DuctTape

And I agree with you. I wonder if in the troops where this issue is the greatest, the fundraisers are designed, implemented and run by adults or are they part of the boy-led program? Perhaps this is a symptom of something greater. I know in my troop, the fundraisers are all adult -run. This is something I have been slowly working on. Difficult to change when "this is how we have always done it". Since many/most of the boys aren't invested in this part of the program due to them not having any real part of the process, the issue comes up often for me. I am slowly training the adults to learn what boy-led means.

The idea that scouts will participate or be motivated solely by personal gain is the antithesis of Scouting. If they aren't doing their best, as service to others with pure motives absent of personal gain then they aren't being true scouts, and we are failing them by not providing the opportunity for a program to instill that virtue.

Neither. "A boy may wear all the scout uniforms made, all the scout badges ever manufactured, know all the woodcraft, campercraft, scoutcraft and other activities of boy scouts, and yet never be a real boy scout. To be a real boy scout means the doing of a good turn every day with the proper motive and if this be done, the boy has the right to be classsed with the great scouts that have been of such great service to their country." -J. Alexander as written in the 1911 Handbook for Boys

I never understood what was wrong with the aim, methods, etc... of scouting as written by J. Alexander in the 1911 Handbook. "The aim of the Boy Scouts is to supplement the various existing educational agencies and to promote the ability in boys to do things for themselves and others." "The method is summed up in the term Scoutcraft, and is a combination of observation, deduction and handiness, or the ability to do things." "This is accomplished in games and team play, and is pleasure, not work, for the boy." "All that is needed is the out-of-doors, a group of boys, and a competent leader."

Except not, since interactions on FB are public, except for private/instant messages which are no different than a phone call. I wasnt clear. By not being friends and only posting interactions on the troop page in public view, no one on one digital contact occurs.

Our troop has a FB page. Since FB requires account holders and anyone using FB be 13+ years old, those under 13 would be lying if they use or have an account. We remind them a scout is trustworthy. For those over 13, I am not "friends" with them. Any interaction on FB can be done via the troop page in full view of everyone. I suppose that is the online version of no one on one contact.

Don't forget Trustworthy. Even having a FB account is evidence of lying as one must be 13, and declare to be such in order to create and use an account.

Ben Franklin also predicted it. Jefferson was quite clear about the dangers of a country which moved beyond an agrarian system. I don't think the founders would be appalled. In fact I don't think they would be very surprised. Throughout history, no republic nor democracy had lasted, the founders as educated men would have been well aware of history and known the system would have devolved.

And from the beginning there have been gay leaders (role models). The issue is whether others happen to know the adult is gay. If an adult was a good role model when no one knew he/she was gay, how/why do they cease to be a good role model when others find out that person is gay? To me, the answer to that question is the most telling.

Another solution to ask the scouts is if they want to attend. In my troop, during their annual planning they assumed they had to do _____ because that is what has always been done, None of them really cared for it, but a few of the adults that have been around really like it and these scouters try to sell the district and council camporees to the scouts. These adults wonder why all but the most involved scouts (read: those who never miss anything) don't go. The scouts were surprised when they realized they didn't have to put ____ camporee on the calendar. Often boys do only what they know and/or think they are allowed/expected to do. Sometimes reminding the boy leaders that THEY get to decide what the trip will be. Some might not realize they can contact other troops and do joint trips, heck even a klondike derby outside of the council/district. If the boys know they have options and that the adults support their decisions. I use the 3 questions 1. Is it safe? 2. Is it Scouting 3. Is it fun? as the deciding metric with my boy leaders.

Basketry & Snorkling yeah, I know snorkling isnt a MB.

I have noticed in the last couple decades a directional shift in Eagle projects to be more structure building requiring significant material cost and expertise well beyond that of a scout. In the past, projects were more labor intensive requiring the candidate to organize other scouts (and some adults) to accomplish a significant task, any cost was usually minor and often the benefiting organization would pony up that small amount. In all of your estimations, what percentage of projects require significant fundraising? Have you noticed a difference from years past?

If you do decide to start a new troop, the CO doesn't need to exist already. The adults can form a "Group of Citizens" and become the CO. In effect it is the TC which is the CO. The difficulty is finding a location. Sometimes organizations are more willing (or able) to allow BSA to use their facilities without being the CO. Public Schools for example.

Agreed. All roles of adults within the BSA structure have the capacity to either help the boys grow, or be a hindrance via inappropriate implementation of the role. The OP asked about a benefit. One I can see is having a single adult attached to a patrol could help mitigate the intrusion of other adults. All of this is predicated on the Patrol dad understanding and implementing his role appropriately with full understanding of the associated risks. the same is true for all adult roles in the troop, the SM included. I understand the fear some have about this role leading to an adult led troop, that risk is inherent to all adult roles, not just patrol dads.

The "end" of the internet: http://www.1112.net/lastpage.html

While we cannot go back and un-ring the bell, I wonder if the scout was advised to reconsider the size and scope of the project to fit within the budgetary constraints of the money raised. Adapting to this type of challenge is one of the major learning pieces of the eagle project. It sounds like the parents with all the good intentions unwittingly denied their boy a great opportunity to learn. IMO, their penance should be to now view that money as a donation.

Counting twenty minutes of EDGE in place of the Patrol Method in the "Patrol Method" session of Scoutmaster Specific Training? I think kudu is referring to Adult Leader training, he specifically stated the Scoutmaster Specific Training. In my experience, many of our adult leaders need more intensive training in how to train using the Patrol Method, not so much how to train specific skills using edge.

Any entity can apply for a Federal EIN. One doesn't need to be tax-exempt or a business. The pack, even the den level can apply. Call the IRS and ask how to apply, or apply online. http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-%26-Self-Employed/Apply-for-an-Employer-Identification-Number-(EIN)-Online

Some AT hikers use the play filter system, but those who do, either retrofitted it as an inline filter for a hydration bladder, use the bottler attachment and squeeze it through (not using gravity), or they sit and wait. Sitting and waiting is not desireable to backpackers in general. The more popular filter (that isn't a pump) is now the Sawyer Squeeze.

Backpackers in general do not use gravity filters as they are intended for base camp, not moving. On the AT and other trails, you will find many who use inline filters or squeeze filters. They are similar to gravity filters and can be used as gravity filters, but not all gravity filters can be used by backpackers on the move.

An natural shelter which is completely LNT would be in winter and making a snow cave, quinzee, or igloo.

Nice idea packsaddle. I would add, if the beaded ones start to talk about WB, mention you have a badge made of wood too; you carved it out of hickory. Then begin to talk about more scoutcraft.

More often than not (no pun intended) I use a double sheetbend for the extra holding power.

I was thinking the same thing as the final option on the continuum of options. Less than full resignation from the troop and failure to convince the SM to change, a scout may register jointly with another troop and participate with them as well. This may provide the opportunity for recognition into the OA as well as other potential opportunities.

The SM should be deferring to the boys, to that I completely agree. However, the idea of going to the committee to over rule it appears to be a slippery slope. I disagree it is a BSA policy decision, unless someone can point to the BSA regs which require the SM to hold the OA election. What is the purpose of the SM signature on the blue card, or the SM signature on the OA election? It is BSA policy the decision is to be left to the SM. As I said, if the decisions he is making do not fit what the charteing organization desires, they can find a new SM.