Hedgehog

Jeff: As long as popcorn is in line with the guidelines I posted above (only a portion to the scout -- some to the unit and some to council/national) , it should be OK because the benefit is arguably insubstantial. I think you idea of a campership fund is good... unless the only people who get camperships are those that did the fundraising -- then it just looks like a subterfuge (or as the IRS sas, form over substance). The private benefit is still there is the "account" is a spreadsheet divying up the amounts in the Troop's account (see above posts for secondary analysis on substantiality) It really doesn't matter if you think there is a private benefit. Rather it only matters if the IRS thinks so. Any scout account is a private benefit based on my interpretation of the statute, regulations and case law. As discussed above, even if there is a private benefit it is permissible if it is insubstantial. Tax exempt organization have lost their tax exempt status for having individual fundraising accounts. So you won't be arrested, but your chartered organization's tax exempt status could be in jeopardy. So, in my view, there is a private benefit (which would be the same as if it reduced fees for a Cub Scout campout). It is much better that the pack is paying an expense rather than giving it to the scouts and saying "I hope you use it for something scout related." If the troop is part of the same CO, there is no problem in transferring funds (the Pack's funds belong to the CO and the Troops funds belong to the CO because the CO "owns" both of them). If it is not part of the CO, I think that the expenditure is consistent with the pack's mission to develop youth though scouting -- after all, most packs are viewed as sources of boy scouts. But this is a grey area. In the Bryan on Scouting post, http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/12/03/individual-scout-accounts/it said: “If the unit is part of the same chartered organization, I certainly see no problem with that,†McGowan says. “The chartered organization owning both units, no problem. If we now talk about changing chartered partners, the IRS has not issued any guidance.†Sorry I couldn't be more definitive.

I'm in complete agreement. One of my favorite Baden-Powel' attributed quotes is “Scouting is a game for boys under the leadership of boys under the direction of a man.†Thank you for the ideas and encouragement. I like the idea of a campout that weekend -- I'm pretty sure some ribs and corn bread done in a Dutch Oven with some cole slaw and apple sauce on the side would be a good draw -- with Dutch Oven apple pie and brownies for dessert. I like the idea of doing it outdoors. When I did UofS two years ago, I enjoyed the activities that you could actually do something rather than those just sitting and listening. Eating something is an additional benefit. I haven't done much with tree saws (although the boys did some at the camporee last weekend). My favorite is when the two older guys started a contest on a campout to see who could saw through a branch the quickest. However, I have taught a bunch of the boys how to baton and chop wood with my 7 inch Ontario RD7 -- I guess that is why my son wants a Becker BK-9 for Christmas.

