Hedgehog

I'll echo what others have said. Entitlement doesn't come from getting things for free, but expecting those things and then doing nothing in return. They can give back through service projects and, if they stick with scouting for the long run, they will give back to others if they continue live the Scout Oath even after they age out. I disagree that scouting is a richer person's activity. If you have a pair of shoes, you can go on a hike. You can have a Troop spend a whole Saturday: 1) learning to tie knots with pieces of a $5 rope; 2) learning first aid with $10 worth of supplies; 3) learning map and compass skills with a map printed off the internet and a $1 compass for each scout; 4) learning cooking skills using less than $20 worth of ingredients for a group of scouts; 5) playing confidence and team building games for free; 6) learning about plants and animals from books in the library or hikes; etc. I think that the scouts spending a day doing any of those activities has them put some skin in the game because they are investing their time and effort. I realize that camping outside can become expensive but there are ways to pick up gear inexpensively. In your case the troop will have to buy the gear. The skin in the game here is that the scouts take care of the equipment. Let them know where the money came from -- give back by doing service projects for those organizations and other organizations so that it isn't a quid pro quo but they learn that service is about giving from what we have (be it time, money or skill) to those that are in need. As your troop becomes more mature, the older boys can give back to the troop by leading, mentoring and training the younger boys. That is the essence of scouting.

To me, the bouncing between A's and B's is part of the continuum of being boy-led. Actually, I tend to see each year start out with a B and the boy leaders grow into those roles. The other part of the continuum is what aspects of the Troop are boy-led. The more aspects the better. ​For example, taking just the running of the weekly meeting, is your (in the generic sense, not directed at Qwazse) troop boy-led to the extent: 1. The boys lead the weekly meetings, meaning they are up front covering everything and have done all the planning on their own and the only adult is sitting in the back of the room watching quietly. 2. The boys lead the weekly meetings, but an adult reminds them to make certain announcements regarding upcoming activities and is there to guide them if the scouts need help (this is probably where our Troop is) 3. The boys lead the weekly meetings, but an adult makes announcements and is there to give them instructions if things aren't going as planned. 4. The boys lead the weekly meetings, but an adult advises them when they are planning the activity by asking questions and providing guidance (I tend to do this with the scouts) 5. The boys lead the weekly meetings but an adult has to approve the activity and is required to be present to make sure everything goes as planned. Another example is outings... is your troop boy-led on outings to the extent that: 1. The boys figure out what they want to do, find the place they want to go, ask an adult to make the reservation, plan the activities, type up the permission slips, collect the checks, arrange for drivers, coordinate cooking and buying of food, prepare and pack the necessary troop gear, unload gear and set up camp, camp away from adult leaders, handle everything that needs to be done for the trip to be a success. 2. The scouts come up with the idea of where they want to go and the adults find several options for the scouts to go and the scouts make the final decision. The adults make the reservation, print the permission slips, collect the checks, arrange for drivers. The scouts arrange for cooking and buying of food. The scouts pack the gear with an adult making sure everything that is necessary is packed (preferably by coaching the scouts in advance of the day of departure). The scouts unload gear and run everything once they get to the destination. (This is where our Troop is). 3. The scouts list ideas of what they want to do, the adults decide where they will go to do several of those activities, The adults handle all the paperwork. The adults appoint a scout to do the shopping and cooking. The adults direct the senior scouts regarding how to supervise packing the gear and remind them what gear needs to be packed. The adults direct the senior scouts regarding how to supervise the younger scouts in setting up camp and regarding what needs to be done once everyone is at the destination. All of the situations in the meeting and outing could be called "boy-led' but there is a significant degree of difference in how much leading the boys are doing. The difference could be from one troop to another, one adult leader to another in the same troop or even dependent on the boy leader.

