DuctTape

First class-first year should not be a goal. That only encourages pencil whipping and focuses exclusively on advancement. I subscribe to GBB, "When you go hiking and camping the subjects contained in the requirements come up all the time. With plenty of Scouting work before them your boys simply cannot help advancing." Focus on scouting adventures, and the advancement will occur as a result.

changing requirements does little to change a poor program into a better one, and a quality program will still be a quality program. As long as bsa, councils, troops focus on requirements and advancement almost exclusively little will change to improve program. IMO the best, and only way to improve the program is to focus on fun and adventure. If this is the focus, the program will improve and advancement (as a secondary interest) will take care of itself. My suggestion to bsa is to stop playing with requirements and focus on how to help councils and troops create a fun, adventure filled program which is truly boy led using the patrol method. Pencil whipping occurs when the goal is paper and pencil.

I do not view palms as ranks above eagle. But then I also do not see eagle as a rank either. I see them as awards, like they used to be. The awards are recognition of a set of requirements achieved beyond the ranks. After first class, the awards signify more in depth knowledge, experience and service and differentiate from rank because the skill and knowledge base is determined mostly by the scouts chosen paths of interest in their merit badge selection. At least until all 21 of the mbs are from the required list.

pre-eagle palm makes no sense to me. the mbs are their own recognition. an award for an extra arbitrary number does not compute; just say Eagle and 5 extra mbs. A palm is an award beyond Eagle. Just as eagle is an award beyond life, and star. J7st like those earlier awards (now ranks) one could earn extra mbs for later awards, those weren't the only requirement for the next award (rank) and thus one could not receive them concurrently. one had to also complete the "as a star scout..." requirements. I fear we have slid even further down the slippery slope allowing rank requirements to become just a checklist and diminishing the other aspects more and more. In the early ranks it has been a significant detriment to the program in many areas because allowing a scout to do requirements for any rank at any time, waters down the learning by decreasing the opportunities for growth in a progression of small steps with increasing difficulty and rigor. /offmysoapbox

True. Most forums are just to plane.

I am not a big supporter of tangents; I usually prefer secants.

When I was a cub, I remember the BnG as a big dinner with the entire pack. We only did whole pack activities about 3 times a year, everything else was done as a den. We didn't "cross over", not sure when that term started, or where. We spent the spring time going on different camping trips with different troops. We joined the troop of our choice in the fall. This gave us a entire year of hiking and camping as Boy Scouts with our patrol and troop before our first Boy Scout Summer camp. In my opinion, we keep pushing things down to younger and younger boys. If I had the power I would significantly decrease the multiple requirement options for joining Boy Scouts. Specifically eliminate the "bonus" for arrow of light. It would be 11 years old or completed the fifth grade; that's it. I would also go back to earning webelos badge as a pre-requisite for arrow of light. I think the way things are done now makes the transition more difficult, and is a detriment to the program. Unfortunately it seems HQ is making decisions based on membership numbers. The problem is these decisions impact the program which decreases quality. It seems the business mindset in the US has been to decrease quality in the hopes of increasing quantity...ie the walmart model. I find this sad for BSA and for a majority of US companies which use market share as the most important metric. /rant

To me, it would make more sense if the red vs green were indeed opposites. If green = posts which one agrees, likes or finds helpful, the red should = posts which one disagrees, dislikes or does not find helpful. The means for reporting a post as malicious, off-topic or spam should be the "report" button. How you describe the current set up, it invites confusion and inappropriate (by your definition) use. Also it makes the "report" button redundant. My 2c.

My "summer camp" has been 2+ weeks in the wilderness with no facilities. Toilets were cat holes dug far from camp, we bathed in the lakes. Besides not killing good bacteria, "no soap" also allows the body to equalize in its body oil production. Shampoo in particular strips all oils, and the body reacts. After 2-3 days of rinsing off in lakes (some barely above 50 deg F) hair isn't greasy anymore as the body equalizes.

