DuctTape

IMO, if summer camp utilizes a dininig hall, scouts should not be able to use those days towards camping merit badge. #PuttingOnFlameRetardantSuit IMO, if summer camp utilizes a dininig hall, scouts should not be able to use those days towards camping merit badge. #PuttingOnFlameRetardantSuit

IMO, the real reason to do a roll your own camp is to do a completely original adventure. - canoe trip -backpacking trip -bike/hike -WW rafting -wilderness survival/bushcraft -fishing ... or combinations. Inherent to any roll your own is patrol (or individual) cooking including the menu planning, shopping and prepping. All of these can incorporate one or more merit badges IF any of the scouts care to work on them, but the focus is fun/adventure not mBs. I do not think trying to replicate a merit badge based BSA camp is likely to save all that much $ when all is said and done. As I began, the purpose of a roll your own is to do just that... something that is your own.

My initial thought to your opening statement was "eye black" used by athletes. While functional in nature, it has also begun to be used as merely decoration. My second thought was seeing kids at school athletic contests. Many will paint their faces with school colors, a specific athlete's jersey #, or (during homecoming) their graduation year. I often see little kids with face paint at festivals, usually some cartoon character. As I was finishing my thoughts here I also realized that many adultsvwill use face paint especially at sporting events, like NFL games. I guess my point is that the more I thought about it, the more common face paint in today's culture really is. However your point about it being specific to a "rite of passage" is something different and well put.

I agree the SM (and all adults) should have the mindset and character necessary to serve the scouts. In addition to the focused vision of the SM, the "how tos" using the patrol method, motto, oath, etc... must be shared and understood by the rest of the Scouters especially the ASMs. Communicating to the Committee the "how tos", their alignment to the vision and the direct line linking the methods to the aims will not just help the committee to understand but also facilitate the SMs work. The necessary (thin yet unbreakable) thread within all of this is as you alluded to with the servant leadership, Adult Association as a method. The scouts need to see, witness, and experience first hand the adults demonstrating the highest level of leadership, communication, patrol method, character, etc... The Scouters should be hyper-focused on being exemplars whom the scouts WILL emulate. Perhaps we can use this thread to impart some specific examples of "how tos" , their connection to a vision and use of the patrol method to maximize SM effectiveness?

A go-to resource for the scouts for information, mB cards, recommendations, etc is a worthwhile ASM duty for a very large troop. If a troop does have an ASM dedicated/focused on advancement, that person should be acutely aware of the slipperiness of advancement as a method to advancement as an aim. The ASM should be careful to ensure advancement is the scout's journey and not push, prod, nor carry the scout along for the ride. Good are gentle reminders posed as questions such as "hey bobby, how is the archery mB going? You got a partial at camp last summer right?" As stated this role can slide a troop into advancement as an Aim and worse not belong to the Scout.

Perhaps this might bring scouting back to its "earn/build your own" roots. Scouts making their own gear, or saving money to buy their own. Less "troop gear" might be a blessing. One of the vestiges of the oft demeaned heritage patrols was the gear the patrol made, and/or purchased themselves. It was the patrols stuff, not the troops.

I am not an attorney so please forgive me, but wouldn't the standards of the day be VERY relevant as to establishing (or not) fraudulent concealment at that time?

Now I am curious as to other's super secret peach cobbler recipes. Mine is just the typical dump cake style; nuttin' fancy.

I disagree with de-prioritizing Adult Association. The problem isn't the method. The problem is most adults don't understand it, and it isn't done properly (as is true with most of the methods). To wit, the complaints of adults taking over NSPs is NOT adult association. Just having adults present or hovering is NOT adult association. An overbearing SM leading everything and/or telling scouts how to do everything is NOT adult association. Adult Association is adults of high moral caliber exhibiting the Oath and Law through words and deeds. Adult Association is the regular SM conferences which mentor scouts and help them grow. Adult Association is an expert in his field/hobby sharing his/her passion with scouts as a mB counselor. Adult Association is when a scout looks at an adult and says to themselves, "I want to be like him (or her)."

There are plenty. I have met many, but they do not have tv shows so no one else knows of their names. Extrapolating to the entire country I am certain there are thousands of qualified young people who could fill the role. If BSA wanted to, they could fund and create a show (start with youtube) to generate a media presence for the ambassador. This is not much different from what BSA did in its early days when authors wrote books and stories about scout patrols. These were not commissioned by BSA but they did not object to folks using "Boy Scouts" and other trademarks since it promoted the program. But, yes, there are many qualified young people who could do this.

At this point I am mot sure you read my entire post. I will allow you time to re-read it and reflect. Please remember that all my comments are meant in the spirit of helpfulness for you, and moreso for the scouts.

