Eagle94-A1

Another reason on adult attitudes was WHEN (emphasis) they were in Scouting. I know a former Scouter who was an Eagle in the 1972-1979 "Improved Scouting Program" era. That was when it was possible to be an Eagle without a single night of camping. He could not understand why camping was important.

As much as I like the idea, the cow is out the barn regarding advancement. I remember watching some national online meeting during COVID, I think it was 2021 National Meeting, where National was praising a FL council for having online MBUs and awarding over 20,000 MBs during the pandemic. As for adults bringing back integrity, you already have adults trying to cut corners on training. I had adults trying to get me to sign off on their training, but would not staff a class, or when it was allowed, test out of the class. Sorry if I am pessimistic.

I know when we did how a troop meeting is done with the old SM Fundamentals (SMF) Training, we were told we were to act like Scouts, and work as patrols during our meeting. Maybe because of my age at the time, but I didn't have problems. And I didn't notice any of my patrol mates having problems either. If memory serves, the model PLC used the actual SMF troop PLs with the rest of us watching. But I may be getting confused with BA22 and JLTC. But I agree 100%, training needs to focus more on interaction with Scouts through mentoring and counseling. That was a skill set, counseling PLs while being SPL or JASM, with both BA 22 and JLTC, was very applicable as an adult.

Today's Scouting is not the same program as it use to be. The Cub Scout Program was completely revamped in 2015, with a revision of those requirements in December 2016 . My then Webelos 2 said they "watered down requirements" because they made things easier to earn. Thankfully the pack decided to ignore the 2016 changes until June 2017 because the "immediate" changes were major enough to cause advancement delays, as well as force the pack to change their programming. And they have changed the program a few more times since 2017, with the latest being Webelos cannot begin transitioning to Scouts as that happens in 5th grade now. As for Scouts, the emphasis is on advancement, not fun, adventure, and growth.

Learning for Life is not a bonus. LFL is a subsidiary that most councils, at least the ones I have been in and work for, don't want to have, because once established, they need that program to grow as well. I got into major trouble for tryng to convert "In School Scouting" units to LFL groups. I don't think they are trying to cheat the system. I think they are tyring to synchronize their Scout's membership renewal with the unit's recharter.

Not just Cubs, and it is worse. I had to talk to Scouts who cared less about Eagle because they know Eagles who honestly didn't earn it. They asked me "What's the purpose if everyone gets it." That was a difficult discussion. They got upset with folks being handed MBs without doing the work they did. Again another difficult discussion. But the one that hit me hard was OA elections. OA meant a lot to me growing up, and I remained active as an adult. Sons even helped me assemble regalia and the drum. None of my sons got interested in the OA. One because he saw folks he knew, and questioned how they got elected. Another was pumped to join, until the Call Out Ceremony, when one of his peers in his former troop, who hated camping and was a trouble maker, got called out with him. He lost all interest in the OA because, "If an honor society will let him in, it is not a big deal." Youngest was never interested because of his brothers' experiences. Which was good because the chapter would not stop to do unit elections after 3 years of asking for them. I know in some parts of the country, HS extracurriculars are also graded. I know at the HS I went to, your PE class was based on the sports you played. The practices and games in season counted as class, and the scheduled class period was mandatory study hall. Miss a practice or game, there went your grade. Band had it worse as they had to attend practices, games, competitions, and parades. Depending on the time of year, their music class was more practice, and not study hall. Ditto with missing something, because it affected your grade.

That is part of the problem. Sports tend to want your entire life to revolve around the sport, and nothing else. Or there will be consequences. I still remember when the martial arts dojo sprang a last minute weekend seminar with 4 days notice. Happened to be the same weekend an aunt from out of town was visiting. The owners expected my kids to attend the last minute weekend seminar instead of the activities we had planned with their aunt. The next session after the weekend seminar, all those who didn't attend were chewed out. And when it came time to spar, those who attended were being encouraged to beat the crap out of those who didn't attend. When I talk to parents of kids involved in sports, all I hear is how their lives are completely turned around and focused on that sport: school team, travel leagues, camps, workshops, etc. Scouting doesn't have that mentality. I think some folks want the low advancement standards so their child can get eagle and move on to focus on sports.

Sorry for the disjointedness. dealing with issues. Training is horrible, and adults do not know vital skills. How can you expect a good program if you cannot do the basics? Many units focus on advancement, a left over from Cub Scouts IMHO. And part of that is WDLs have not been getting the training they need on transitioning from Cubs to Scouts. And they keep on doing what they have been trained. Additionally advancement standards have indeed dropped, despite what folks say. When a Life Scout cannot do basic T-2-1 first aid, that is a problem. And if you try to have standards, you get complaints of adding to requirements or gatekeeping, and told they need to quit. Some folks quit. And some just focus on their units. As for professionals, the training I went through as a pro didn't cover programming, just the "3 Ms": Money, Membership, and Manpower. Yes, I had to have SM Fundamentals, Cub Scout Basic Leader Training, and Explorer Leader Basic (either the full class or self study course with advisor) in order to be a DE. But that was so that we could understand the programs we were working for. And I am told today's DEs not only getting less topics covered in training, but also are NOT required to have any of the program basic trainings done completed prior to professional training.. So very few pros have the abilties to run programs.