Just another reason why I am a proponent of waiting to join boy scouts until the fall.

Unless the Norman Rockwell work pre-dated 1923 in which case it would fall under public domain.

Or an app with the pamphlets accessible that way. The new electronic pamphlets could include tutorial videos, or links to access the video via youtube which could then generate ad revenue. Lots of ways to make them 21st century.

For purchasing, the most thrifty source is used. Once the style, design, model etc... has been decided, one can usually find an almost new version for pennies on the dollar. Many, many people buy gear and use it once and then resell it. There are even websites just for reselling gear. I personally find the best deals on forums which have buy/sell sections. It takes some patience to acquire gear in this manner though.

I think there is a distinction between "a service project" and "an eagle service project". In fact the requirements do spell out the difference. For Eagle: 5. While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to any religious institution, any school, or your community. For Life: 4. While a Star Scout, participate in six hours of service through one or more service projects approved by your Scoutmaster. The distinction is participation vs. plan, develop and lead.

Agreed. It is right there with, "that's the way we have always done it." Both arguments are examples of logical fallacies, albeit opposites of each other. The first is an appeal to novelty, while the other is an appeal to tradition.

This is just one reason why I abhor construction based eagle projects.

Initiating a phone call to an adult has always been a struggle even in the days of rotary phones. Part of growing up is learning the skill and not avoiding that which is somewhat uncomfortable. Allowing scouts to just do online or email denies them a growth opportunity.

the shame of Wilderness survival mb, is that it is many times a fluff mb for the newest scouts with little backwoods or camping experience. IMO, it should be one of the more advanced mbs and consistent with my wish for mbs to have pre-requisites, camping mb should be a pre-req for wilderness survival. To stay on topic, my favorite bsa publication are the ones which GBB was a primary author.

The typical desired attributes for sleeping bags are: warm, cheap, and light. Almost always you only get to pick 2 of them.

Nothing. In fact it is quite common. A "group of citizens" is quite often an effective CO as they exist solely for the benefit of the unit and its boys.

Was a tour permit filed?

In my past and current experience, when boys are left to decide for themselves they choose most often to be in small groups than be alone. They might each be on their electronic device, but the inherent need to be close to one another is too strong. At some point "screen addiction" will be understood, accepted as a reality, then and only then will adults and society begin to address it.

Even if the requirements were increased, successful completion of them would still be meeting the bare minimum. The only difference is defining what is considered the minimum. To equate this with making a team or playing time does not compute since there is no limit to how many scouts one can have in their troop, or go on outings. Perhaps if some adventure was only available to the top 6 elite scouts in a troop, then there would be a comparison. Often scouts and scouters will cry foul when a "ringer" patrol shows up at a camporee and wins all the events. I suppose that patrol was made up of those elite scouts who did more than the minimum, yet that is discouraged. /RandomStreamOfThoughts

I returned yesterday from a 30 mile backpacking trip. 7 people, 4 were women in their 20s-30s. There is a significant number of women who enjoy outdoor adventure. In my experience, while men still outnumber them in pure numbers, the ratio of adventure campers to plop campers is greater for the women.

More and more extracurriculars like music, drama and sports are requiring 100% attendance with contracts etc... Scouts for the most part tries to not compete and work around the other options. Even in this thread are suggestions how to work around. The other extracurriculars do not attempt to work around scouts or anything else. Sure priorities come into play, but when two activities conflict and one of them is lenient on participation and the other has zero tolerance for non-participation, unfortunately the boy's priorities have been chosen for him. This is not just for older HS boys, but even middle schoolers are "required" to participate in the other practices, etc... So what are possible solutions? 1. Participation requirements for scouts and compete directly with the other activities. 2. Continue to try to schedule scouting activities which do not conflict with the others during the school year. 3. Schedule scouting almost exclusively during school breaks like over the summer. 4. Focus on a unique, specialized outdoor based, patrol method adventure program which boys would choose instead of the other extracurriculars (not in addition to). 5. Do nothing.