It is ironic that the biggest advocate of boy-led doesn't believe it can retain scouts. Nonetheless, thank you for insinuating that our troop isn't boy-led as it should be. We do encourage the boy leaders to check up on the new guys and keep them engaged at the weekly meetings. Gosh, maybe we should just ignore our boy leaders and see if they figure it out. I do give a talk on backpacking gear and how to make good decisions in buying gear. Maybe I should let the 11 year olds figure that out the hard way. I do provide a list of things to bring on camp outs and to pack for summer camp in an e-mail to the scouts and their parents. Maybe I should just let their moms come up with the list. I do ask the new scouts how they are doing on campouts and at camp. I guess I should just ignore them, especially when they are sitting by themselves on the edge of camp on the verge of tears. It will make them stronger. Let me take last weekend as an example. I arrived 10 minutes late to the departure. The SPL, PLs and QMs already had the cars packed. I did have to encourage two scouts to get their packs in a car as it was starting to rain. I then did a headcount with the SPL to make sure everyone was there. When we stopped at a convenience store, I comforted a boy who was getting car sick, bought him a bottle of water and made the decision to have him ride in my car (which based on my car and driving style would be a calmer ride). When we got to the camporee, I found the SPL and told him we needed to check in. I gave him the binder with the rosters, receipts, schedules and maps (yes, I printed them because they were forwarded to me and I was able to print multiple copies on a laserjet printer at work). He checked in and then got the PLs and they took the boys up to the campsite while I drove my car up with the gear (even made my own son hike it in despite him asking for a ride ). I showed the SPL where our site was and he told the PLs where to have their scouts unload the troop gear and set up their tents. After they made sure the tents were set up, people either went to sleep or hung out. SPL and I went to leaders meeting, learned nothing new and went to sleep. Next morning, I gave the SPL the following instructions: "There are enough schedules in the binder for each PL and APL to have one and enough maps for each scout to have one. The hats we got last night for the scouts are in my car. The boys are supposed to travel around as patrol. A Patrol's APL has to leave around 10:00 and will be back around 3. B Patrol's APL is going to make lunch for the Cub Scout den he is Den Chief for and then go around with them in the afternoon. You can go around the camporee with either patrol. You are in charge. My job is to make sure that the rest of the adults don't interfere." Based on some of the skit suggestions that scouts had, I did tell the SPL that the skits the boys were preparing for the campfire needed to be appropriate (no political themes, no potty jokes and nothing that could offend people). His response was (as I"ve trained him to do) "Don't worry, I've got this Mr. Hedgehog." I did give one patrol the extra boxes of Macaronni and Cheese I had in the adult box because the grubmaster forgot to buy some. I also asked one of the PLs to help a new scout with the cooking because he was struggling. I did (despite protests from the SPL and PLs - "What happened to Boy-Led Mr. Hedgehog?") require the troop to attend the half hour Scout's Service after dinner. The next morning, I cooked French Toast for one scout who had special bread because of a gluten allergy because the adults were also having French Toast. Probably should have had him do it, but both his and the adults were on the griddle at the same time. We packed up, did start, stop continue (led by the SPL) and came home. I did help the new Quartermaster inventory the patrol boxes for the first time after we got home. I"m pretty sure that despite a couple of thing I could have done better, most outside observers would classify our troop as boy led. That being said, I'm honestly getting sick and tired of defending my skils as a leader. I'm not sure we are talking about the same skills. I'm talking about things like empathy, understanding, compassion and knowing when to sympathize and when to push the boys harder. When to say, it is OK if you don't do that and when to say stick with it you can make it. Much of it is a matter of style -- what works for me and my boys won't work for others. Somehow I can't see you making a joke about a scout clogging a flushie toilet after three days backing at at Court of Honor, discussing the finer points of Monty Python on a 13 mile hike or giving the older scouts a hard time for being afraid of spiders (think 6 foot tall scout and half inch spider). It seems you are thinking of listing the issues that can arise -- sort of like how they instruct leaders at summer camp to deal with homesickness. That of course can be taught: 1) blisters, 2) fatigue; 3) failure to pack the proper food (i.e. not enough calories or carbohydrates); 4) failure to drink enough water; 5) the effect of being around the same people 24 hours a day for a week; 5) exhaustion; 6) homesickness; 7) damaged equipment; 8) sore muscles; 9) getting tired of eating Cliff Bars; 10) adults needing a drink stronger than water; 11) having halucinations about hamburgers; 12) forgetting what a flushie toilet looks like; 13) getting poison ivy from not having a flush toilet; 14) being tired of being tired; 15) wondering who's idea it was not to bring underarm deodorant; 16) contemplating stealing the donkey in the nearby field and having him carry your pack; 17) etc.

Been there, done that. On our 50 miler this summer, each of us (except maybe our SPL) hit our own walls. Blisters on day one from shoes not tied tightly enough, blisters on day two from having done 15 miles in 2 days, sore legs, 1,000s of feet of pointless ups and downs, an adult (me) who packed too much in his pack (fear is heavy), long days on the trail, a scout on day three who says he didn't want to go in the first place, two adults who pushed their limits of endurance to the point where they were moving only through sheer determination, one scout who lost it on the last day because he couldn't take anymore. I'm not sure you can teach those skills -- it comes from a lifetime of learning.

