DuctTape

I think one of the sacred cows will need to be the Chartering Organization concept as the "middle man" in the bureaucracy. Authority of Scouting units will need to be controlled by BSA and not outsourced to a CO. There could still be a relationship of some sort with these other organizations but final authority and control will need to lie with BSA. edit: as far as recharter, the problem was an amalgamation of re-charter and membership. These are two separate items and need not exist together as paperwork. The Charter (if it continues) is an agreement between a CO and the BSA and does not include any membership info.

ummm, no thank you.

This will require significant training of parents to not interfere by "stopping by to visit" or "bringing treats", etc... As it stands, parents are allowed to view all program, so nothing bars them from interference except training them to not interfere. But I suspect, that is truly what many parents want (b/c they do not understand the real purpose of Scouts) so to suggest program will not change is folly.

According to this, troops have been out of compliance whenever they invite webelos dens (from another CO) to visit, or camp. IMO whomever wrote the Q/A, had a pre-determined answer and then just tried to justify it without realizing the implications. The easiest answer would have been: "Yes, however each of the units is still responsible to their own CO. A unit may invite individual members to visit, and participate in the unit's activities."

Maybe the lack of mBs and no dining halls will allow scouts to have a real summer camp as described by BP instead of simply "living under canvas".

Great article. I followed an embedded link to the other article about UVaS Scoutmaster training. Reading the content summary of that course should shame anyone who considers current scoutmaster training adequate.

From my experience, the saturation of those with adult-led scouting experience happened a long long time ago. With them it is even more difficult (impossible) to break them of that habit/belief. Most do not even realize it and will just respond with " well that's how my old troop did it." While I agree with Barry that an excellent patrol method, scout-led, scouting program will manifest as adults who are better able to provide a quality scouting program compared to those with little/no experience; those with a adult-led scouting experience are much much worse than those with little/no experience. At least the latter can be trained.

Are you saying they didn't just go to LicenseUniv and sit through a 1 hr presentation where they (maybe) "participated" in the discussion resulting in the DMV Commissioner granting the license?

If the purpose is for youth protection barriers to abuse as stated, then a mbc fits the criteria if unit leadership says "ok" regardless of paperwork. If not, then it really isnt about barriers to abuse.

While a MBC may not be designed to replace the direct contact leadership needs, a MBC as a second trained adult certainly fulfills the needs of youth protection barriers to abuse.

I agree with you about leadership development as an aim, which follows from the methods. I do not distinguish which method leads to a specific aim, as I believe they all have a role. I accept arguments that some methods may contribute more to certain aims, but it is not not a one-to-one relationship. I disagree with advancement being a goal and not a method. I agree that patrol activities will allow a scout to advance. As mentionrd, I see the methods working in concert with each other. As a method I see advancement as motivator, and an organizational structure. When advancement is used as a method in conjunction with the other methods it leads to the aims. Done inappropriately (as a goal in an of itself) it can detract from the aims. A simple example; a scout who desires to earn 2nd class (desire = motivation), will on a campout need to select a patrol site and recommend it to his PL. This requirement focuses the scout not only to look out for himself, but his mates. It involves the patrol (method) too, and together the methods provide training in good citizenship. The conversation with the PL helps develop leadership not only for the scout seeking 2nd class, but for his PL.

@desertrat77... your experience is a shining example of how the methods are used together. In this case advancement, personal growth, ideals and adult association.

This thread reminds me of a maxim my father used to say to me. "just because you can, does not mean you should."

Are the scouts not interested or just not seem to be interested? Appearances can be deceiving. I would start by having a conversation with the scout... "Hi Jimmy", good to see you. I have noticed you haven't been to our last couple of activities. We missed you. Everything going ok?"

so now we are pencil-whipping scouters with training. makes sense. 😢

Did she come to you and ask to be signed off? Did you ask her if she believes she has fulfilled the requirement as written?

Many many years ago our council (pre-merger) had donated/sold? Some local property to the county parks under the condition that they allow youth camping in perpetuity. This covenant still exists and many youth orgs (primarily scouts) use the property for camping. I remember using it as a scout. The only infrastructure were dirt roads and trails. Main areas had outhouses, which have been replaced by port-a-johns.

much has been discussed about council camps and their associated cost. IMO the biggest driver of these (continuing) costs has been the decades long increase in costly infrastructure to the properties. From construction of mess halls with commercial grade kitchens to pavillions and everything in between. Many of these construction projects were funded by donations but those donations were not enough to cover the legacy cost of the infrastructure. It is these legacy costs which are the drivers for budget shortfalls at the camps. If the BSA survives with the summit intact, we will see this same issue on a national scale which will make the original cost overrun of the summit look like peanuts. So then what is the solution? Well many (most?) troops camp a lot at various properties with much less infrastructure. National forests and other publuc lan likely are the bulk. They have little infrastructure to maintain. In fact my troop most often camps on public land where the only infrastructure is a parking lot. This is not a new concept. Most council properties began this way as wild forests where scouts could hike and camp. It was over time that council began to make camp indoors within the forest.

time to soak my outdoor clothes in permethrin for the year.

I am still waiting for certain parts of my body to grow and/or shrink based on the specific emails I received.

Operating separately as a single patrol has the advantage of strengthening the Patrol Method. Sure, every once in a while have a camporee where all patrols can compete. But most outings can and should be done by patrol. Even the boy troop with multiple patrols ideally should have patrol outings separate from troop outings.

We have done similar. I was wondering about more like a sports draft. It could include some pomp and circumstance which coupd add to patrol spirit. Raven PL: "The Raven Patrol selects John Q Smith from pack 86". *applause* JQSmith is presented the Raven Patrol emblem by the SPL. Patrols might even be encouraged to have den chiefs among their ranks to "scout" future patrol mates. Just thinking aloud here...

I have never seen it done, but has anyone ever had a plc induct new scouts into their patrol like a "draft"?

As cubmaster you should be making the arrangements for the campout, the den leaders need to do the rest. Re:sleeping. i am an outdoors guy. i sleep better camping than at home. a lot is getting used to it. BP slept in a hammock (illustrations show it was probably a "stretcher bed" aka cot).

GSA is an unsecured creditor? who knew.