I think that the two illustrations in the article are there for comparing and contrasting. The first illustration appears to be adult lead - the adults putting up the tent (pole in nose and all that) and the second illustration appears to be boy lead (an adult helping as directed by an older scout). I'm not sure that the article is implying that it is OK to revert back to adult-led but that the troop realized that they hadn't done the groundwork and nobody (adults or scouts) knew what they were doing. I'll give credit where it is due, they didn't give up on boy-lead but decided to do it in a way that would work for their troop. I think that the article is pointing out that boy-lead requires: 1) the boys to be trained before being asked to lead -- not just thrown in the deep end and told to learn to swim; 2) the leaders to be properly trained so they know their role; and 3) the parents to be educated on and indoctrinated into the boy led culture. I also agree with the article that boy-lead is a continuum. In theory, all troops should be boy lead. In practice, a lot of troops that say they are boy-lead are not.

I'm looking forward to: 1. Cross country skiing / snowshoeing and cabin camping in January. 2. Building Quinzees and sleeping in them in February (OK, still working on convincing the boys on this one). 3. 3 day backpacking trip in May (destination to be determined... but its really the journey that matters!). 4. Canoing down the Delaware and then backpacking into summer camp. 5. Being the ASM for the Venture Patrol at Summer Camp (and working with the boys to come up with challenging hikes and overnight trips. 6. 5 day backpacking trip over Labor Day on the AT in Shenandoah. 7. Working with the SM to make the Troop more boy lead. 8. Working with the boys to up the quality of the cuisine on campouts. 9. Perfecting deep frying french fries in a dutch oven 10. Watching my son and his friends grow as scouts

My apologies for misunderstanding. From your first post, I thought the question you asked was along the lines of "what are the core ideals necessary for the Star requirement?" If the questions were more directed to asking him what he learned regarding specific ideals (i.e. leadership, service, etc.), then you and I are on the same page. The remainder of my response was related to what appeared to be your disappointment in how the scout responded and the scout's inability to go beyond listing the requirements. I just don't think that 12 year olds have it in them to do the analysis / thinking / relating you are asking of them. I've noticed this in my son as well as in other scouts -- the ability to extrapolate experiences to draw conclusions or generalizations just isn't well developed. Maybe you and others have had different experiences and I'm setting the bar too low. I'm in agreement with you that age shouldn't matter (my son and a couple of his buddies are on track to be star by the end of the school year) in advancement. I feel that the boys should advance at their own pace and on their own initiative. If some go faster than others, that is fine. I also feel that all the boys should grow through scouting. To me, that is where the ideals and aims and methods of scouting matter the most. As long as all the boys are growing in their skills, knowledge and leadership, it doesn't matter if they are advancing as quickly as others. Finally, I was in no way offended by your post and I hope you took no offense at mine.

As a parent of a 12 year-old and a scout mentor to most of the 11 and 12 year-olds in the Troop, I can tell you that the lack of theoretical response is more the age rather than the maturity. Simply put, 12-year olds aren't able to take the definite (requirements) and extrapolate to the abstract. Give them two more years and you can have all the metaphysical discussions about the meaning of life (that is what makes backpacking with those guys interesting). It is also unfair if you've never had those discussions before with the scouts. My scouts know that leadership means being responsible for others and you start by being responsible for yourself (they hear that a lot the first year at camp). Being "helpful" means doing something when it needs to be done ("if you are sitting around when others are working, you are not doing what you are supposed to be doing"). Service leadership means helping others to get things done. At every opportunity, I'm having discussions with scouts about how to learn and how to lead. Also, you can phrase the questions better. What did you do for your service projects? What did you learn from those projects? What did you do for leadership? What did you learn? How could you improve? What would you tell new scouts who would be in that position?

Have him go over to town hall and interview the receptionist or whomever he can find about why everyone is so busy not to be able to take the time to talk to a scout about local government. Then suggest to him that he write up his interview and send it to the local newspaper. It would make a great story.

