Eagle94-A1

With all due respect, 2 words: "LINKED TROOPS" (emphasis) let's face it, if 2 troops share a CO, Share a committee, share ASMs, share meeting nights and location, share activities, and share cam,pouts, is it really 2 separate troops? No it isn't, it is one coed troop, despite what the paperwork says. .

Oh it will be a race, and someone will try and claim to be the very first. Heck I bet some EBOR will do one at Midnite August 1 2020 to claim it. Although an evil thought has popped into my mind To reward those ladies who followed the rules and joined Venturing, automatically give them credit for First Class, and any Venturing awards that have similar OR easier Boy Scout MB requirements, give them the MBs. That would narrow down the playing field in the race to Eagle.

From what I am reading, they are learning the skills now so that once Feb 1st comes, they can demonstrate them and earn the rank. I agree, getting Eagle should not be a race, but a journey. I talk about my cousin nd how he Eagled and quit at 13, and thus missed out on a heck of a lot whereas I Eagled at 18, and had so much fun I never really quit.

Since 1989 when they removed the time requirements for T-2-1 ranks, I've seen 1 Scout make it in 6 months, and then he had 3 BORs in the same night! This was in 1990 right after the requirements changed and we did not know we could have 1 BOR for all three ranks.

Actually the bare minimum of time to go from Scout to First Class is 3 months, and that is for the physical fitness requirements ( 1 month each for Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class. So the absolute earliest for First Class if Girls start on Feb. 1 would be May 1st, 2019 September 1st for Star, March 1st for Life, and August 2020 the earliest for a female Eagle. looking around Facebook, there are troop that have siblings already working on advancement so that as soon as they are allowed to join, they can get rank ASAP.

WOW. Just WOW!

That is not the case in my neck of the woods. We lost another unit over the issue, and are about to lose a second. We had lost a bunch of volunteers with the last membership change, and are still trying to replace them. It is now even harder because of the girls issue. Most of the troops in my district do not want to have anything to do with girls or being "linked troops." 2 troops, which had packs fold over the last membership policy change, have expressed concerns that when their packs restart, they will be coed, and they will be forced to become "linked troops" with girls. As for my troop, the SM meets with the IH today. He told me he believes the CO will go coed, BUT the overwhelming majority of those polled, Scouts, Parents, and Others ( committee members, ASMs without kids, Webelos, etc) do NOT want to be a "linked troop" and that if the girls want their own troop, they are OK with it, as long as they do not meet or camp with the boys. We'll see how long that stays, as I believe @David CO is correct, BSA is slowly going to a coed program at all levels.

Regarding units being told what to do, I know that, But I have a feeling the DE contacted our IH about the matter directly. Contacted the SM today, and the meeting is tomorrow, but htere is a 99.99999% chance of us going coed. And I agree, packs that do not go coed will be at a disadvantage. Ditto with all male troops that are not "Linked Troops" with an all female troop. Let's be "TRUSTWORTHY" and admit "linked troops" sharing meeting nights, activities, committees etc are really coed troops.

A few comments, 1) FYI Pros are suppose to contact the IH at least once a year to discuss their units. I also know a lot of DEs don't do that because "you have more important things to do waste your time talking to existing units" as my old boss told me. 2) I agree that calling an IH out of the blue and demanding an answer in a week is outrageous, especially since BSA has not provided enough guidance on the matter for some COs to make the decision. 3) I think this is happening a lot of places because my DE at RT the other day told me my son's pack will be coed, and the pack at my other sons' CO will also be going coed, and the CMs of both packs have not talked to the IHs yet.

Thanks for the links. For some reason, when I searched h for the instructor syllabus, the pre 2017 version came up. Looks like a major revision too. Going to talk to the SM about it because he took the course last summer, and didn't mention any basic vs river differences. So this may be the first camp season the revised course is being offered. Glancing over the requirements for river certification, I know some camps will have issues unless they go off site. I know the camp I grew up at a, as well as the camp I got the Aquatics Supervision Course at, does not have the river facilities to priovide certification unless goping off site.

Could you provide a link to the 2 levels of AQUATICS SUPERVISION:PADDLECRAFT because when I took the class, and attempted to get recertified, there was no distinctions. This was 4 and 2 years ago respectively.

THAT IS 110% ACCURATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Starting a unit to last is extremely hard. And getting a troop Scout led is not only harder, but also more time consuming, 3-5 years IMHO. When I was a pro, I started 6 units. Within a year 3 folded due to lack of volunteers. As for Rogue Packs and Troops, some folks against girls joining will say it is because of these Rogue Packs and Troops that we are now in this situation.

