Eagle94-A1

Still do not know the overall breaking point, but now know my sons' breaking point regarding the troop: becoming a "linked troop." They do not want to do anything with girls. They want their own time to be with the guys.. CO currently says separate troops, but they will revisit the issue if there are problems with getting a girls' troop set up. And we got a few Scouters and parents who do want to be "linked" from the get go. I have a felling that we will become "linked" within the next 18 months. As to why I use quotation marks regarding "linked," EVERYONE I have talked to says that if they become "linked troops" they will be so on paper only. They will operate as a coed troop with gender-based patrols. As for other troops and COS, only 1 states they will not form a girls' troop. Other troops in the area want to remain male only, but they are trying to reform their packs, which will be coed. So I do not think male only troops will last.

Sorrty to see you leave. Good luck whatever you decide.

BALOO focuses on Cub Scout Camping, which includes Webelos since they did away with Outdoor Webelos Leader training, and IOLS is basic Scoutcraft. baloo focuses on the very basics of camping and showing new families how to camp on a budget and using stuff they already have. IOLS get yo up to speed so you are not a burden on your Scouts and other adults. While the courses are different, someone imaginative could come up with a combined 3 day course that covers both courses. I know some districts combined OWL training and IOLS into one weekend because they were so similar. Plus by showing Cub Adults what is expected at Scouts BSA level, I hope it would improve the Webelos program and start weening the kids form their parents on camp outs when they become Webelos.

Extremely large one, more than 18%-19% that is their percentage of total membership. That's because there is intense pressure to earn Eagle from the LDS units I've seen, and heard about from LDS Scouters. Just look how Utah, which has 80+% of its membership in LDS units always leads the country in most Eagles produced.

Actually Youth Protection does affect program. Up until May 2018, a patrol could do day activities on their own without any adults. I remember doing patrol meetings, patrol shopping, and patrol hiking without any adults around. That is not more. Oh and not to mention no more patrol camping without adults, but that happened in 2012. Those are some of the YOP changes that have affected Scouts since my day. Oh and let's not forget, you must have TWO 21+ year olds who are registered, a parent or 18 year old Scouter no longer counts. I know of units that will affect, and it would have affected my troop growing up, especially in regards to summer camp.

Understood. I know how sensitive that question is. I have family and friends who are not capable of having children. It is something I would not ask, in any situation nor something that can be legally asked when interviewing someone for a job. BUT, when someone brings it up themselves, and makes a point to show how they can dedicate themselves completely to a job because they do not have kids; then I consider it a legitimate concern.

Yes, please share your vision with us. Maybe others who are supportive of girls in the program. @WisconsinMomma, what do you see in the future?

While Surbaugh has risen through the ranks, that is part of his problem. He has not been a volunteer in a very long time, assuming he was a Scouter in college. And the bulk of his professional experience has been with Exploring and Learning for Life, and not traditional Scouting. From an interview somewhere, he deliberately had no children in order to focus on his career. That's another negative in my opinion because A) how can you relate to parents if you are not one and B) How can you relate to modern youth when you have no kids of your own?

Problem is, there are fewer and fewer old school Scouters left. Heck some of the Scouters I know are ISP survivors, and see nothing wrong with camping only when it's nice, doing indoor activities, and "one and done."

I cannot put aside the doom and gloom because a Scout is TRUSTWORTHY.(emphasis) National has not done anything correct since 1972, EXCEPT bring back Green Bar Bill. Everything has further deteriorated Scouting in the US. And I do not believe these current changes have been well thought out. I do not think we are headed in a good direction. I see a smaller BSA with less resources for serving Scouts.

Especially when they declare a camp does not meet NCAP standards, and they can no longer use it, thus removing any revenue.

"I LOVE YOU DIXIE CUP.... I'LL NEVER FORGET YOU DIXIE CUP...."

Already know about "linked troops" that will in reality be a coed troop. Only thing stopping my troop from doing just that, at the moment, is the fact that the majority of Scouts, parents, and others are completely against it, and some will leave over the matter. However if the separate girls' troop does not work out, the CO will revisit the decision.

So are someof the Scouts. Oldest REFUSES to even discuss one MB because it is handed out like candy at summer camps, without Scouts actually doing all of the requirements. He now has 1 requirement, demonstrate several specific moves, and he is done. But because of the summer camps and folks getting it without earningit, he's lost all interest.

Creek is an Eagle and advertised once in Boys' Life magazine back in the day. I know he rented a local scout camp for some cometition.

Regarding the camping within 2 years requirement, that has been around for some time. Sadly some Scout units do not camp much, so that had to put that in.

Press relaeses are suppose to be out today I read on FB.

For early adopters, you were suppose to have a minimum of five. However that was not enforced. Just like separate dens was not enforced.

Houma of Louisiana are also supportive of the OA. Heck, several of the lodges down there have helped the Houma in their appeal for Federal recognition.

Several posts on the Vigil Honor facebook page comment on that, as well as comments on a ceremonies FB group, and my lodge chief, who is heavily invovled in AIA on the section level. That annoucement is suppose to be made at NOAC this summer from all indicators above. I know a lot of folks who will be ticked off.

Agreed, there have been several times that my sons patrol have met at my house. I would be the only adult home, and usually either go outside and play with youngest, or go to my office and shut the doors.

Once upon a time, Sea Scout Ships and Explorer Posts cold hold OA elections. That ended sometime in the mid-late 1980s. So I am not to concerned about that. What concerns me is the Lenni lanape Lore as I have been told that chapters are to no longer do Arrow of Light and Cross Over ceremonies, nor are they to wear Native American regalia. I think the OA will lose alot as a result.

That will cause problems for some units. I know back in the day, I was the only adult at camp the entire week, and 2 other adults would swap out. And yes, I was 19-20 when that happened. Also know of troops that have challenges with 21+ adults doing things and rely heavily on their 18-2o year old adutls. That is so screwed up. But saw that coming, especially with the introduction of girls. IMHO BSA is beginning to prepare for coed patrols, despite what they are saying about separate programs and "linked troops."

Why does this song keep popping into my head? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ2X9SANsME

Well, Wood Badge was described as the "Mountaintop Experience" and promoted as the completion of training back in the day in my home council. Once you went through the weeklong course and were working your ticket, you usually staffed all the other training programs. Heck the only reason why I was able to staff the Junior Leader Training Conference as a 20 year old Scouter was because I went through the old Brownsea 22 Course for Scouts, and had the same training foundation as the other Scouters who were working their ticket, or complete WB. While the previous Cub Scout Trainer and Boy Scouter Courses were not perfect, from my experiences having Scouters in my troop who went through the older course, and dealing with both Boy Scouters and Cub Scouters who went through the two courses, if you compare them to the folks who go through today's course, the older course produced better Scouters who could work with their scouts and provide an outstanding program. And from talking to folks who have staffed both courses and have professional experience as trainers, they also said the older courses better served our youth.