DuctTape

I think all of this, the OP question et al, comes down to a fundamental question of whether the Charter Org Relationship exists for the Scout Unit (and members) to serve the CO, or the CO to serve the unit. To be clear, "to serve" I am NOT defining as subservient as in authority, but as to provide benefit to. Certainly both derive a benefit, but the fundamental question I posited is to distinguish the primary. Just like us scouters derive a benefit (smiles, etc...) from volunteering but our volunteering is primarily to benefit the scouts.

yes the hangup is membership vs program which is why I made the distinction between subset vs subsidiary. Subset, by definition is the elements (the members) of the set. Subsidiary is the ownership and control (the program).

Park, which is why I said "subsidiary program" as opposed to subset. The words have very different technical meanings. You can call it semantics if you'd like, but then you cannot say he was "technically correct".

I disagree. If set x is a subset of y, then all elements of x are in y. If the unit is subset of the CO, then all members of the unit must be members of the CO. In most cases there are members of the unit who are not members of the CO, in some cases members of the unit cannot be members of the CO. Thus a unit is not a subset of the CO. Now if you meant the unit sometimes is a subsidiary program of the CO, then I agree.

It is quite likely that life exists somewhere else in the vast universe, and is equally likely they have not visited us. In the unlikely event some super species has found us, and is advanced enough to travel to our little speck of stardust will surely be advanced enough to observe us undetected. Over the ages unknown celestial events have been explained by humans as gods, or the supernatural and now aliens. Over time we have learned the planets are not gods, eclipses and comets are not "signs", the auroras are not spectors. We humans have a tendency to invent other beings as a way to end our ignorance. It is arrogance really.

While you all are discussing okra (I never use it) I would suggest boneless thighs, much more flavor.

I agree with Parkman that the methods are largely complementary. As far as the main discussion, what I think is we must remember these are the methods, not the aims. I think someone earlier mentioned it, but it bears repeating. For example, the goal is not leadership development even though it sounds like it. Leadership development is a means (a method) for a scout to become able to do things for others. Advancement is not the outcome, but a means to encourage a scout to plan, prioritize, make choices to do things for themselves. Adult association is not to provide safety, but for scouts to see first hand how ethical adults treat each other, and the scouts. The adults set the example of how to best make ethical choices and helping others. Etc... When the methods get blurred with the purpose and aims; this begins the problems and a method or two slowly become the desired outcomes instead of the means to the end.

I would encourage folks to do all the requirements as written and time themselves. That multiplied by a "kid factor" is how long it would take to test each scout. Based on number of scouts and those leaders (adult or youth) who are testing the scouts will provide an approximate amount of time.

My all time favorite estate sale find was on the last day of a 3-day sale and everything was 50% off. There was not much left, but in the basement was a dusty bookshelf with a few raggedy looking books. To make this long story short, I purchased a 1911 first edition Boy Scout Handbook for 25-cents!

Not as a boullion cube, but as a paste... https://www.soupbase.com/mobile/Minors-Bacon-Base-16-oz-Gluten-Free-No-added-MSG/productinfo/086/

Great tip! That makes sense, I do the same when making plain white rice.

Using Knorr sides, or even ramen as a "base" adding other items can make a great meal. A passable Phad Thai can be made with ramen, some dried veggies, peanut butter, soy sauce.

or cream of wheat, or cream of rice.

This is great. The refried beans and cheese make a great base for almost anything. Add an egg for breakfast for example.

D cell batteries in flashlights? I haven't seen them since the 1980s. Brings back memories. I still have (don't use it) my french made candle lantern. I haven't used general illumination in decades. A headlamp of course for specific tasks, but in general we try not to light up the area with lanterns or candles.

On same token, english muffin with sausage and cheddar. A slice of tomato is optional but highly recommended. Alternatively, use a bagel.

Not sure how this thread is relevant to the forum, even in the issues/politics category. Mods, please correct me if I am off-base, but I thought the I/P forums still needed "some relevance" to the general scouting theme.

What the others want is immaterial. The COR makes the call.

A mantra of mine which may be apropos, "It's not what you are saying, but how you say it."

I am very glad to hear you have survived your ordeal. My hopes for a full recovery. All I can offer to you as help through this transition is to remind you of all your efforts, given in love to those in your ward and the knowledge that these efforts will continue to bear fruit long after you step away. Much like that of the planter of an orchard. You have grown the seeds, tended to the young saplings and pruned away that which inhibits. You have done great work and now can be proud to witness the results. Feel not sadness for your changing role, but gladness that because of your efforts your role has changed. Be well, and enjoy the path which lays before you.

At this point I would suggest going to the District/Council and getting the paperwork signed there "under disputed circumstances" and continuing on. Any further questions from the SM should then be answered thusly, "Thank you for your input. My project is progressing with the support of my family, the beneficiary and the BSA. I look forward to its completion and learning a lot from the experience. Thanks again."

I would have this come from the COR. I would also include that he is not an approved leader and since he does not have a child in the program he is not welcome to attend pack/den events. If he shows up, then he will be escorted out and (if necessary) the authorities will be called. Yes, the COR and you need to be this firm. He is trying to take advantage of your willingness to "work things out". Nothing less than a complete prohibition from attendance.

I believe Wiscinsin has some national forest land. Regs vary (slightly) between areas, but most have free dispersed camping opportunities. Of course this requires backpacking (or paddling) in to make camp and group size regulations (like a patrol size... which is perfect!)

What is interesting is the Scout Handbook and Patrol Leaders HB, I think give a cursory of the "why", but little concrete "how" or "what". Unlike the older books which were more complete.

I feel badly for your son, and also for the other boys. None of them "earned" the mB, and worse none gained much of anything from the "adult association" nor from the class. I AM a trained, certified educator and as a mB counselor I refuse to "teach a class" and I abhor the use of the workbooks. Scouts is not supposed to be school; nothing of the sort. I am saddened that many requirements tend to gravitate towards school-like work and districts/councils have mB "colleges". This makes advancement no longer a method, but the purpose; IMO that is wrong.