DuctTape

There is also nothing stopping anyone, or group from buying a bshb and other books and just doing their own "scouting" much like the first scouts did which prompted BP to write his scouting for boys.

There are plenty of outdoorsy women out there. In my experience I have found them to be more receptive to learning and training for new adventures and techniques than the guys. This is especially true for the men with scouting experience and doubly for those from the military. The latter two are more often than not the most difficult to accept the boy-led, patrol method. I just came back from a 30 mile backpacking trip with 5 others, 3 of which were women in their 20's and 30's. The two 20-somethings was their first time. They loved it!

Thank you. I also found it in my 1965 handbook and noted the "only in emergency" clause.

The gaming would be more extreme with the new changes. One could just hold off on their eagle BOR and pump up their mbs until the last minute. Why not just do away with star and life while we are at it. Go directly from FC to eagle by eliminating the active, leadership, and other reqs. I can see this from both perspectives though. I just see there is more upside to the current structure than the soon-to-be.

My curiosity was piqued by the comment because I have always heard the comment about it being a bsa practice, but never seen it in any literature. In fact even the oldest literature is careful about using proper site selection for drainage as the requirement. I wonder if the practice was taught by military men returning from the wars and continued the military practice in scouts? It would not be the first time that military concepts have crept into scouting even if in conflict with official terms and ideals (eg Class A, B). Just some monday morning ponderings.

In essence this is what they are doing. Apparently the patch for completing the mBs is not enough, they want to give an additional award for simply finishing an arbitrary number of mbs. Why use multiples of 5? Why not use palm leaves for addional mbs earned in a more distinct sequence? Say after 1 extra, then 1 more, then 2, 3, 5, 8...

As an aside, regarding digging trenches around tents, I am not surprised this was taught in the past, but I am unaware it was in any of the fieldbooks. All of my copies going back to 1948 describe choosing tent locations with good drainage and make no mention of digging trenches. Admittedly I do not own every edition and every printing of the Fieldbook. So I am curious which edition this appeared as it must have been a short lived idea.

BOR is also a learning opportunity for the Scout. The more experience and practice they have interviewing with adults, the better prepared they will be when job seeking. The BOR should not just focus on the scout's advancement or review of program, but should also realize it can provide the boy with the types of questions he might experience in just a few short years. Thus the more BORs the better, and with a mixture of adults.

It used to work better when we were younger. Not so much anymore.

I agree with stosh. The last statement reminds me of something I said to my wife early on... If I ever say or do anything that can be interpreted in more than one way and one of those ways makes you upset, I meant it the other way.

6 trips is one every other month. 6 nights is 3 trips from Fri-Sun. A troop which puts other limits on number or type of trips may introduce additional obstacles to, but that is their choice.

First class-first year should not be a goal. That only encourages pencil whipping and focuses exclusively on advancement. I subscribe to GBB, "When you go hiking and camping the subjects contained in the requirements come up all the time. With plenty of Scouting work before them your boys simply cannot help advancing." Focus on scouting adventures, and the advancement will occur as a result.

changing requirements does little to change a poor program into a better one, and a quality program will still be a quality program. As long as bsa, councils, troops focus on requirements and advancement almost exclusively little will change to improve program. IMO the best, and only way to improve the program is to focus on fun and adventure. If this is the focus, the program will improve and advancement (as a secondary interest) will take care of itself. My suggestion to bsa is to stop playing with requirements and focus on how to help councils and troops create a fun, adventure filled program which is truly boy led using the patrol method. Pencil whipping occurs when the goal is paper and pencil.

I do not view palms as ranks above eagle. But then I also do not see eagle as a rank either. I see them as awards, like they used to be. The awards are recognition of a set of requirements achieved beyond the ranks. After first class, the awards signify more in depth knowledge, experience and service and differentiate from rank because the skill and knowledge base is determined mostly by the scouts chosen paths of interest in their merit badge selection. At least until all 21 of the mbs are from the required list.

pre-eagle palm makes no sense to me. the mbs are their own recognition. an award for an extra arbitrary number does not compute; just say Eagle and 5 extra mbs. A palm is an award beyond Eagle. Just as eagle is an award beyond life, and star. J7st like those earlier awards (now ranks) one could earn extra mbs for later awards, those weren't the only requirement for the next award (rank) and thus one could not receive them concurrently. one had to also complete the "as a star scout..." requirements. I fear we have slid even further down the slippery slope allowing rank requirements to become just a checklist and diminishing the other aspects more and more. In the early ranks it has been a significant detriment to the program in many areas because allowing a scout to do requirements for any rank at any time, waters down the learning by decreasing the opportunities for growth in a progression of small steps with increasing difficulty and rigor. /offmysoapbox

True. Most forums are just to plane.

I am not a big supporter of tangents; I usually prefer secants.

When I was a cub, I remember the BnG as a big dinner with the entire pack. We only did whole pack activities about 3 times a year, everything else was done as a den. We didn't "cross over", not sure when that term started, or where. We spent the spring time going on different camping trips with different troops. We joined the troop of our choice in the fall. This gave us a entire year of hiking and camping as Boy Scouts with our patrol and troop before our first Boy Scout Summer camp. In my opinion, we keep pushing things down to younger and younger boys. If I had the power I would significantly decrease the multiple requirement options for joining Boy Scouts. Specifically eliminate the "bonus" for arrow of light. It would be 11 years old or completed the fifth grade; that's it. I would also go back to earning webelos badge as a pre-requisite for arrow of light. I think the way things are done now makes the transition more difficult, and is a detriment to the program. Unfortunately it seems HQ is making decisions based on membership numbers. The problem is these decisions impact the program which decreases quality. It seems the business mindset in the US has been to decrease quality in the hopes of increasing quantity...ie the walmart model. I find this sad for BSA and for a majority of US companies which use market share as the most important metric. /rant

To me, it would make more sense if the red vs green were indeed opposites. If green = posts which one agrees, likes or finds helpful, the red should = posts which one disagrees, dislikes or does not find helpful. The means for reporting a post as malicious, off-topic or spam should be the "report" button. How you describe the current set up, it invites confusion and inappropriate (by your definition) use. Also it makes the "report" button redundant. My 2c.

My "summer camp" has been 2+ weeks in the wilderness with no facilities. Toilets were cat holes dug far from camp, we bathed in the lakes. Besides not killing good bacteria, "no soap" also allows the body to equalize in its body oil production. Shampoo in particular strips all oils, and the body reacts. After 2-3 days of rinsing off in lakes (some barely above 50 deg F) hair isn't greasy anymore as the body equalizes.

Just another reason why I am a proponent of waiting to join boy scouts until the fall.

Unless the Norman Rockwell work pre-dated 1923 in which case it would fall under public domain.

Or an app with the pamphlets accessible that way. The new electronic pamphlets could include tutorial videos, or links to access the video via youtube which could then generate ad revenue. Lots of ways to make them 21st century.

For purchasing, the most thrifty source is used. Once the style, design, model etc... has been decided, one can usually find an almost new version for pennies on the dollar. Many, many people buy gear and use it once and then resell it. There are even websites just for reselling gear. I personally find the best deals on forums which have buy/sell sections. It takes some patience to acquire gear in this manner though.

I think there is a distinction between "a service project" and "an eagle service project". In fact the requirements do spell out the difference. For Eagle: 5. While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to any religious institution, any school, or your community. For Life: 4. While a Star Scout, participate in six hours of service through one or more service projects approved by your Scoutmaster. The distinction is participation vs. plan, develop and lead.