This is a different situation from "whispering in the ear" of the patrol leader who is running a meeting. In general, a PL should regularly invite "experts" to teach a skill at a patrol meeting. The patrol meetings can be part of a larger troop meeting. As to this specific situation, I would first ask why was there no instruction prior to the campout? If there wasn't (which is a problem inandofitself), I would let the scout struggle and wait for them to ask for help. If I see the scout will not ask, prior to them hitting the frustration and melt-down stage, I will ask if they would like some assistance. After they accept, I will often then say "I am happy to show you, but the price is that you will be expected to show the next scout who needs assistance." Since no other scouts are experienced (as per your scenario), I might do this with a group of two (or three). I would also follow up with the PL about knowledge and skill preparedness of the patrol and remind them of using meetings ahead of time to get instruction and practice skills. Lastly, I think you may be misinterpreting a lot of my commentary. I am not suggesting that we just let the scouts flail and fail and never intervene nor provide guidance. It is just the how & when of intervention. It is an art for sure. As you can see in my example above, I guide them ahead of time to plan, and ask for assistance. I will never say no to a request for assistance (A Scout is Helpful). If I see a potential issue I allow the scout to struggle up to but never getting to the point of maddening frustration (each scout is different).

Welcome to the virtual campfire. -dT

Sharing a personal story here, it may or may not help. I started scouts in a troop which was very active, the SM was great, the patrols operated independently, I had fun with all the other guys. After a couple years I visited another troop with my father. I knew some of these guys from school, but not many. The troop was ok. It didn't seem like it was better than the other. I went on a campout with them. I had a good time (I think?) I did make some new friends quite quickly. I do not recall ever going back to the other troop for a meeting. We just switched to the new troop. I do not recall at the time "missing the other troop" as I was having a good time with the new guys. Many years later I was having a conversation with my father and the old troop came up. He asked if I knew why we changed. I did not. He did not give me many details but said it was a safety issue; something about inappropriate firearms use. It might have been on a campout I did not attend. I do not know. My point of the story is that even though I was having a good time in my old troop, and the troop operated quite well, the safety issue was a non-negotiable for my father and we switched troops without me even knowing why. As a scout, doing scouting things with other kids I didn't even realize it or apparently care. I know I adapt to change quite easily, so that could be why it really did not faze me at the time. Good luck!

My advice... Find a new troop. If not for this reason, but for your response #4 above. An adult should not be running a patrol. To be frank, he is not in Scouts if that is what is happening. He is being denied real opportunities derived from scout led patrol method. IMO, this is more important than any rank or mB. Edit... Run away fast!

Yeah, I must be missing something. This bill seems to be less about public access and more about allowances to guide companies and other businesses.

The reason I would not recommend it is because it does not allow failure. A scout needs failure to reflect and learn. That is the number one feature of scouting. Allowing the scout to fail, reflect, learn, and improve IS scouting.

One reaon I am not a fan of parent's putting $ into a troop account ahead of time for campouts, etc... is this practice reduces (eliminates?) the opportunity for scouts to learn budgeting, responsibility, planning, value of $, etc... at the individual and patrol level. When scouts have to "touch the $" at all levels of the program they benefit greatly. Every step of the process that separates them from the $ is an opportunity lost.

In which case the answer to the parents is, "I suppose Scouting is not the activity you are looking for. Good luck with finding an activity which fits your needs."

A few more details here: https://abc7ny.com/bear-attack-cooperstown-harriman-state-park-camping/11885251/ "I made a mistake," Ayers said. "I left some of my food in my bag and spilled some on my leg and it was also other people that left a lot of trash around."

IIRC, the "choosing" was all done ahead of time by the PLC. This was just the announcing. So it wasn't like gym class and picking teams. It is possible they announced all the patrols selections at the same time, "Tigers select Jimmy and John". It was a long time ago.

An interesting idea I only experienced once, and that was when I joined my first troop. At the first few troop meetings all the new scouts participated with all of the patrols (a different patrol each week). IIRC, we went as 2 per patrol. After 3 or 4 meetings the Patrols chose which of us were invited to join them. They made a big deal about choosing us. It was kind of like "draft day", the SPL would announce "The Toads choose Jimmy to join their patrol"! Cheers and high fives as each scout would run over to their patrol, be greeted with enthusiam and given their patrol badge.

Sad that previous human use habituated the bear. Bears are creatures of habit, it learned at some point that tents and sleeping bags were an easy food source. Earlier human visitors must have kept food in their tent and/or sleeping bag which provided the bear the opportunities to learn this. Sadly the scouts (who apparently did follow food storage protocols) were the benefactors. Fortunately none were seriously injured.

Possibly. Might I suggest that if this occurs it might be a result of not having the conversations with the scout ahead of time. Has he scout been explicitly told he may (and should) seek guidance when needed? Did the scouter go over the plans with the scout leader ahead of time? Not to approve or fix them, just to ensure the scout had a plan. The scouter should ask leading questions to help the growing scout leader determine what should be considered. Afterwards, a sit down to discuss what worked, didn't etc... But not "whispering in their ear" during the activity. In general, "off the rails" is when a significant safety issue is about to occur.

I think the biggest problem is that is creates a paradigm which then must be dismantled. I disagree that it allows them to "get used to scouting" because that paradigm is fundamentally NOT scouting; what they are getting used to is adults being the leader. The idea of an adult continually whispering in their ear of a scout who is not prepared to be the leader denies the scouts the opportunity to experience scouting via an older Patrol leader. This experience will have positives and negatives which will help shape the younger scouts understanding. It will also affect how they ultimately lead when they are more prepared to do so.