ParaSloth

So much for "Trustworthy" on behalf of the members not following the guidelines. Same will be true - maybe moreso - in the Cubs as Pack Leaders struggle to obtain den leaders to lead the girl dens (not to mention the mandatory women leaders that have to be present at meetings and campouts). They will put the dens together and have them separate on paper only. The frustration is that I believe this is where National wants to be (fully co-ed), and they are not being honest with themself or the membership by enacting this "step", waiting for it to fail, then changing policy to where they wanted it to be in the first place.

A few random thoughts: Girls: I admit I'm very right-thinking, and the thought of girls in BSA turned me off at first. But the more I think about it the more I really don't mind. More thinking, and also talking to GS leaders who are excited about the decision as their troops don't camp, hike, etc. Now sounding like a right-winger I'll get upset when I see "mother" taking over and hovering over scouts...as upset as I get when I see a "father" doing the same. On the Cub Scout side (my younger is a Tiger this year - I'm taking on CM) I'm very excited about girls being included. I had always enjoyed the family atmosphere at CS camps. Girls #2: Some here are already mentioning "coed troop" options. From my limited understanding of the infogram, the only two options are separate troops (boy/girl troops, each having a different CO and boy/girl troops sharing a CO - both still being seperate troops). If I misunderstood and they were refering to the second option mentioned in the parentheses, my bad. Wood Badge: I went to Wood Badge. I took home some gems of knowledge and used them in my pack and troop, as well as in my job as a Project Manager. I was dissapointed in the lack of rigidity I thought I would see - e.g., no uniform inspections, etc. I set my bar high for my tickets as I thought all had. Then I was sickened when everyone celebrated the first beading (after only a few months), that being some rather weak tickets in my opinion. But my opinion also includes some weak Eagle projects I see out there as well these days. I have hung my head seeing some Wood Badgers - one gent was wearing his proudly with a t-shirt (I guess that's now accepted) and parading around like he was king of scouters, another cornered my troop in the woods as we were hiking asking if all the adult leaders were Wood Badgers as there is none greater than a Wood Badge Leader! I wear my beads, but with my troop necker, and strive to embrace the humility I feel every leader should, especially a Wood Badger. I also don't like a bunch of crap dangling off my uniform and drawing attention. Breaking poing: I thought I had encountered a few, but I keep seeing that the boys (now youth) just need me there. Honestly my breaking point will be when my son(s) look at me and say they don't want to do scouts anymore, and after some encouragement towards scouting they maintain that position. There are other fine organizations out there - Civil Air Patrol being one my son is eyeing. Obtaining that Eagle is a fine accomplishment that I celebrate in every boy that earns it, however it just really isn't that game-changer employers are looking for that will set you high above other candidates.

Thank you all for your continued responses - I truly appreciate the fact that I can jump on a forum and have my brother/sister scout leaders assist. We spoke last night. I had a third option after talking to the other AOL patrol in our pack. They are taking a slower track, and plan to cross over in May, so I offered to let him ride out the rest of the year with them. She decided that she was just going to take him out and "revisit" the idea of scouts when he turns 11. It makes me a little sad since he's been with me from a Tiger (Cub), but I respect her decision. Another side of this is he has not been active this year anyways and really has a lot of catching up to do - so it's not like he only has this one requirement then he's done. Well, I've done what I could and I'm going to let him loose. To address some comments the YPT and registration is, as HelpfulTracks pointed out, required so we can have a background check. This was discussed by the CO and founding SM based on past experience within another troop of having adults come to camp that were relatives (or friends in some cases) of the boys with no YPT. We felt that YPT is good as long as it is enforced, but when not enforced it is just a video and certificate. Even when enforced we were getting strange characters showing up that may have taken the YPT but ...were shady. Another comment was that he could come during the day, but this particular event requires the troop to come and go as a unit. So if the troop decides to camp, they arrive and camp as a unit. Due to the logistics having someone roll up on Saturday and try to find you would be difficult. Anyway - thanks again for the help, and just being there when I need to throw a thought out there!

Good point, Hawkwin. The email is sort of a follow-up to our conversation where I told her I would seek out his options, so I'll follow it up with a phone call to make sure she understands. Very good point so thank you.