I haven't seen a significant drop off by crossing over scouts in our unit. Over the last three years, there were 1 scout out of around 28. He joined on crossing over because his parents wanted him to, never went on a campout and didn't return the following September. Any boy joining our Troop KNOWS it is boy-led. Our guys are proud of it and tell the Webelos when they visit. I've heard the kids tell their parents after the visit about how cool that is. We have found that the new guys love it when they are stuck in a patrol at our weekly meetings from day one (the PLs -- not so much because by March they were just getting their patrol running smoothly) I think the KEY is that we get the new guys out on one or two campouts before the end of the school year. Also, we have around 70% of the crossovers attend summer camp. Get them outdoors and get them hooked. That being said, the transition for the new guys does have some adult support. They (and their parents) know that the adults have their backs. I like to think that we act as liaisons. They come to us with a question (that is what they are trained to do in Cubs) and we refer them to an older scout. I joke a lot with the boys, "obviously, you've mistaken me for someone in charge... we're boy-led, he's in charge" or "See, it says "Boy Scouts" on my shirt... I'm not a Boy... Ask one of your Boy leaders"). I also talk to them about leadership... "leadership is about being responsible for others, the first step is to learn to be responsible for yourself." There also are a lot of times that the boys need adult encouragement -- especially at summer camp. I'd like to think that that there was more to the senior boys rejoicing when I showed up at summer camp mid-week by jumping up and down and yelling "Mr. Hedgehog is here!" that the fact that I brought the Dutch Ovens, the makings for dump cakes and marshmallows. It is only through adult leadership that boy-led thrives. We need to know when to push independence and when to say "let me help you." We need to be there when the new scout breaks down in tears (or worse, clams up and walks away) to steer them back on track and we need to be there when they accomplish the longest 5 mile hike they have ever done with a high-five. The older boys are watching and they will mimic that behavior. The younger boys will remember and in a couple of years understand what servant leadership is.

So, I"m now thinking along the lines of having a "track" at University of Scouting for "Adventure" for both adults and scouts: Backpacking Gear (1.5 hours) Backcountry Cooking (.5 hours) Backpacking Trek Planning and Adventures (1.0) Canoeing / Kayaking / Rafting (1.0 hour) 100 Hikes and Adventures (1.0 hour) The last three classes would include ideas of where to go and what to do -- even having the participants make suggestions. My goal is to give adults the basics and get them excited about doing some of these things. Heck, I can even work in discussions of how this works in boy-led (I remember a couple of comments on the fact that I don't have a map on a trek -- just the boys) and how to work with the boys in planning the events. Add in a resource guide -- checklists, website links to trail organizations, etc. The best part is I can get the guys from my Troop to do the presentations -- no better way to showcase boy-led.

@@Stosh, what was the most exciting thing your troop did in their outdoor program last year? Ours was the 25 mile bike ride to a scout camp, camping overnight and then riding 25 miles back. No, maybe it was the day at the COPE course followed by a day rock climbing on a real rock wall. Hang on... I forgot about the canoeing, camping on an island, canoing some more and then backpacking. Oh, what about the campout on the beach with the bonfire. Now, its got to be the 50 mile backpacking trek in the mountains of New Hampshire. Or was it the sea kayaking trip? Some were scout's ideas, others came from the leaders. All were chosen by the boys among options on a list developed by the PLC. All of the logistics were arranged by adults (getting the campsites, renting the canoes and kayaks, arranging for service projects, etc.) but all of the outings were executed by the scouts. This year, the scouts want to do whitewater rafting, sailing, horseback riding and an overnight on a boat. I had 19 guys camping with me last weekend at a Camporee that my son thought sounded cool so he brought it to the PLC's attention and they decided to do it. So what I"m saying actually has worked to make our Troop's outdoor program more exciting and more boy-led.

