Hedgehog

Part of what needs to happen is to change the culture. To do that you need to not only manage but change expectations for both the boys and the parents. I explain to the new scouts that scouting is about leadership. Leadership is about being responsible for others. The best way to be responsible for others is to become responsible for yourself. I tell the older leaders that they are servant leaders - their job is to make things happen. I also tell them that leading isn't doing but enabling others to "do." I also tell them that they are in charge and they can do anything they want as long as it isn't illegal or contrary to G2SS. With the parents, you have to sell the idea of boy lead. Most parents love the idea that their boys are learning to be responsible. In 6th and 7th grade the boys really make a transition in school for being responsible for themselves. Scouts mirrors that transition. I explain that Scouting gives them a safe place to fail - something that is missing in most kids experience. I had a parent concerned about her son cooking for his patrol and she asked if I would help him. I told her that the older boys know their stuff and they will help him. I then smiled and said that he would be fine and reassured her that we've never had a patrol starve on a campout. I explain coffee cup leadership to the adults accompanying us - that their role is to get a cup of coffee and sit in a chair and watch. If I see them interfering, I say let me talk to the PL, it's his job to make sure that gets done (200 feet distance helps a lot). I also tell the PL how to handle the adults - a polite "Mr. Knowitall, I've got this." In corporate speak, it is called "buy in" in religion is is called proselytizing. It is a continual discussion with parents and scouts of "this is why boy lead, patrol method is good." Finally, as others have said, moving to boy lead is a process. The first step is telling people what you are doing, the second step is trying to do it, the third step is "start, stop and continue" - evaluate and change. The last step is to keep repeating steps two and three.

Part of what needs to happen is to change the culture. To do that you need to not only manage but change expectations for both the boys and the parents. I explain to the new scouts that scouting is about leadership. Leadership is about being responsible for others. The best way to be responsible for others is to become responsible for yourself. I tell the older leaders that they are servant leaders - their job is to make things happen. I also tell them that leading isn't doing but enabling others to "do." I also tell them that they are in charge and they can do anything they want as long as it isn't illegal or contrary to G2SS. With the parents, you have to sell the idea of boy lead. Most parents love the idea that their boys are learning to be responsible. In 6th and 7th grade the boys really make a transition in school for being responsible for themselves. Scouts mirrors that transition. I explain that Scouting gives them a safe place to fail - something that is missing in most kids experience. I had a parent concerned about her son cooking for his patrol and she asked if I would help him. I told her that the older boys know their stuff and they will help him. I then smiled and said that he would be fine and reassured her that we've never had a patrol starve on a campout I explain coffee cup leadership to the adults accompanying us - that their role is to get a cup of coffee and sit in a chair and watch. If I see them interfering, I say let me talk to the PL, it's his job to make sure that gets done (200 feet distance helps a lot). I also tell the PL how to handle the adults - a polite "Mr. Knowitall, I've got this." What you need to do in corporate speak, it is called "buy in" in religion is is called proselytizing. It is a continual discussion with parents and scouts of "this is why boy lead, patrol method is good." Finally, as others have said, moving to boy lead is a process. The first step is telling people what you are doing, the second step is trying to do it, the third step is "start, stop and continue" - evaluate and change. The last step is to keep repeating steps two and three.

I'm not afraid. Our Troop spends a week at Camp Crystal Lake with an ASM named Jason who has a hockey mask and access to the ax yard tools.

Our adults typical cook as a separate group, but we don't try to mimic the boys patrols. We've got a good group of leaders that enjoy each other's company and that enjoy camping and backpacking. As a result, we function like a patrol - a group of friends that work together to do what needs to be done. The boys will learn more from that example than if we tried to mimic the boys with uniforms, patches, yells and flags - which, when you think about it, are poor substitutes for real team building.

Read the definition of chemical fuels - it only includes "gaseous, liquid or gelled fuels." It doesn't include grass, twigs and leaves. Therefore, homemade stoves that burn wood are perfectly acceptable unde G2SS.

WOW. That gives a bad name to lawyers. As a lawyer with knowledge of the intent of the BSA program, I would have written the policy as: A scout can use any tent they would like and, if they wish, not use a tent at all. A scout can share a tent with anyone (consistent with GTSS) or tent by themselves. Scouts are encouraged to choose tent options that are appropriate for the expected conditions, recognizing that scouts learn from making both good and bad decisions. Patrol leaders are encouraged to work with the scouts in their patrol to make sure that scouts understand the benefits and drawbacks of different tenting options and understand how to properly care for tents. But then again, those rules are so common sense, they don't need to be written down.