Actually from the survey we are taking, and the results are not final BTW, we have a diehard group for coed, and group with major reservations about going coed, and the majority not liking the idea of girls joining, but will deal with it. My own sons are in the latter category to a degree. If there are problems with cancelled trips due to not having enough female Scouters, they will transfer out. And I will not be going on any camp outs with girls unless a female ASM is present per my understanding of the proposed BSA policy. Your original question was " Isn't the BSA's core product a youth leadership and character-development program with an outdoor focus? Is that changing?" While girls are getting the bulk of attention now, Exploring and STEM Scouts preceded it, and in some areas ar egetting a lot more attention that traditional programs, again until girls were added. They do not have an outdoor component. As I stated, I am willing to give it a try. However I am not willing to go camping with girls unless a female SM, or a female ASM over 21 years of age, is also in attendance. i do not beleive that calling a camp out a "family camp out" with girls' dads in attendance would be YPT2 compliant. Not going to put myself into a position where an accusation can ruin my life as it did to a friend of mine when one "Scout" accused her of making a pass at him because she caught him being a peeping Tom at the female shower area. Despite a criminal investigation clearing her, her reputation was destroyed in the community, and she was permanently placed in the Ineligible Volunteer Files.

As long as the blade is under 60", it's OK. See this Official BSA website for information https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2013/04/01/blade-length/

Yes, outdoors.

Same here, especially since there is a demand to go full blown coed from some of the adults in my troop. When having a discussion about needing female Scouters on campouts , the response had been "turn it into a family camp out" if a female Scouter cannot go. Told my boys that I will not go camping with the "linked troops" without a female Scouter present.

Yes it is. Career Interest Exploring and STEM Scouts come to mind.

But look at the number of units that have ignored BSA policy of boys only for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts over the past 40 years and how what they did is the policy effective June 11th for Cub Scouts and February 1st for Boy Scouts. call me cynical, but I foresee units ignoring BSA policy and going full coed. Heck my own unit has Scouters stating that the girls' troop will be on paper only. They will be "Linked Troops" sharing everything; equipment, meeting nites, camp outs, summer camp, and adult volunteers.

We already have reports from early adopters that some "Girls' den" and the "Boys' den" ideas is not working and that the two dens are doing "joint" activities.

If memory serves, and please correct me if I am not correct @ianwilkins and @Cambridgeskip, when The Scout Association went coed, you could have all male, all female, or coed. Over time there were fewer and fewer all male troops, and eventually everyone was forced to go coed.

But it may be considered a Webelos Den Camp Out. Again WHO KNOWS???????????????? (caps for emphasis, not shouting at you. )

Do not know what is going on with the CO's pack except the CM, who is stepping down at the end of the month, is all for it. Currently the troop is doing a survey of everyone affiliated with the troop: Scouts, parents, and Others (future Scouts, Scouters without kids, etc.). Results are not finished, but so far the ones for girls are adults. The overall majority is against girls, but will deal with them if the CO wants to go coed ( that is how we are reading "Linked Troops"). We do have some Scouts that said if the girls start interfering with their program, they will either transfer or quit altogether. Again very few are all for it. On a positive note, 5 females said they would be willing to become SM/ASMs of the "Linked troop." Hopefully they will be willing to get trained and deprogrammed from Cub Scout Leader mode. You may want to double check on that. My understanding from all the stuff I am seeing regarding YPT2 is that a registered female Scouter over 21 must camp when girls camp, parents do not count.

COs have a lot of authority since they own the units. COs can make stricter policies if they want. While they can give authority of Cub Scout leaders over Boy Scouts, I strongly do not recommend it. There are two completely different programs using trwo completely different methods. Most Cub Scout leaders do not understand Boy Scouts and how it works. And if the Cub Leader, or troop committee member for that matter, is not active with the troop, wear a uniform, etc , how would a Scout know that person is registered? Best example of that type of situation was a recent fundraiser. SPL gave directions to his PLs, and one PL was following through with them. All of a sudden an adult tells him to stop what he is doing and go back to work. A minute of two later I pass the PL and he is confused and asked me what to do. I asked him did he know who it was who told him to stop doing what the SPL told him to do? "No." then I asked was he in uniform? "No." Then do what the SPL told you to do.

Lots of good advice. Don't envy your having to make a decision. After my father left, I had to work. I was fortunate in that lifeguarding was fun. But if I could have staffed camp, I would have, BUt the pay was a heck of a lot better with the lifeguard job.

Awesome. Now I got this song in my head.