There is a difference between theory and practice. Boys can only handle that onus if they have been trained. They can only be trained by older scouts if the older scouts have experienced it. If there is no experience in using your imagination to determine what is possible, you will be stuck with the same as last year. So my first step would be to get adults interested and to develop skills. If an adult isn't interested and doesn't have the skills, there is no way the Troop is going canoing, kayaking, snowshoeing, backpacking, rock climbing, etc. The adult's inability kills boy led. Second step is to present options and ideas of what is possible. How many times have I heard, "wait, we can do that?" Those ideas generate more ideas from the boys - COPE, fishing, horseback riding, sleeping on a sailboat, etc. If you have adults start the idea process and have adults willing to put the boys ideas into motion -- then you get a strong boy-led outdoor program. The third step is to do it. I think it is OK if the adults take the lead in planning the first couple of outings. Then you start to shift it to more and more boy-led until the boys plan the entire outing (as my son is going to do with next summer's week-long backpacking trip). If a Troop doesn't have adults that are excited about the outdoor program, the Troop won't have an exciting outdoor program. Telling the boys they can do whatever they want to -- when the reality is that they are limited by their adults excitement and training is a lie.

@@Stosh -- I agree. The necessary leadership for more adventurous outings includes what I'd call technical competence and adult leadership skills (what you call understanding boys). The second part can only be learned by experience working with the boys I started as a Boy Scout leader with not much more experience than hiking and boating (row and sail boats) around our summer home when I was a kid, a handful of camp outs as a kid (maybe three not in a back yard), two car camping trips a year as a Cub Scout leader (if it didn't get rained out) and an interest in learning more. Heck, I thought that adventure was what Boy Scouts was about. In the past 2 1/2 years, I've camped around 60 nights and hiked or backpacked more than 200 miles -- the vast majority being with scouts and the rest with my son. I've learned to kayak and canoe, I've read survival guides, I've learned how to baton wood and start a fire under any conditions, I've leared how to cook gourmet meals with a dutch oven or a backpacking stove. Based on my interest in adventure, our Troops's outdoor program kicked it up a notch. We are now training the next set of adult leaders in both competence and understanding boys and boy-led by having them accompanying us on car camping trips and more adventurous outings. So I get what you are saying. My real question is -- what can we do to help other troops kick-start their adventure program?

Living in New Jersey, I'm used to bugs, but I don't use a bug net in either my tarp or hammock. Why? Because I"m so covered with DEET that bugs don't come near me. If he bug spray works during the day, it will work at night. Troop is lookng at these tents for lightweight: http://www.tarptent.com/double-rainbow.html For backpacking, I have this: http://www.rei.com/product/865393/big-agnes-fly-creek-ul-2-tent It works well for my son and me, but you really have to like the person you are with. I used a hammock on our 50 mile. I have the ENO Double Nest. It is amazingly comfortable. I have a fly to go over it, but didn't use it the whole week because the weather was clear with minimal humidity. I have used the fly and it works great during torrential rainstorms.

I'm not delusional in that a weekend will get them fully trained... just get them interested enough to go and learn more. As for handbooks, the BSA handbook is worthless. The Fieldbook is a lot better, but I'm go toward specific books on topics like backpacking and survival. I think most adults would have a hard time ego-wise learning from a 13 to 16 year old. I agree that in-depth training is dictated by what the boys want but we all have to start somewhere. What you call generic training, I call providing the basic building blocks. As for understanding boys, I'm not sure that can be taught. I hadn't hear about Powderhorn -- it sounds exactly like what I was thinking about. I think that T-1st is the basics and I learned most of that in IOLs. My idea was something more advanced. You lost me after hello. I was hoping that this would be something that would get the adults more motivated to go in the outdoors. Oh well, I thought it was a good idea. I'm now going to go order some thowing knives and tomahawks for my son and I to play with in the back yard so I can be competent to supervise the activity on the next campout.