Cynicism aside, the benefits are worth it. The email from the dad saying his son can't stop talking about how much fun he had as part of the Venture Patrol at camp. The sense of accomplishment that the first year guys got after finishing a strenuous hike that included bouldering and scrambling up rock ledges. Eating the dinner my son cooked for his patrol because it was better than what the Old Goat patrol was serving. Seeing 6 scouts and 2 parents go backpacking for the first time. Having my son go camping in 20 degree weather without me and having a blast. Seeing scouts excited to cook an entire weekend over a pot bellied stove. Seeing the SPL and ASPL be the "cool" Boy Scouts when working with the Webelos 2 on Outdoorsman. The list goes on...

Interesting. I'm not sure that IOLS training would work well at camp... at least the way it was done when I took it. We had six hours day of PowerPoint and then a weekend (Friday, Saturday and Sunday) of camping as a patrol with other attendees while going over the First Class Skills. However, I think that it would be good for teaching more advanced skills like building your own gear , lightweight backpacking gear selection, advanced cooking (foil pack, open fire, Dutch oven and freezer bag cooking), map and compass / orienteering, WFA, survival skills, knives (use, sharpening, etc.), advanced knots, fire starting (LNT fires, one match fires, wood selection, different types of tinder, making fire sticks, etc.). The adults can then work with their boy leaders to teach those skills to their troop.

I wonder what would happen if you asked the scouts to write down what they are supposed to do for their position? Hmmm, another idea for scout leadership training.

It sounds like you are trying to "make" them do what you think they should do by bringing in parents, threatening them about not making Eagle or making them sign a contract. That never works. Upon re-reading what I wrote, I realized that I left out the most important part - get the SM and the youth leaders around a table and then start asking questions. Better yet, ONLY ask questions. OK, you can take notes too and read them back to confirm what the boys decided. Keep asking questions until the boys address all of the issues and have a plan. Richard Covey (author of the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People) says to seek first to understand then to be understood. Can you say you understand the boys frustrations, goals and challenges? do you understand their point of view? Until you do, you shouldn't try to make them understand your point of view.

The most powerful tool you have at your disposal is the ability to ask questions to the youth leaders. "What do you think you need to do to be effective?" "What can I and the SM do to support you?" "What would you like to do this year?" "What do you need to do to get that done?" "What is the best way I can help you accomplish that?" The moment you start talking, lecturing and making threats, the boys will throw up a wall and just hear "wat wa wat wa, wat wa" like in the old Peanuts cartoons. They are put in a position where they have to do what you say. If you ask questions, you are guiding them to think about the situation and come up with their own ideas and solutions. They take ownership and become responsible. Ultimately, do you want to teach them to implement what others want or to take charge and come up with their own ideas and solutions?

G

Hmmmm. I grew up climbing trees and never injured myself. My son on the other hand, broke his arm falling from school playground equipment onto a bed of neatly manicured mulch.

I would expect that most scouts would listen to the SM if he told them that they are not ready for a merit badge or that it would be better not to take that badge at camp. Don't underestimate the power of a discussion.

Even with a lot of the outdoor programs, the approach often puts up barriers between boys and nature. Although I believe in LNT, too often is is taught as a bunch of rules saying DONT. Wilderness Survival is taught as a struggle against nature. The most frequent word a lot of scouts hear is DONT - don't play in the stream, don't get dirty, don't use your knife on that dead branch, dont climb that tree, don't put sticks in the fire, don't skip rocks, dont get wet, etc. I tell scouts (and their parents) that the best part about scouting is that it is the one time you can get dirty and won't get in trouble. I think there should be a tree climbing merit badge. I loan knives (including my 7 inch bushcraft knife) to scouts for cutting and carving (dead wood of course). I encourage them to find things in nature to use as tinder for a fire. I take breaks during backpacking trips to lay down on a meadow, relax on a rock or cool my feet in a stream. I let them eat blueberries and blackberries they find. I encourage them to hike at night, without flashlights. I want them to play in the woods. I can't change the worlds view of nature, but I can change the view of a handful of boys.

