Eagle94-A1

One reason why Scouting America doesn't cut off Scouting at 13 or 14, and makes Venturing the next stage, (emphasis) if you look at older, pre 1989 BSA literature. The middle schoolers look up to, and learn from the highschoolers. They will usually be the ones elected into leadership roles. Traditional, aka Mixed Age Patrols, were the standard. Unless you were LDS which used aged based patrols. Patrols could actually do things on their own without adults, including camping. Older members mentored and worked with younger members. Nowadays the lack of Scouter manpower, forces troops to focus on the Troop Method, and not the Patrol Method. IMHO, Scouting America has lost its way. Instead of focusing on adventure and fun to promote individual growth, the focus is now on MBs and getting Eagle. Instead of hiring and listening to folks with outdoor experience, Scouting America is hiring "Educational Leadership" experts with no idea how Scouting is suppose to work, but a ton of theories on how to develop youth. The one I met had no outdoors experience whatsoever, no jobs outside of academia, and was appalled when I said they needed to spend time at a summer camp. Even then summer camp is turning into outdoor school. And do not get me started on aged based patrols. I was one of the guinea pigs when it was beta tested, and shocked when it became the recommendation.

While I would "Be Prepared" to create a new, all-girls troop, February will be when the announcement on coed troops comes out. If I was a betting man, I would put my money on coed troops.

I noticed the second page has a photo of Green Bar Bill on it. I wonder if he is spinning in the grave with what is going on at national?

Well the Scouters, save 1 who is out of town and really just keeps reregistering for OA purposes, families, and Scouts now know. One family is extremely angry, they are legacy and wanted the Scout's name on the church's wall with dad. They were only focused on that, not the best interest of their Scout or the others. The other two families, saw it coming, and appreciate we lasted as long as we did. One even commented on they were surprised we didn't fold last year. The Scouts were completely different. The two Scouts were upset and holding it in by the looks of their faces. One broke down. The troop was his "safe space" where he wasn't bullied or insulted. The question that really struck me was "where will you be going Mr. Eagle94-A1?" I told them wherever the majority goes. I did not want to influence their decision, I want them to explore and decide on their own. But my gut tells me one troop will be a better fit for all four of the Scouts.

Just prepped my notes for the parents meeting, and for the Scouts afterwards. This hurts.

Well I told College ASM 1 yesterday. He took it stoically, and knew it was coming via dad. College ASM 2, although listed as "Scout," was informed today. He took it really hard. He thanked me for calling him and talking to him about it.

Very apt. As mentioned a lot of COs do not know what their actual duties are. And councils take advantage. A lot of CORs do not know they are voting members of the council, and if massed together can prevent somethings from happening. And councils depend on that fact to get things they want done that may not be in the best interest of the Scouts.

Once upon a time, everything belonged to the CO: money, equipment, memorabilia, etc. Sometime in the past 20 years that changed. Challenge is that our troop is so old, that some of the stuff we have predates the council. Also the council has been of NO help whatsoever, for over a decade now. Worse, they have been more of a hindrance than a help. The CC still remembers when he was district CC and was politely call a liar at a council meeting regarding a project he asked to work on. And I have relayed my stories of their interference in other threads. They have lied to us about events being cancelled last minute and why they sold property. So no Scouter active in the unit wants the council to get anything.

Well, the meeting with the CC went better than expected. He concurs with the exit strategy. But one interesting thing happened today. Ran into someone whose troop recently folded. Found out the council went after both the troop's money and equipment.

So I am in the process of dissolving the troop, and it is getting me depressed. I have been doing paperwork, making sure records are up to date so wherever they go, they won't have any advancement issues. I do not want my Scout to face the issues I had back in the day, or issues I have seen over the years. Also wanted to see what we can do to finish up advancement. Also created a calendar with remaining commitments: court of honor, Christmas party, and service project. I meet with the CC later today, and get to tell him we are dissolving the troop. That is going to be a challenging conversation. He has a long history with the troop, and sometimes I think his loyalty is to the troop, not the Scouts. But the CC has not been active since May, and has not been seeing what has been happening. The de facto CC and I realized that even if we did get 1 more Scout, because of the troop's make up, Some Scouts would be unable to do camp outs due to school activities, and it is hard to have a good camp out with fewer than 5 Scouts. And that is a disservice to the Scouts. This week we meet with the parents, and hopefully they will come. But last time I asked for parents to attend, regarding summer camp, no one showed up. I feel this is an issue we tell folks in person, and not in an email. Bad enough I got to tell the two college Scouters via text or phone. And I am also telling the Scouts. Keep me in your prayers.

At this stage of the game, I could care less if the council blackballs me. I already removed myself from district/council activities to focus on my unit. They cannot punish me via my sons, as I have heard some pros have done.

I wonder what the "Trust Issues" are? I know in one council, a camp that was originally in a trust was outright donated to the scout council. The council then sold it.

Forgot about the soda. Can anyone tell me why?

For Sea Scouts Sleeping in a cabin would not count for Camping MB because a cabin does not meet the requirement. Sleeping on the deck under the stars, or on shore in a tent, under the stars, etc would count.

Are your Scouts using nonmotorized means, i.e. paddling, rowing, surfing, or SAILING (emphasis) on a trip on the water of at least four hours or 5 miles? If yes, it counts.

That stat has been around for decades. It is the reason why newspapers have the 5th grade reading levels since at least the 1980s. If you really want to see the decline of writing, read diaries from the 1800s and earlier. Some of the 8th grade drop outs write more complex and with more vocabulary than college grads today.