Wow. With all the talk in other threads about a lack of adults with experience in the outdoors, I didn't expect such negative reactions. My understanding is that Wood Badge is more management training than outdoor adventure. I agree as to the linked program for scouts. I told my son about it when I first heard of it at my IOLS training. We were both excited. Fast forward two and a half years -- my son is 13 and Star. I asked him if he wanted to go and his response was "I could teach all that stuf." He's right on that. He also said that it should be for Second Class scouts. I agree. There are some things in there that aren't part of T-2-1 and I would include more of those things in the program. My focus wasn't on the scouts but on getting adults open to more adventure so to make programs more interesting. Agreed, but how do we teach those skills to adults in units that don't have an effective outdoor program? I guess my thought was to have it be something that would get the adults interested and provide a base level of competence. I understand that you think that adults should be able to earn ranks, but that is beyond my power to make that happen. OK, that was my IOLS training which was really well done and covered all the T-1st skills -- except maybe the one handed bowline. I'm interested in going beyond this to get adults excited about the outdoor program.

For an individual activity, I would have a portion (we do 15%) of the receipts (which is around 25% of the profit) go to Scout Accounts. By my estimate 25% of the profit goes to the unit and the remaining 50% goes to National/Council. One of the problems in the Capital Gymnastics Tax Court case was that the benefit was dollar for dollar and no money whet to the general organization. We also have a threshold that you have to sell a certain amount ($100) before you get a percentage. If you do that, I think (for what my opinion is worth) you can apply the amount credited to the scout (the 15% of proceeds) toward camp and charge the parents for the rest. Here there is a private benefit that arguable is insubstantial based on the unit and chartered organization's operations. If you do a fundraiser like a pretzel or doughtnut sale to fund a specific activity -- like a high adventure trip -- I would require everyone going on the trip to participate (e.g. everyone has to spend an hour either setting up, running the sale or cleaning up) and split it among those going on the trip. Under this scenario, all of the profits go to the troop to offset everyone's cost of the trip (resulting in no private benefit).

Under IRS rules, the structure you had would be a private benefit because the ISA offsets personal expenses of the scout that otherwise would be paid by the parent. The question then becomes whether the benefit is "iinsubstantial" I can' give an opinion on that because I don't have enough facts about your troop. Look at my prior posts to see my thoughts on what my troop is doing and why I think that is not substantial. The obedience issue is related to federal laws... not just some random rule. I"m not saying what you are doing will cause your charted organization to lose its tax exempt status. What I"m saying is that you need to make that determination based on the facts and the law... not what you think the right answer should be. Unfortunately, the tax laws don't always come up with what is the right answer -- but that doesn't mean we can ignore them. Seattle: I apologize if I came across as saying you were dishonest. I don't know you and can't make that judgment. I was reacting to what I sensed was an "I'll ignore the law if I don't agree with it" attitude. I realize that you were ignoring my advice which you didn't think had much weight coming from an anonomous Hedgehog on the internet. That's understandable. My point is that we have to be aware that these rules are out there and can affect our chartered organizations. If you read my posts, I'm not saying that Scout Accounts can NEVER be used. What I"m saying is that if any funds are set aside for a particular scout, then you have a private benefit. If there is a private benefit you then need to detrmine whether it is "substantial." I indicated that I concluded that our unit's use of Scout Accounts did not result in a substantial private benefit based solely on a comparision of the amounts raised for National / Council and the unit to the amounts raised for an individual scout and a larger comparison of those amounts to the overall budget of our chartered organization. I also mentioned that some benefit could be considered the cost of fundraising. I would also add to the analysis the role that earning money to pay your own way plays in Scouting. My son fulfilled one of the T-1st requirements through selling popcorn and applying what he earned to summer camp. I also would consider that the funds are being spent in a way that is within the goals of scouting (i.e. helping scouts go on outdoor trips). Ultimately, we are not so far off in our views -- I just want people to understand that there are better and worse ways of doing Scout Accounts. If people don't want any hassle, then don't do it. If you are going to do it, here are some of my suggestions: 1. All funds are in kept the unit's name. 2. Funds can only be transferred between units within the same chartered organization 3. Only a portion of the proceeds should be set aside for the scout engaging in the fundraising activity if the fundraisesr is for general purposes. The rest should go to the unit (or if it is popcorn, a portion also goes to national/council) 4. If the fundraiser is for a specific trip (Philmont) have the activity be something that everyone can (and is encouraged if not required to participate) in and apply the proceeds equally to reduce everone's cost. 5. If a scout's family is financially challenged, it is ok to provide them with additional assistance 6. Scout Accounts can't be used to for personal purchases such as backpacks or hiking boots or ever given to scouts when they leave. 7. Scout Accounts can be used to fund Eagle projects 8. Incentives are permissible as a cost of sales -- be them at the National, Council or unit level. Those suggestions should get the unit close to the Scout Accounts being "insubstantial" but it really depends on a lot of other factors. Our unit has around $1,500 in Scout Accounts and around $8,000 in other funds. There might be a different result in terms of substanitality if the amounts were switched.

