DuctTape

I am no Luddite, but if any process change in scouts eliminates a scout's responsibility and puts it solely on adults is a disservice to the scout and takes away from them an opportunity for growth. So SB, or other digital record keeping should either supplement the blue card process, or the scout needs to be able to access the digital record to submit records.

Yes. Adults are most often the problem, and summer camps often facilitate the problems. Ultimately when the process is not followed it is the scout who loses not just because of lost paperwork, but often being shortchanged from a growth opportunity that should have been a robust mB experience.

Ultimately it is the scouts responsibility to have their blue card signed, and to keep it. The mB counselor is responsible for testing each scout on each requirement and then signing off on the blue cards. Attending a class may or may not have included the individual testing of the scout. MB counselors, even at camp, may not just count attendance at a class as fulfilling the requirements as written. Thus without a specific record of each requirement being completed as written, the camp director nor any other adult can wave a wand to waive the sign-off on the blue card.

A thrifty way to find a place to camp which we use regularly is contacting local parks which do not allow camping in general. We have had good success asking if we could do a "park clean-up and camp overnight". The town parks are very amenable to the arrangement. They will often send someone down with a truck to provide bags and then collects them when we are done. The scouts do about an hour or so of dedicated cleanup in the parking area, and then continually pick stuff up while hiking and playing. Edit: having the scouts call to ask (on speakerphone) is a fantastic growth opportunity. To facilitate success, we will have an adult make first contact to inquire about the possibility and then have the scouts call.

With a larger troop that is able to have enough adults for separate outings, you could also encourage the patrols to plan their outings instead of the troop. The PLC time could then be to see if there is overlap and then patrols could do outings together. But first, the ideas come from each patrol. IMO the best part of individual patrol outings are the reporting out to the troop about the outing, bragging on the activity and recognizing patrol members for jobs well done purposely excluding advancement, although the reporting might have involved something for advancement. Example. Troop meeting opening. Reports from Patrols. -Big Bad Wolf patrol did an overnight bike trip. Jimmy was awarded "mr.fixit" for his expertise in re-aligning a chain that came off a bike. The Wolf Patrol would also like to recognize Mr. Andrews for meeting us at the park with all our camping gear. He surprised us with ice-cream sandwiches too. -Wild Lightning patrol just returned from a 2-night campout. Davey led us on a poop hike. We followed marked trails around the park looking for animal poop and trying to figure out what kind of animal made it. Davey gets the "poop hiker award" (hands Davey an TP tube with "poop hiker award" written on it.

What are these "spendy" outings? Knowing these might help us see the type of activities which interest the scouts. Then we could provide some thrifty alternatives which might also capture their attention.

Barry, I do not think we disagree, except for the judgement that their decision is actually in error. I completely agree with having a worthwhile discussion with them, but I withold judging their behavior. The judgement should come from them.

That is one possible interpretation. Another possibility is the scouts are mocking those whom said alliance is being proffered. Another possibility is the scouts were just trying to have fun and be goofy. There are other possibilities as well. Likely the true intent of the scouts is one of the other possibilities. We should be careful to not ascribe intent based on our own interpretations which are clouded by our own experiences and biases. If it were me and they were my scouts I would start by engaging in a conversation in a non-judgemental manner. (With a smile)... "Hey Jimmy I saw you wearing tights and a tutu, I don't think I have seen that before. How did you come up with that?"

I agree. I did not like the worksheets in the later 20th C and we are now more than twenty years into the next. We can move past the worksheets and even the pamphlets. If we want to modernize them, do not just make digital versions of the paper product instead we go to video. "how to do a j-stroke" video. Wait, it already exists thanks to the experts at canoeing tv on youtube. All that is necessary is for national to keep a website updated with the the requirements. No pdf necessary, just the website and links to relevant youtube videos for specific information. I would not recommend they try to parse all the links by requirement, instead just a broad list (at most parse it by category). Continuing with the canoeing example: Canoeing mB Requirements (current date) 1. 2. 3. etc... Resources: link to American Canoe Association Website link to other canoeing websites How to Videos: link to ACA videos on youtube link to other videos... Broken Link Report Button

District and Council events are mostly the antithesis of patrol method camping anyway. I discourage them (to the adults).

I could not complete it. Survey question #3 about which is least compelling, I cannot answer. All are equally compelling (to me).

It used to be that the troop would have a library of pamphlets which the troop librarian would be in charge. The librarian would keep records of which scout borrowed which pamphlet, ensure the pamphlets were up to date, etc... A troop usually did not have all mBs in the library but would have multiple copies of the popular ones.

IMO, if summer camp utilizes a dininig hall, scouts should not be able to use those days towards camping merit badge. #PuttingOnFlameRetardantSuit IMO, if summer camp utilizes a dininig hall, scouts should not be able to use those days towards camping merit badge. #PuttingOnFlameRetardantSuit

IMO, the real reason to do a roll your own camp is to do a completely original adventure. - canoe trip -backpacking trip -bike/hike -WW rafting -wilderness survival/bushcraft -fishing ... or combinations. Inherent to any roll your own is patrol (or individual) cooking including the menu planning, shopping and prepping. All of these can incorporate one or more merit badges IF any of the scouts care to work on them, but the focus is fun/adventure not mBs. I do not think trying to replicate a merit badge based BSA camp is likely to save all that much $ when all is said and done. As I began, the purpose of a roll your own is to do just that... something that is your own.