Just sent her an email with two options. Here is the relevant part of my email. I hope it was fair! On another note, no issues if you are still feeling like he cannot go alone. You have to make that decision as a mother and I hold nothing against that. The requirement states that the boy "must participate in a Boy Scout troop's camping or outdoor adventure ...", so he will have to complete that before he can be awarded the AOL and cross over. There are a couple options: 1) You can wait until a later date when Troop 529 (or I can help you find another troop) is conducting a non-camping outdoor activity. I am not sure when that will be. Once he completes this I can put him in for the AOL and he can cross over to a troop. He would have until 31 May. 2) You can wait until his 11th birthday (3 June) then just register him in a troop, but he does not have the AOL. The requirements for entering a Boy Scout troop is that the boy must be 11 years old, or 10 years old and have earned the AOL. This is designed to ensure the younger boy has the experience to enter a troop earlier (if he has his AOL). It's all about making sure the boy is ready to be out on his own (in a controlled environment, of course). I understand this is a tough decision to make, but I certainly stand behind whatever path you choose. I'm happy to help out where I can, so please keep me informed!

Very good point DuctTape! This will help in talking to the mother!

Thank you both! Honestly I'm sad to lose this boy as he's been with me from a Tiger. qwazse your answer made me chuckle and sad at the same time - unfortunately I think this is going to be the outcome. Latin Scot your answer is right on - I'm going to spell it out and let them make the decision (I shouldn't be the one to stress over it!). "C" was never really an option - just me going out of my mind trying to accomodate this kid, as we typically do as scout leaders! Thanks again!

Seeking advice here - will try to keep scenario short so I'll stick to the facts. My AOL den has been working hard since June to get our advancements in so we can cross over in January. As a den we decided to attend our district's Yule Log weekend camping event to fulfill Scouting Adventure requirement #4 (...participate in a Boy Scout troop's campout or other outdoor activity ... ). All of my boys are going ... except one. The troop we are moving up into will only allow parents to camp IF they are registered scout leaders with current YPT. Two dad's decided to register so they can come camping; both will probably remain leaders. The scout's parents are not ready to allow him to camp by himself, the mother does not want to camp and the father works out of state. This is the only chance we have to complete this requirement before our planned AOL and Cross Over. I'm trying to figure out my options with this kid: a) Just leave him be - he never was really active and this just seals the deal. He probably won't move on to a troop since he cannot go camping alone. b) Recommend the parent to another troop to participate in a troop activity, then award the AOL after he has completed that. c) Forget about the requirement and pass him anyway. d) ???

Hedgehog I think that's a great explanation of your Venturing crew and experience with TG kids. It certainly sounds like a crew I want my son (or, if I had a daughter) to be part of. I know there's a lot of issues being raised here, but it seems that the underlying issue for me is that I really don't want the Boy Scouts to become a co-ed organization. Why? Well not because I cannot fathom serving the youth (all sexes) of our nation, but rather that I want that place where boys can get together to bond as boys. Honestly, I don't mind throwing a truly transgendered or whatever kid in the mix. My fear is that this is a step leading to the Cub Scouts and the Boy Scouts becoming co-ed, and that's the issue I have. BSA has co-ed groups, and I understand they work well. However, there are girl organizations out there (GSA) to serve those niches too. Taking way Cubs/Boy Scouts takes away the boy-only option. I don't think it's wrong to have a boy-only option. Is that out of line? The YPT issues can be resolved - albeit with a little time and a little money (revamping bathrooms, etc.).

@Helpful Tracks - that post was very...helpful! Thanks for taking the time to write.

Both interesting and informative - thanks! I guess, secretly, that I'll be sad that there will be a girl's organization and a co-ed organization...but no boy's organization in the end.

Your whole post is excellent - I just picked this out because this is one of the big things bothering me (the other YPT issues). WHAT THE CRAP IS WRONG WITH THE GIRL SCOUTS????? They go camping, etc. and every time I speak with a Girl Scout leader I walk away impressed! The GS is a great organization!!!! So I guess - why would the BSA need to start a parallel org for girls ... let alone why does the BSA need to change to include girls??? I keep thinking that this is the road we are going down - becoming a co-ed organization. And many of the leaders I talk with think the same way. HOWEVER - if BSA becomes co-ed, what will become of the GS organization? Don't you think they would fight this decision? Just curious.

"Courteous" "kind" "friendly" "brave" go out the window when lawsuits are involved.

Needs to be discussed, as long as the discussion is being productive. Change is not always good - especially when it is forced.

THIS!! The arrogance in this girl/family makes me want to completely vomit. "I'm going to make them conform to me" BS! The thing with Trail Life is that it doesn't have the coveted "Eagle Scout" rank that we all look to put on our son's resumes.