DuctTape

If the purpose is for youth protection barriers to abuse as stated, then a mbc fits the criteria if unit leadership says "ok" regardless of paperwork. If not, then it really isnt about barriers to abuse.

While a MBC may not be designed to replace the direct contact leadership needs, a MBC as a second trained adult certainly fulfills the needs of youth protection barriers to abuse.

I agree with you about leadership development as an aim, which follows from the methods. I do not distinguish which method leads to a specific aim, as I believe they all have a role. I accept arguments that some methods may contribute more to certain aims, but it is not not a one-to-one relationship. I disagree with advancement being a goal and not a method. I agree that patrol activities will allow a scout to advance. As mentionrd, I see the methods working in concert with each other. As a method I see advancement as motivator, and an organizational structure. When advancement is used as a method in conjunction with the other methods it leads to the aims. Done inappropriately (as a goal in an of itself) it can detract from the aims. A simple example; a scout who desires to earn 2nd class (desire = motivation), will on a campout need to select a patrol site and recommend it to his PL. This requirement focuses the scout not only to look out for himself, but his mates. It involves the patrol (method) too, and together the methods provide training in good citizenship. The conversation with the PL helps develop leadership not only for the scout seeking 2nd class, but for his PL.

@desertrat77... your experience is a shining example of how the methods are used together. In this case advancement, personal growth, ideals and adult association.

This thread reminds me of a maxim my father used to say to me. "just because you can, does not mean you should."

Are the scouts not interested or just not seem to be interested? Appearances can be deceiving. I would start by having a conversation with the scout... "Hi Jimmy", good to see you. I have noticed you haven't been to our last couple of activities. We missed you. Everything going ok?"

so now we are pencil-whipping scouters with training. makes sense. 😢

Did she come to you and ask to be signed off? Did you ask her if she believes she has fulfilled the requirement as written?

Many many years ago our council (pre-merger) had donated/sold? Some local property to the county parks under the condition that they allow youth camping in perpetuity. This covenant still exists and many youth orgs (primarily scouts) use the property for camping. I remember using it as a scout. The only infrastructure were dirt roads and trails. Main areas had outhouses, which have been replaced by port-a-johns.

much has been discussed about council camps and their associated cost. IMO the biggest driver of these (continuing) costs has been the decades long increase in costly infrastructure to the properties. From construction of mess halls with commercial grade kitchens to pavillions and everything in between. Many of these construction projects were funded by donations but those donations were not enough to cover the legacy cost of the infrastructure. It is these legacy costs which are the drivers for budget shortfalls at the camps. If the BSA survives with the summit intact, we will see this same issue on a national scale which will make the original cost overrun of the summit look like peanuts. So then what is the solution? Well many (most?) troops camp a lot at various properties with much less infrastructure. National forests and other publuc lan likely are the bulk. They have little infrastructure to maintain. In fact my troop most often camps on public land where the only infrastructure is a parking lot. This is not a new concept. Most council properties began this way as wild forests where scouts could hike and camp. It was over time that council began to make camp indoors within the forest.

time to soak my outdoor clothes in permethrin for the year.

I am still waiting for certain parts of my body to grow and/or shrink based on the specific emails I received.

Operating separately as a single patrol has the advantage of strengthening the Patrol Method. Sure, every once in a while have a camporee where all patrols can compete. But most outings can and should be done by patrol. Even the boy troop with multiple patrols ideally should have patrol outings separate from troop outings.

We have done similar. I was wondering about more like a sports draft. It could include some pomp and circumstance which coupd add to patrol spirit. Raven PL: "The Raven Patrol selects John Q Smith from pack 86". *applause* JQSmith is presented the Raven Patrol emblem by the SPL. Patrols might even be encouraged to have den chiefs among their ranks to "scout" future patrol mates. Just thinking aloud here...

I have never seen it done, but has anyone ever had a plc induct new scouts into their patrol like a "draft"?

As cubmaster you should be making the arrangements for the campout, the den leaders need to do the rest. Re:sleeping. i am an outdoors guy. i sleep better camping than at home. a lot is getting used to it. BP slept in a hammock (illustrations show it was probably a "stretcher bed" aka cot).

GSA is an unsecured creditor? who knew.

I think some of this stems from scouters trying to create loopholes by saying "we won't call it a scouting event" simply as a means to avoid the rules when it clearly was a scouting event.

Barry, do you still have the documents for that course and would be willing to share them.?

Yep. It also promotes the "one and done" mentality and worse disincentivizes teaching, leadership and growth.

I get the point, however in my travels far too often the "scout learns" is the same thing as "the scout is tested". In the learning phase it is expected for the scout to teach others, to develop leadership as well as ensure they have learned the skill. If an adult just signs off because "they saw them do it once" or even without the scout being a significant part of the process, it denies the scout the real benefit of the advancement method and the sign off is the goal, not a method. Without having the scouts "ask" it denies them the opportunity to take ownership of their own journey, grow in self-reliance, and personal responsibility. I can see some instances where the PL could ask one of his scouts to "do xyz " and let him know that this would count as being tested for a tenderfoot requirement. However, as the scout grows, they should be taking more and more responsibility for their own advancement. I am sure this discussion does not come close to dealing with all the iterations and best practices. There are many ways to accomplish it.

I agree to an extent. The training is done while doing the activity. But this training is not when the requirement has been met. This is the first phase, "A scout Learns". After the scout has learned the skill, taught is to others and feels like he is ready, then he goes to his PL or mB counselor and says, "I'd like to be tested on xyz" . A scout who successfully passes the test, then is recognized as having "earned the badge".

no. those are not hallmarks of "toxic masculinity". Hallmarks of toxic masculinity are: denying young men the opportunity to express emotion except for anger. Promoting violence as the only acceptable means for conflict resolution. Treating women as objects. And defending all of these as the way to define "manliness".

I agree with most of what has been said. As far as dividing, if you do decide to go with NSPs, let them decide how to group themselves. While it might seem easier to say "two groups of eight". They might prefer a 4-6-6, while not necessarily "ideal by the book", the patrols are not for forever either. Then begins the difficult balance scouts changing patrols vs maintaining patrol culture. This is where adult association mentoring comes in to help scouts "make ethical decisions".

looking at the project phases, I would suggest more on the phases of the "execute the project", not the phases of the eagle application. At the very least encourage the scout to plan out these phases so the "day" of the project he isn't trying to figure out "what comes next" and "who is doing what". For example: At minimum for any project: Phases could be. 1. Prep area 2. Stage 1 of project (detail) 3. Stage 2... 4. Stage 3... 5. Cleanup area