DuctTape

Teaching resilience, yes. Bullying, harassment, and abuse will always be there, but that doesn't mean we just accept it as ok, or even a good thing. Teaching resilience in the face of hardship is good, and I support it wholeheartedly. We also teach ethical behavior and continuing to purposely be hurtful to others is not ethical behavior in my opinion.

Like most things, the idea of "safe spaces" has gone to far. All people should be safe in all places from bullying, harassment, and abuse. The term "safe space" is/was/should be recognition that bullying, harassment, and abuse are not tolerated at any level. It is sad that many places allowed the continuum of what should be unacceptable behavior towards others to continue, and in the most egregious perpetuated. For sure the pendulum has swung very hard to the ridiculous, but I try not to lose sight of those who truly have been victimized, and ensure that I speak up when I witness bullying, harassment, and/or abuse and also do my best to ensure the environment in which I have influence nurtures kindness, helpfulness, etc...

Interesting to me when I volunteer to instruct for IOLS, and the number of participants who have completed WB, but not IOLS. The most interesting thing was the WBers who had little skill or knowledge of the basics in IOLS, patrol method, etc... Some of my fellow IOLS instructors were surprised that I never did WB.

For me it is all about the unit level. Always has been . It matters not to me what extra membership requirements some other unit uses to allow or disallow scouts or scouters from their rolls. If some other troop somewhere is a girl troop, it doesn't affect my troop. Just because the neighboring troop doesnt use the patrol method at all, and is basically an adult run activity center, it doesnr affect my troop. Just like we tell families and scouts, find the troop that you fit with. If it is no longer your current unit, find a different one.

I am also a hiking mb counselor, and have similar experiences. Don't even get me started on Backpacking mb. A lot of scouts don't even have a backpack!!

https://www.nccs-bsa.org

No. I said the problem here is the insistence that everyone needs to follow the same moral code vs the idea that each may have a different moral code.

The problem here is the insistence that everyone needs to follow the same moral code vs the idea that each may have a different moral code.

The uber compensated CEOs and other execs is unique to the US. Other economic powerhouses like Germany, Japan, etc... do not have trouble finding top tier executives and the disparity between their compensation and avg workers is a fraction of the US. Our companies do not need to compensate the execs at the current rate to draw top tier talent.

And many others believe (and live) differently according to their faith.

But that is only your belief based on your interpretation of your religious text for your god. Many many others have different religious beliefs based on their own. You believe you are right, else you would believe differently; but it is still a belief as is mine which differs greatly from yours. The BSA and the USA allow us both to keep our own beliefs.

Barry, we agree more than we disagree. In general I think where we do diverge, it is in minor details for the most part. Even with topics where it may appear we have fundamental differences, I think if we dove deep into the actual details, we would have much agreement. Please take my above statement, and all previous ones in the best possible scouting spirit.

The main thrust of BP's "practical religion" was not that by being religious one is a Scout, but instead when one is a Scout through their actions they are practicing their religion. I think the DRP and many who tout the need for a specific religion or god miss this nuance. I do not expect all to agree with me though and that is ok as I am a progressive and I do not expect everyone to believe as I do.

Looking at the arithmetic mean in a vacuum often ignores the bigger picture. Looking at quartiles instead would be a start. Even better would be to investigate further into the realities. Such as the number of Eagles who were "inactive" for a time period before finishing on their 18th b-day and for how long. Just taking the mean answers the question of the average, but if one desires to make a valid conclusion beyond the mere age, much more information is necessary.

The "yarns" in BPs Scouting for Boys were short stories of people living those principles. I think he had it right. The SM minute is a short story, a yarn, which tells the tale of one point of the law, oath, etc... One can even end the story with, "a scout is courteous" if one wishes to make it explicit.

It sounds like you have some adults wearing patches, not ASMs. Truth be told, if the SM has been doing this for 20 years, and doesn't see what you describe as a problem, I doubt anything will change. Now if he has only been "involved" and not as SM, and he is new to the role, then sitting down with him and his one ASM and discussing the vision of the troop might be in order. From there determine what intermediate steps need to occur to reach the vision. Who does what, when and how, etc... Until a core group takes the reins, you will be trying to herd cats. (mixed metaphor on purpose, just to do it.)

Sometimes it is difficult as you state. The coming together for campfire seems to be a great idea. So would inter-patrol competitions. To generate a real separation, one could encourage single patrol outings on occassion. This allows for different types of outings based on readiness of the patrol and on interest. Maybe one or 2 per year.

I do not think volunteer vs paid makes any difference. The CO put certain people in charge of certain activities, whether they are compensated with $ or smiles should make no difference. When I am teaching a class, other teachers defer to me. There is no "pulling rank". I was put in charge of that class and thus have the authority. I would not interfere with another teacher's class as I walk by the room. I think what bothers me the most about this entire discussion is the "pulling rank" and "i am the boss of you" mentality. I do not model this with the scouts or others. Frankly it is a dangerous way to operate. I know some disagree, and that is their perogative.

An idea to go along with the "reading" could be for a group to "act it out" as the narrator reads. Could work for some of the items, like buddy system, or STOP, or...

I would hesitate to believe it was resolved. It sounds like there will be an action taken (communication), but this does not guarantee a similar encounter will not be repeated. If adults were aware this was going to be an issue, past behaviors must have led them to that conclusion. Past behaviors are generally a good predictor of future. I would not be surprised if the situation repeated or even escalated. I would suggest having this conversation with the SM as a follow up so he can formulate a plan "for the next time."

By providing the supervision and oversight it will undoubtebly increase their exposure. A student club whose only tie to the university is that they allow them to hang up flyers and sign out rooms creates less exposure.

And yet the ones supervised by professionals have significantly more injuries than the student led activities. Yes that is the nature of those activities, and professional supervision mitigates some of the injuries. But the policy is based on potential, not actual. Second, I know of many student led outdoor activities in which the student leaders (adults) have significantly more training in their activity than some professional coaches. Being paid as a professional does not necessarily equate to being a highly qualified leader/instructor. Lastly, some outdoor clubs are affiliated or contract with other organizations which provide quality guides, leaders, expertise as needed. IMO, the risk aversion by Penn State is not for the safety of the students but for their own exposure to liability.

This is new to me. We never used the mb sash for anything except mbs.

Specific actions may or may not be hazing depending on context, intent and other factors. Is having a scout do push-ups hazing? If it is in context of encouraging physical fitness, probably not. Making a first year scout do push-ups to get his breakfast, yes. I may not be able to define it; but I know it when I see it.

growing up, our CO was "group of citizens". basically the troop committee.