In a lot of recent threads, folks have been bemoaning the lack of outdoor skills in adults. To me the answer it to develop a training program for adults and scouts - run the right way. My inspiration is here: http://training.ppbsa.org/woodsman/WOODSMAN'S%20THONG%20Flyer%202015.pdf I think that is a great program, but it seems more like classroom learning in an outdoor setting. My sense would be to do a 3 hour gear and food lecture a couple of weeks before the weekend. Allow the adults and scouts time to get gear. Then take a three day backpacking trek. There is no better teacher than doing it. Ho would you run such a training? What skills would you teach? Do you think folks would attend? If we came up with a syllabus, would you offer to lead it for your council?

Check out Bear Paw Wilderness Designs. I have one of the flat silnylon tarps with "wings" that act as doors - http://bearpawwd.com/tarps/flat_tarps.php I've been thinking of getting a Bug Bivy - http://bearpawwd.com/net_tents/bug_bivy.php There are a lot of other tarp like tents that can hold a net insert. Also check out Hexamid from ZPacks - http://www.zpacks.com/shelters.shtml and Tarptent - http://www.tarptent.com/index.html

That is what I keep telling my wife when I buy more gear... you need the appropriate gear for the adventure. And that scene in Harry Potter with Dobby and the cast iron skillet. When I mention that, it takes a minute for the boys to remember. Now I'm hungry thinking about what we cooked in cast iron this weekend: Eggs and Canadian bacon, italian sausages with sauteed onions, Italian style short-ribs (in a Dutch Oven), apple pie (DO) and French Toast (Cast Iron Skillet) with sausages.

I agree on the difference in youth leadership styles. Planning is lacking in boys, but I've seen them perform under pressure and demonstrate the skills they've learned. I'll have to trust you on the rest of it. I told the boys that if they planned it, I'm make the call. They are thinking AT from Delaware Water Gap to Backpacker's site / Sunfish Pond -- about 5 miles in and can reverse and take a different trail out. I like your take on the differences in how boys and girl's leadership develops. My son sees the girls he is friends as just another friend -- they all share some common interests and then there is the catagory of what he calls "girl things" -- like hair, make-up, etc. Actually, that isn't a concern I would have. I suspect that there are better opportunities for that sort of stuff than out in the wilderness with a light sleeping adult in a hammock. Plus, my experience is that everyone is so exhausted on outings that sleeping is a higher priority than anything else -- most of our guys are asleep by 10:00 on campouts and shortly after 9:00 on backpacking treks. As for the public displays of affection, I've seen the razzing the older boys give each other on that so I think that would also be a non-issue.