Training sucks. There is no denying it. Standards have dropped to the point they are almost nonexistant, and if you try to keep some, you are told you are gatekeeping or adding to requirements. Folks with knowledge, skills, abilities, and experience are being told they don't know what they are doing, they need to quit, etc. they are getting fed up and quitting. As far as professionals go, very, very few have what it takes to run programs. Most are just out of college and trying to pay off loans. more later.

Many councils have December 31st as the last day of a unit's charter year. That is so that those units that fold, and members that drop, are considered in the end of year tally. The 837,145 number is probably correct.

Historically, the end of year numbers have always come out in March, as they have had rechartering issues in the past too. I remember one pack that had paperwork issues, was "dropped," and then reappear with their membership numbers magically added to the end of year numbers once the charter was completed. I hope I am wrong, but I do not think we will reach 975,672 (2% growth) for 2025 when everything is said and done. I do not think we will suddenly find 68,534 members.

I was invited to teach a MB at an MBU. Told them point blank it would be a partial. Sent out email telling Scouts in the class what things they could do before the MBU to get the MB. I got a lot of complaints, and was never asked back. Irony was it was Indian Lore MB, and i had a full blood Lakota stationed at the air base "auditing" my class. I got a lot of praise from her for what we went over. Too bad she wasn't in the session with the smart aleck who asked "which is more violent, Rugby or Lacrosse" My response was "While rugby is a thug sport played by gentlemen, and rugby's unofficial motto is 'Give Blood, Play Rugby,' no one ever was enslaved or executed for losing a game of rugby whereas in some versions of lacrosse losers were enslaved or ritually sacrificed. So Lacrosse is the more violent of the two." Shut him down the rest of the class.

Here is the irony, he is fully trained and is scheduled to go to WB in the near future.

Yes To quote the grandfather in PRINCESS BRIDE, "Wait, just wait." The "official" December 2025 number will be out in a few weeks. Still we are down from last year

So I attended my first event today with the new troop. The SM is "trained," but admitted he doesn't consider himself "trained," and is glad I am joining the troop. We started talking, and from the discussion, I realized a lot of info was left out of the online training. We are trying to recruit new Scouters, and I have a feeling I will be doing some informal training with them on camp outs.

I resembled that remark.

Do not know if this happens in sports still, know it does with music, but the activity is a grade, you don't make practice, attend a game, etc and you lose points off your grade. For example, all the football players tended to have the same PE class. However during season, practice and games was the PE class, and that period was used as a mandatory study hall for the player. Ditto other sports. Band would get a study period for major activities only.

Something on my newsfeed. https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/soaring-price-youth-sports-50-174913819.html

Circa 2012 to 2014.

I see now that day camp is at least 2 days now. when NCAP started, that wasn't the case, and a district single day activity, like PWD, had to follow NCAP.

My old troop had 1 fundraiser a year. Every Scout had a goal to sell x number of plates. Paid for all advancement, weekend campouts (except food, $ varied by patrol) and depending upon the year 50% to 100% of summer camp. Before National skyrocketed the dues, also paid that and Boy's Life. Depending upon where you are at, you can get by cheaply, especially backpacking. One national forest nearby has no fees for backpackers. One state park charges only for parking if you are backpacking. One place we went biking cost us $100 for everyone for the weekend. That was less than $10/person. Key is willingness to explore new places.

Very true, adults cannot model the skills because they have no training or experience. And the powers that be think online learning is enough. Bill Hillcourt said it best " SCOUTING IS OUTING!" But I am leery of outside certifications. I remember when LNT Trainer was a Scout POR that required LNT Trainer certification, but most places offering it wanted you to be 18+. And to be honest even going through training is not enough. I went through Aquatics Supervision Paddle Sports training, and am certified to teach paddle board to Scouts. Just because I am certified, doesn't mean I have the knowledge or skills to do it. 2 to 3 hours on a paddle board was not enough time, especially with my balance to master those skills. Give me a canoes or kayak any day. Once upon a time, national allowed a test out of IOLS. You had to demonstrate ALL of the skills, and if you missed one, you had to take the course. That lasted a year or two because some folks were just pencil whipping the training. Which considering the standard of one and done, pencil whipping is the norm from national. Unfortunately pros are judged by the number of units they have, even if they are substandard. So there is a LOT of pressure on them. I tried to focus on quality, not quantity, and my boss gave me hell for it. And trust me pros cannot remove unit leaders. When I was a DE, we had a pack that had extremely poor leadership. I could recruit 30 Scouts for them, and 5 would remain. The #1 complaint was the CM, they needed to be removed. I had a chat with the COR/IH, who was an involved Scouter. But even he was unwilling to remove them because he had no idea who to replace them with. As for unit visits, I can tell you I had one unit I started having a lot, and I mean a lot, of challenges. I was doing my best to help them out by basically serving as their commissioner as we did not have a commissioner corps ( that is another story). My boss chewed me a new one for helping the unit out. I got around that by visiting them as a member of their CO, the service organization that I belong to. Until national wants quality over quantity, we will continue circling the drain.

Gotcha. It has been so long since I had to deal with NCAP, I can't remember what year it was. I do know all three of my kids were Cubs, so it was over, 10 years ago, and closer to 16. I know my council was ticked off with me for doing the inspection necessary because the camp was a D+ or C- grade.

Unless things have changed, NCAP also covers day activities.