Interesting. Before camp out SM meets with the boys and discussed which MBs to take. First years all take First Class Adventure and Swimming. The other boys are guided to take badges that are appropriate to their experience. If they are taking the more difficult badges (archery, riflery, wilderness survival or any of the boating MBs) they are encouraged to take a free period to practice those skills. My second year son took archery, woodcarving, kayaking and first aid. First aid was taught by a MD. He got a partial in archery because he couldn'tget the accuracy requirement. We had a couple of scouts get partials in e-prep because they didn't fulfill the prerequisite of making a emergency kid for their family. The camp required SM sign off on prerequisites that couldn't be done at camp. To sign get sign off, each scout had to meet with me and show me the work or explain what they did consistent with the requirements. Any prerequisite that needed parent approval or was done at home required a parent signature on the prerequisite form. All of the classes were taught by council approved MB counselors who were over 18. I frequently saw the boys writing up outlines and reading the MB books during camp.

I think that having the adults take over the sign off process is the wrong solution. The result is that the boys who incorrectly signed off learn that if they screw up, an adult will take over. The better solution would be to ask the boy leaders whether they think the younger scouts met the requirements. If the boys agree that the younger scouts didn't meet the requirements ask how signing off on the requirements affects those younger scouts and the troop. Then ask what they think they can do to fix the problem in relation to the younger scouts not knowing what they need to know. Then ask what they can do to make sure it doesn't happen again. Doing that the boys will learn to think about consequences of their actions, to understand the value of being trustworthy, to understand servant leadership (i.e. doing right by the younger scouts) , to come up with solutions to their own problems and to take responsibility for making things right. That type of learning is more valuable for the boys than all of the skill requirements for First Class.

To add to the chorus - Two deep leadership on outings is for safety (one adult can leave to get help while the other stays with Scouts) rather than a barrier to abuse. There is no prohibition for one adult being with two scouts (in fact the YPT guidelines encourage that for merit badge conferences and Scoutmaster conferences and for car travel). There also is no prohibition regarding one-on-one contact with your own child. Also, as long as you are at a Scout Camp and out in the open (e.g. on roads and trails in daylight) that is not considered to be one-on-one contact because it is a public place with others around. At camp, I often walk to and from merit badge classes with the leaders taking the opportunity to chat about how things are going. That being said, I think that walking a scout (which is not your son) to the bathroom is something I wouldn't do or permit just because, well it's the bathroom. That's what the buddy system if for. For Tigers, their buddy is their parent.

I've had problems with my white space disappearing - I just assumed it was because I'm using an iPhone or iPad. My first question is why are adults signing off on rank requirements? The older scouts should be signing off, not the adults (with the exception of the scout spirit and possibly POR requirements). That is part of a Troop being Boy Lead. If the boy completed the requirement, then they should get sign off. There is no requirement that a leader (or another scout) see them do it unless the requirement says to show or explain. Nobody can change the requirements from what is there. It shouldnt matter even if the dad or mom orr whomever is pushing them as long as the scout learns, knows and does what is required. My suggestion is to have the scout sit down with one of the boy leaders (or an ASM if the SM won't authorize ithe Troop's boy leaders to signs off on requirements) and show what he knows. Have them take all the time necessary but do this without the dad present (of course following YPT no 1 on 1 contact guidelines). That way you are ensuring that the scout knows or can do the requirement. If you need support for what I just said (Including the part about the boys being able to sign off) see the Guide to Advancement on page 24: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

I have the Platypus gravity filter (with the carbon filter attachment) and love it. It works great, filtering two liters very quickly. And yes, I've used it hiking the AT with our scouts. I bought the one without a "Clean" bag because I already have a Platypus reservoir and itmis a little,less expensive). I saw the same one on sale at REI and bought a second. I now use both "Dirty" bags and am saving the filters for when mine needs replacement. Having the extra dirty bag allows me to fill up both bags with water while on the trail and then filter when I get to camp. The only downside is that it is difficult to fill completely from a stream or spring.

The pack I was Cubmaster for made the hot dogs and hamburgers and supplied the condiments and the lemonade Each family brought a side dish or a dessert.

Barry: When I did SM / ASM outdoor skills training, we were split into patrols and spent the weekend camping and functioning as a patrol. The PowerPoint part of the training was boring, putting the concepts into action as part of a patrol was interesting. When I did WFA training, we were split into groups for the exercises rotating the different roles. My idea takes those experiences and applies BSA principles and methods. 1) Scouting is Outing so be outdoors; 2) Boy Led means that the boys take the lead in the discussion with coaching before hand from the adults; 3) Scouts learn from doing, so there should be a lot of doing; 4) scouting is a game played outdoors - so incorporate games and interesting exercises that keep attention and emphasize points. I haven't done this with scouts... yet. I'm really thinking out loud because our troop is looking to do training differently this year.