Q: How many adults does is requried to take a group of scouts on an overnight trip? A: Two. One to advise the boys and one to keep the other adults out of the way. When I took my IOLS training, the Council where I took it advertised this: http://www.nnjbsa.org/document/woodsmans-thong-training-by-patriots-path/115623 I think that is along the lines of what you had in mind. My then 11 year old son was very excited at taking the class in two years. My now 13 year old son and I talked about it at the end of the summer and his response (after camping 55 nights, backpacking close to 100 miles and hiking another 100) was, "I could teach that class... I've done all of that. It should be something kids do after First Class, not after Star." I've often thought that a version of the program would be good for our council to adopt -- even better if older scouts can teach the adults. I have a similar goal when I do my introduction to backpacking class for Webelos and new Scouts (and their parents).

So here is my $.02. Up until around 7th grade, boys want nothing to do with girls. My 13 year old son and his best friend now have two girls they hang out with (the ones who complain that the Girl Scouts don't do anything fun). On the way home from our 50 mile backpacking trek, the boys were texting the girls debating whether the girls could have made the trip. Although I have to agree with the boys (we all struggled at times on the trek and the girls have never been backpacking before), the talk soon turned to doing a backpacking trip with the four of them (and one of the girls dads). When you add those girls interest to the adult leaders in the Troop who have daughters, I do see an opportunity for starting a venture crew (although it may meet with some resistance for shifting my attention and the adventure component away from the troop). I suspect those are the type of girls that would join Boy Scouts -- not the popular ones but the ones that like the outdoors. However, I would keep Boy Scouts just boys. Our troop is over 50 boys and thriving. I love the fact that the boys can be boys. Girls bring a different dynamic. Our group of goofballs can be themselves without worrying about what girls think or do. From watching my son work with girls on homework assignments, they are more organized and detail oriented and, as a result, they take over the leadership of the project. The boys response is, "if they want to, I'll let them ... it is easier." I don't think that changes until around 10th or 11th grade. I think the presence of girls would reduce the opportunities for boys to find their ability to lead. I loved this past weekend seeing the SPL truly lead without me saying a word, seeing the PLs taking charge and seeing my son lead as an APL.

After 22 years of practicing as a tax litigation attorney, I've learned never to think I know everything.

Wow. It's 6:00 am and 39 degrees outside. I'm snug inside my down sleeping bag in a tent. 19 Boys in tents around me all sleeping soundly after a spending yesterday at a Camporee they decided they wanted to go to - seriously, who wouldn't want to this tomahawks? There are four other ASMs with me. We had a blast hanging out in the campsite while the patrols did their thing and then having short ribs and polenta for dinner with apple pie for dessert. At our meeting next week the SPL starts the meeting with calling up the boys who went and asking what the best part of the trip was. More later ... I've got to go make coffee.

The error in the thinking is that the expansion of members means the expansion of the program. As a lawyer, I've found I"ve been more successful in "marketing" my practice by focusing on what I do best, rather than trying to do anything for anyone. It is better for Scouting have fewer members if it is focused on building character throught the outdoors than having more members by trying to expand the program into STEM. I'm all for science and math, especially with a son who is interested in engineering. But this summer he will go to a two week long robotics camp at the local college and spend another two weeks learning computer programing. He goes to scout to spend a week in the outdoors. I recognize that Scouting in the U.S. has always had a vocational aspect to it, but to be honest, that isn't the draw for kids -- it is the adventure with their buddies.

I tossed three Teflon griddles that were chipping and flaking after my first campout with the troop. Gave the boys a choice of replacing them with the same or getting cast iron griddles. They went cast iron and never went back. We still have the Teflon frying pans which they only use for eggs and bacon and don't get too hot. I'm still lobbying to replace them with cast iron. Open mouth, insert foot.

We have something that looks very much like the first set I linked to. They are beat up but still work for boiling water and we have no problem throwing them over a grate over a fire. The others are what I"m looking at to get to replace the Adult Patrol's gear. I haven't tested them but will probably get them at REI since you can return it within a year for any reason at all.