I prefer the "Assistant Scoutmaster's 30 Seconds" to provide sound-bites that the kids remember. Two of my favorites which are applicable in this instance are: Scouting is about leadership and leadership is about being responsible for other people. The first step in being responsible for others is learning to be responsible for yourself. (I tell this to both scouts and their parents. The second time I tell a scout, I 'll say the first sentence and the half the second sentence and they will fill in the rest. I rarely have to use it a third time). If your hands are in your pocket or you are sitting down, you aren't doing what you are supposed to be doing. (I use this one when everyone else is busy and someone has either done their job, doesn't know what their job is or doesn't have a job. It is usually followed by a question from the scout along the lines of "what should I be doing?" At that point, I send walk them over to their patrol leader who gladly comes up with a way for them to help. The best is when the scouts start saying it to other scouts.)

Over the summer as a bunch of guys from our troop hiked into summer camp (seriously, how cool is that -- arriving in summer camp with a backpack on having backpacked 16 miles over two days?), one of the guys found a wallet. It had some cash, some gift cards and a library card. No ID. He called the library and got a phone number for the owner. It turned out to be a 13 year old who had lost it the weekend before. That resonated with the boys -- they could have easily have been the one who lost their wallet. The wallet was mailed with a note that it was a Boy Scout that found it and returned it. The best part, none of the adults did or said anything -- the boys knew what to do.

With my son's Cub Scout den, there was a progression. For Tiger, Wolf and Bear, the boys didn't know about the requirements, they were just having fun. For Webelos, the boys were given a list of the requirements (showing which requirements we were going to do) on a separate sheet of card stock and they checked off each requirement as we did it. It seemed like a good transition. Despite what the Pack does for advancement, the crossing over to a Troop is a good time to explain "you've leveled up, things are done differently here..." One other suggestion, is to put Den Chiefs in the Pack, especially around the Webelos level -- they can provide a good role model to the Cubs and can help them be more aware of how they are advancing and how it works in Boy Scouts

I like the Lodge lid lifters and the lid stands. The scouts can use them easily without gloves. Whenever I've seen pliers used, it is typically by an adult. I have a pair of the Lodge red gloves - they work well for picking up the DOs by the handles.

A lot of it comes down to explaining and selling the program. When we have Webelos visit, our SPL talks to the parents about the program while the Webelos get assigned to patrols for the night. When we have crossovers, the SPL or Guide explains advancement to them. I'm around talking to the new parents about what it means to be boy lead, the coffee cup style of management, how the shift to Boy Scouts mirrors what the boys are doing in school -- taking more responsibility, how scouting is a safe place to fail, how scouting is about leading and leading is being responsible for others -- and how being responsible for yourself is the first step in becoming a leader and why I think all of that is important to today's kids. I've never had a parent disagree - most of them are fully on board with pushing their children to be independent. I've had parents approach me about advancement. I simply tell them that their son should talk to me or their patrol leader or their patrol guide. I also explain why -- part of advancement is learning how to meet goals without being told what you have to do. When the boys approach me, I pull in a PL, the SPL or ASPL and have the leaders work with them -- that way I get a two for one bonus -- the leaders get to show leadership and the younger scout gets put on the right track. I also explain to parents that the boys advance at different speeds and I'd rather have a boy advance slower on their own initiative that being pushed to advance before they are ready.

I wear the Indiana Jones type hat. Now if I can just find he matching whip.