Trust me, National did indeed give it to him and stated "you do not penalize the Scout for the mistakes of adults" in their letter giving him Eagle. And the entire process was followed to the letter at the time, i.e. denial at EBOR, letting stating reasons for it and how to remedy the situation, appeal to council advancement committee which endorsed the district's denial, and appeal to national. The entire district advancement committee resigned en masse over the issue writing in the letter that ( paraphrasing) if national wants to overrule the local board of review that reviewed the candidate, then they should start conducting them instead. The DE was furious with national's decision. Not only did it cause the committee, which he spent over 9 months recruiting for, to resign, he new the Scout, his family, and the unit the family ran, and agreed with the local EBOR decision. And the Scout had plenty of time to actually earn it: he was 13 or 14 when he got it. Not knowing who he was, I ran into him wearing his MB sash and Eagle patch and medal ( don't ask why, I don't know) to Den Chief training. I tried to strike up a conversation with him, using the MBs he wore to ask a few questions. Complete silence and "deer in the headlights" look as I asked him some questions, especially since I was new to the area, and some of the MBs he wore I counseled. After he left, the DE told me who he was, and I stated, "I understand why they (local EBOR) said he didn't earn it."

There are ways to find out if someone actually did requirements via discussion and not retesting. And remember, the G2A states: "The purpose of the review is to determine the quality of the candidate’s experience and decide whether the youth is qualified to advance. " (emphasis added). Page 29, 4.4.2.1. "Still, if any member dissents, the decision cannot be for approval. In the case of such disagreement, ... As indicated below the Scout is only told what improvements need to be made." P. 56 "If a board does not approve, the candidate must be so informed and told what can be done to improve...a follow-up letter must be promptly sent to a Scout of any rank who is turned down." So a Board of Review is suppose to make sure work was actually done, and can deny approval for advancement. But appeals will get approved.

Forgot to add, an entire district advancement committee, which denied the Scout his Eagle and gave him a plan to earn it properly, resigned in protest over National's decision to give it to him.

I can tell you it is extremely disheartening to other Scouts, especially special needs Scouts who are busting butt to meet requirements, to see someone who is unable to do basic skills, i.e. stuffing a sleeping bag, setting up a tent, etc, wearing a Life Rank on their pocket. The folded troop's SM "don't understand the importance of camping." And whether the Scout is telling me just what he remembers the SM saying, or the SM actually abridging requirements, but He says that SM told him all he needed to do foir XYZ MBs were one of the requirements. Family is pushing for Eagle and family is getting frustrated that we are showing requirements and giving workbooks. As for the Eagle Board, there is not much they can do. National will grant it and say something along the lines of "you do not penalize the Scout for the mistakes of the adult."

Some folks had signed up with an organization that you agree with, and over time the organization changes their ideas in an attempt to attract new members..

When I was a Scout, there was a unit that folded because a CO's IH no longer wanted a troop, and they wanted the troop's money, and equipment to sell at their yard sale. One of the members opposing the decision, and was an ASM or MC with my troop. Prior to folding, the money in the account was used to pay registration, BOYS' LIFE, summer camp, and in a few instances Philmont or NSJ. Equipment got sold to those units taking their Scouts very cheap ( I think we paid about $5 for 5 tents). The troop left about $100 in the account to give to the CO. So I understand the jadedness. In this circumstance, no one has issue with the CO doing that. With the exception of the recent de facto temporary pastor, the relationship has been extremely good. They have provided us with many resources over the troop's long history. They have paid for many things for us to use, and in the past have helped Scouts out financially.

We were fortunate for a long time. CO was involved with us, but it helped that the pastor is an Eagle and his son was in the troop. However when he left, the de facto interim pastor was not a fan of Boy Scouts. Things we had been able to do for decades were no longer allowed. When one of my sons had their Eagle Court of Honor, which was planned over 3 months in advance per her instructions, at the last minute she asked if we could postpone or move it because the church wanted to use the reserved room. When I suggested using a smaller room at the church that would accommodate us, she got very defensive. She went on and on about how we had to clean up after ourselves, not make in messes in the kitchen, etc etc. And when the pack that was folding went to her to see if they could move there and restart the church's pack, her attitude and demeanor threw the leadership off and they wnet elsewhere. With the new pastor, things have gotten back to normal. So with the 100+ year history with the CO, we would not have a problem with them keeping the money. However, with everything the council has done, and not done, we don't want them to get a dime more than what they are charging. Finding a new unit in our area is the challenge. Officially the last new unit is 2-3 years old, but in reality it resulted from the folding of one pack and moving to a new CO. Otherwise the last new troop was the girls troop founded in 2019. Even before their creation, units were dying. Our problems started before COVID.

Alright, I have read in multiple places that while the CO owns the gear, the unit's money goes to council. Does anyone have documentation on that? Plan with the funds we currently have is to pay for registrations and at least 50% of their summer camp for our guys . But we want to leave some money in the account for if the troop gets restarted, they have seed money. However if council is going to get the money, we will spend it all. Pay as much as possible for summer camp, have an awesome day trip, have a blow out Christmas party, etc. EDITED: I found the relevant documentation. Since we do not know how long it will take to restart the troop, if it ever gets restarted, I will suggest going with the worse case presented: completed dissolution with no intention of restarting. That way money can go for the purpose it was intended, providing opportunities for the Scouts, and equipment can be distributed, or completely disposed of ( we have a lot of old donated gear that we have not even looked at because newer is available).

Anecdotal, so take it for what it is worth. I transferred to an out of town troop after 6 months and stayed there until I left the region for a job. I have 3 Scouts transfer into my troop with 30 minute drives. We also had 2 scouts in the past live in their area making the trip. I had one Scout rejoin my troop. He had a 20 minute drive, and stayed with the troop until they folded. We had 2 troops and a pack switch COs from intown to out of town, basically 20 minutes away. Those units are thriving. In my experience, it is not the time spent travelling, it is whether or not the troop is meeting the wants and needs of the Scouts.