My initial thought to your opening statement was "eye black" used by athletes. While functional in nature, it has also begun to be used as merely decoration. My second thought was seeing kids at school athletic contests. Many will paint their faces with school colors, a specific athlete's jersey #, or (during homecoming) their graduation year. I often see little kids with face paint at festivals, usually some cartoon character. As I was finishing my thoughts here I also realized that many adultsvwill use face paint especially at sporting events, like NFL games. I guess my point is that the more I thought about it, the more common face paint in today's culture really is. However your point about it being specific to a "rite of passage" is something different and well put.

I agree the SM (and all adults) should have the mindset and character necessary to serve the scouts. In addition to the focused vision of the SM, the "how tos" using the patrol method, motto, oath, etc... must be shared and understood by the rest of the Scouters especially the ASMs. Communicating to the Committee the "how tos", their alignment to the vision and the direct line linking the methods to the aims will not just help the committee to understand but also facilitate the SMs work. The necessary (thin yet unbreakable) thread within all of this is as you alluded to with the servant leadership, Adult Association as a method. The scouts need to see, witness, and experience first hand the adults demonstrating the highest level of leadership, communication, patrol method, character, etc... The Scouters should be hyper-focused on being exemplars whom the scouts WILL emulate. Perhaps we can use this thread to impart some specific examples of "how tos" , their connection to a vision and use of the patrol method to maximize SM effectiveness?

A go-to resource for the scouts for information, mB cards, recommendations, etc is a worthwhile ASM duty for a very large troop. If a troop does have an ASM dedicated/focused on advancement, that person should be acutely aware of the slipperiness of advancement as a method to advancement as an aim. The ASM should be careful to ensure advancement is the scout's journey and not push, prod, nor carry the scout along for the ride. Good are gentle reminders posed as questions such as "hey bobby, how is the archery mB going? You got a partial at camp last summer right?" As stated this role can slide a troop into advancement as an Aim and worse not belong to the Scout.

Perhaps this might bring scouting back to its "earn/build your own" roots. Scouts making their own gear, or saving money to buy their own. Less "troop gear" might be a blessing. One of the vestiges of the oft demeaned heritage patrols was the gear the patrol made, and/or purchased themselves. It was the patrols stuff, not the troops.

I am not an attorney so please forgive me, but wouldn't the standards of the day be VERY relevant as to establishing (or not) fraudulent concealment at that time?

Now I am curious as to other's super secret peach cobbler recipes. Mine is just the typical dump cake style; nuttin' fancy.

I disagree with de-prioritizing Adult Association. The problem isn't the method. The problem is most adults don't understand it, and it isn't done properly (as is true with most of the methods). To wit, the complaints of adults taking over NSPs is NOT adult association. Just having adults present or hovering is NOT adult association. An overbearing SM leading everything and/or telling scouts how to do everything is NOT adult association. Adult Association is adults of high moral caliber exhibiting the Oath and Law through words and deeds. Adult Association is the regular SM conferences which mentor scouts and help them grow. Adult Association is an expert in his field/hobby sharing his/her passion with scouts as a mB counselor. Adult Association is when a scout looks at an adult and says to themselves, "I want to be like him (or her)."

There are plenty. I have met many, but they do not have tv shows so no one else knows of their names. Extrapolating to the entire country I am certain there are thousands of qualified young people who could fill the role. If BSA wanted to, they could fund and create a show (start with youtube) to generate a media presence for the ambassador. This is not much different from what BSA did in its early days when authors wrote books and stories about scout patrols. These were not commissioned by BSA but they did not object to folks using "Boy Scouts" and other trademarks since it promoted the program. But, yes, there are many qualified young people who could do this.

At this point I am mot sure you read my entire post. I will allow you time to re-read it and reflect. Please remember that all my comments are meant in the spirit of helpfulness for you, and moreso for the scouts.

This is a different situation from "whispering in the ear" of the patrol leader who is running a meeting. In general, a PL should regularly invite "experts" to teach a skill at a patrol meeting. The patrol meetings can be part of a larger troop meeting. As to this specific situation, I would first ask why was there no instruction prior to the campout? If there wasn't (which is a problem inandofitself), I would let the scout struggle and wait for them to ask for help. If I see the scout will not ask, prior to them hitting the frustration and melt-down stage, I will ask if they would like some assistance. After they accept, I will often then say "I am happy to show you, but the price is that you will be expected to show the next scout who needs assistance." Since no other scouts are experienced (as per your scenario), I might do this with a group of two (or three). I would also follow up with the PL about knowledge and skill preparedness of the patrol and remind them of using meetings ahead of time to get instruction and practice skills. Lastly, I think you may be misinterpreting a lot of my commentary. I am not suggesting that we just let the scouts flail and fail and never intervene nor provide guidance. It is just the how & when of intervention. It is an art for sure. As you can see in my example above, I guide them ahead of time to plan, and ask for assistance. I will never say no to a request for assistance (A Scout is Helpful). If I see a potential issue I allow the scout to struggle up to but never getting to the point of maddening frustration (each scout is different).

Welcome to the virtual campfire. -dT