Have a bonfire and campout open to all boys in first through fifth grade and their families. Use your local school to advertise (ours used to let us send flyers home with the kids but now it posts events and invitations on its calendar page). Have each scout invite his friends. Offer s'mores at the fire and hot chocolate in the morning. Find someone to tell camp fire stories - there are a ton on the net and I'd be glad to post links to my favorites. Have another adult arrange skits for the boys (MacScouter has a whole book you can download). The current boys can do more elaborate skits and then you can have the new boys do simple skits. Get a bunch of jokes from boys life to get the ball rolling and encourage the boys to tell jokes. Have anyone attending send you an email to RSVP. Talk to the adults one on one about the program. Invite the kids (with two follow up emails to the adults) the next meeting where you will be doing another cool activity - how about making paper airplanes and throwing them from a second story window or balcony? Tell them to bring a friend. Run it like a Cub Scout meeting - flag ceremony and all. Talk to the parents about how Cub Scouts is the best way to spend time with your son doing fun things together (as opposed to just watching). Explain that scouting is something fathers and sons can do together that creates a strong bond and the best memories. Give them the registration form and paperwork. Announce that the next meeting will be all about snow. Encourage everyone to come and to bring a friend. But don't tell them anything more. They have to come to find out. Do the closing ceremony and end with a snack. The next meeting make instant snow (Google it - I've never used it without the kids going crazy) . Make paper snowflakes. Go over the Bobcat requirements (see how I stuck that in). Play snow trivia jeopardy. Do a Frozen sing along. End with snow cones (you can get a machine to make them and the syrup for less than $50) or snow themes cupcakes or cookies. Announce that the next is about having fun at night. Tell them to bring a flashlight and a friend. Learn about stars, play flashlight tag, learn about nocturnal creatures and give out the new Bobcat badges.

Talk to the SPL, explain the situation, and ask him what he thinks should be done. The answer will be better than anything we can come up with.

The advice you are reading isn't just theory. It is how successful troops are run. I'll be honest. Nobody learns leadership through someone else's example. Not boys and not adults. We were talking about the saying that if you teach someone to fish you feed them for a lifetime. A scout asked, "once you teach them, how do you actually get them to fish for themselves?" The adults stopped for a minute and thought. Our reply was, "you stop fishing for them. " The answer to your question is that there is nothing the committee should do except encourage the SMs and ASMs the learn how to implement a boy-led troop. My philosophy is that a leader's role is to guide by asking questions. For planning purposes have a separate PLC meeting. Here would be my questions: What do you ideas to do you have for our future meetings? For each idea, what sort of activities would you do? Out of those ideas, which meetings do you want to do for each month? Now that we have the themes, let's plan the first month. What activities should we do? Out of those ideas which ones do we want to do? For each idea, what needs to be done to implement it and who is going to do it? This is the process the boys in our troop go through to plan every meeting - except the SPL or PL (depending if it is a troop or patrol activity) is the one asking questions. I sit there watching until the PL asks me what I think and I respond, "you are in charge, it's your decision. " Don't focus on advancement. Scouts is not school - it is not about learning and tests and passing. Our boys' theme for this month is Duct Tape. Each patrol runs a program regarding the theme. One patrol showed how to make duct tape cups and had a relay race moving water from one bucket to another (guess what I'm going to say when a scout tells me he forgot his cup on the next campout? ). Another patrol is doing first aid using duct tape - blisters, cuts, splints, etc. our theme for October was lashings - two patrols collaborated and used their two meeting to build catapults that were used to fire water balloons at me and another ASM (my sons patrol almost hit me). Imagine the reaction of the Webelos that were visiting our troop that week. The theme for December is Vikings - I can wait to see how they tie it into scouting. These are ideas the boys came up with. All we did was supply ther rope for lashings and the duct tape. Ask yourself why the boys don't have T-1st but do have merit badges? Because merit badges are interesting and the basic skills are taught like school. Did I mention that for the lashings theme the boys taught a bunch of knots and the required lashings. The younger scouts didn't think they were doing "advancement" - they thought they were building a catapult. With your a Troop, you need someone to train the trainers. I don't have a problem with a scout (who has already passed that requirement) asking me "Mr. Hedgehog, is this the right way to tie a sheet bend?" If it's not, we get a book and review it. The older scouts master the skills by teaching them. Just remember, it is easier to start out boy-lead and continue than to start out adult-led and change.

I'll take my Marmot Helium 15 degree down bag over synthetic any day. It weighs just over 2 pounds and compresses smaller than a Nerf football. I've never had a problem with condensation inside (that's what zippers are for) or outside (well ventilated tent equals no condensation inside). Even if there is moisture, it has a DWR coating so the moisture wouldn't effect the down. My 12 year old son has a 20 degree synthetic North Face Cats Meow bag. It weighs about a half pound more (not bad for a synthetic), was around $100 less expensive, but only compresses to around 14 x 7 inches.

