie Holmes and Greater AL Council. While that is the largest one known, there were inflated stats all over.

Actually one of the wagons I had a broken wheel. So it was a 3 wheel wagon, and acceptable by G2SS rules for my Cubs to use for transporting gear at camp.

I actually had a bunch of Bears laugh at me when I told them they could not use their little red wagons any more to transport flags for our Memorial Day service project. They thought I was joking.

When the matrix first came out about 6 or 7 years ago, I was ticked off to the point I was complaining to the local SE asking if camp cooking and popcorn sales would be next to be restricted since the matrix is based upon US Department of Labor rules for companies. He contacted national about it. Since some Life Scouts work in conjunction with Habitat for Humanity, BSA decided to adapt their rules, which are based upon DOL. Plus BSA does hire youth, and those rules do affect summer camp staff. Still they are a joke. Oldest son as a 13 year old started his own lawn cutting service. But if he went to work for a friend's business, he would not be allowed to cut grass.

You are correct. For reasons I can only assume, my council did not convert the ISSUs into LFL groups. I lost about 10# in the butt chewing I got from my boss when I turned in LFL paperwork instead of traditional recharters.

Back in the day, my council didn't have LFL units, they had "In School Scouting Units."(ISSU). I got in a bit of trouble for turning some of those "ISSU" to LFL groups. Sarcastically some of my peers dubbed them "Traditional For Life" and "Learning for Traditional" units, and there was some challenges. After the reprimand, I "dropped" four of those units. They miraculously reappeared after I quit. As for Venturing and Awards, advancement was never meant to be a method in Venturing. They were meant to be recognition for folks interested in them.

With all due respect to Qwazse, it is the understatement of the past 2 decades. Venturing had so much potential when I first heard about it in May 1998, that A) I was jealous that Exploring was not like it reagarding the recognitions and challenges to get them when I was of age and B) could not wait to promote it. Sadly my council focused o Cubs and "in school Scouting" units.

Glad that Scouters didn't need to be around when I did my project. Only adult there was my mom, and she took care of snacks and drinks. My buddies did all the work, and I did the supervising.

Technically you are as CORs are part of the district and council committees with voting rights. Grant you I've only seen 1 COR do just that, but he was also the district chairman as well.

I hope not, but it sure seems that way at times.

You're not in NC by any chance? One of my district folks said nearly the exact same thing when I told them how long I was in Scouting when I first moved here.

Originally, the goal was to finish the program by the end of the school year, May or June depending upon where you live. When national dropped the age of Tigers to 1st grade, they also made Webelos an 18-24 month long program. Many packs moved the Webelos AOL and Cross Over ceremonies to Blue and Gold in the February/March time frame. For whatever reason, people got it in their monds that ALL advancement had to be done by Blue and Gold, and that is not the case at all. IMHO, with everything else going on at BnG I do not want anything else going on. @Jameson76 I think you got the wrong engine. I believe this is the Eagle Express.