Sosh's post is right on. Avoid cotton. This includes underwear, t-shirts, sweatshirts and socks. The only cotton allowed is a bandana (and the 800 count Egyptian cotton pillow case over my down backpacking pillow). Always have separate clothes for sleeping (they will be dry and will not have food odors if you are in bear country). Dress in layers - the space between the layers will keep you warm - use a base layer and the synthetic sweat pants and sweatshirt if it is real cold. I typically sleep in just a wool base layer (with the weight varying on the temperature) or a pair of compression tights if we are backpacking (great for sore muscles). Figure that a tent adds around 10 degrees (feels like more if you are dealing with wind chill). A four season tent will be even warmer. Have a sleeping bag and pad that are suitable for the temperatures you are going to encounter. I have a 50/70 degree bag and a 20 degree bag. You can cool a warmer bag by partially unzipping the zippers. You also can increase your temperature by adding a hat and socks. I see no problem using a down sleeping bag - it is lightweight and warm. I also like the self inflating and air pads - provided they have a high R (insulation) value - because of how easy they pack. Finally, eat before sleeping. Cold weather camping is why God invented those single serving Tastycake pies and prepackaged chocolate cupcakes. And yeah, buy a yellow Nalgene bottle if you typically need to visit the latrine during the night.

To steal a marketing slogan, just do it. Or better yet, set up the tents and they will come. Even if you only get a couple of scouts the first time, there will be more the next time. Plan two events a year and put them in the calendar. Remind people of the events well in advance. As others said, have people come for the picnic dinner even if they won't camp out. There is nothing more gratifying than seeing a kid plead with his parents to camp out and the parent promising that "we'll get a tent and do it next time. "

I've got a Marmot Helium 15 degree bag and love it. It weights 2 pounds and stuffs down to 6 inches by 4 inches. It's never been wet because it is in its stuff sack and in my pack which is covered with a silnylon cover if it is raining. Nonetheless, the newer bags have down that is treated with something that makes it water resistant. I got mine at an end of the season sale. There are lots of good websites that give 20% off coupons.

The key here is that the program need to reflect how people learn. Nobody can learn a knot in one sitting and remember it forever. Same with first aid skills. There needs to be a "D" added to the EDGE method for "Do it again and again." Our boys this year decided to do a knot of the month in their patrol meetings. We adults just had to get them rope - they will cut it and fuse it. The boys do First Aid as a theme for one month each year - they learn the skills, they relearn the skills, they learn them again to teach them and so on. If you have the boy leaders (in our troop it is PLs, APLs and Guides) sign off, you set expectations for them - simply put their job is to sign off only if they are convinced the younger scout know their stuff. As for Eagle, I tell my son that attaining the rank isn't as important as what HE chooses to learn and do in getting there.

There are a lot of good cook books out there. Tim and Christine Conner's "Scout" series - the Outdoor, Backpacking and Dutch Oven books are great. Another good book is "Fix it in Foil". Lodge has a great cast iron cookbook in addition to the one that comes with their Dutch oven. Also, Check out the Freezer Bag Cooking cookbook and the recipies at trailcooking.com. All that brings up the question that Sydney and Stosh asked - why do we need another cook book? Wouldn't a reference book on methods or a step by step course be better? Oh, and the last time I had fresh baked blueberry muffins was on a backpacking trip in June using a backpacking stove - although they were from a mix, they tased real good with my coffee.

Stosh I think supporting and coddling are different. My response to "I can't" is "I wouldn't be asking you if I didn't think you could do it." Then I would ask them why they couldn't do it. Then I would encourage them to try, letting them know that trying and not getting 100% is better than not trying. At the end, I circle back with my favorite saying "argue your limitations and they are yours to keep." In the end, I feel like I've provided them with a framework for overcoming "I can't" as they progress through life.