DuctTape

ugh. the entire merit badge counselor process has been a dumpster fire for a while. There is zero attempt to determine whether an adult is in any way shape or form qualified to counsel scouts in a badge. Having an adult sign up because "we need a counselor for xyz" yet the adult has zero experience in the topic. And allowing scouts to be counselors at camp...

videos could use "actors" to model a meeting. As to the types you describe with the latter, often it is viewed as the SM just sits there. What is necessary for the SPL/PLC to have full control like that is continuous personal SM conferences with the PLs and SPL about how they are progressing. The feedback and growth during these conferences cannot be understated. IMO this is the most significant area of growth for most SMs... to provide the structure for continuous SM conferences. Before and after every meeting, activity, etc... They must NOT be done as a group, but as a personal SM conference (following YPT protocols).

yes. some are. I apologize for using a wide brush. My point (I bumbled) was that the bankruptcy hearings and tort against BSA cannot hold any individual liable unless they are named in the suit as a respondent.

That is only because the perpetrators are not being sued themselves.

The bankruptcy and related civil litigation does not preclude any victim from filing against the individual perpetrator. They just don't have as deep of a pocket to go after.

we could build a bridge out of it.

and a high percentage of politicians are lawyers.

A one night camping trip is not nearly enough. I had an ASM (who had a youth scouting experience) struggle for two years going on trips, and having late night conversations before he "finally got it." (his words).

I thought woodbadge was (not currently) an advanced scoutmaster course? Is that not the point many are trying to make? The problem I see is is that ALL the trainings are Intro level and there is nothing offered which is advanced. Pre-requisites are not obstacles, they are an acknowledgement that skills and knowledge increase on a continuum. Unfortunately this idea has spread throughout all of BSA even for the scouts. This is what created and perpetuates the one and done issue.

This is how I understood it, and is consistent with what I witnessed. I never did woodbadge myself (either old, new, or newest version). It seems that the newest is a basic intro course as opposed to the advanced course of old. What is interesting is I see the newest WBers touting it as something special, and thus "they" are special more than the oldest version WBers who truly were something special.

Because that is not what is being discussed. COs are doing events themselves at the same location.

Whatcha got for sale in that there bucket?

I do not have any insider information, but many councils in NY whose camps were struggling financially sold an easement to the State which provided a significant influx of cash in exchange for (limited) public access. A quick search shows the state does hold a public easement on the Pouch property, but I did not look to see when it was acquired.

Rarely people step up. Pleas for volunteers being ignored is common in most organizations and systems. Recruiting adults (and scouts) effectively requires personal invitations. All recruitment is Cheap, Easy, Effective... choose only 2.

Yes, delegation is key. So is ongoing mentoring/training of ASMs so that they are not trying to figure ot all out on their own. In another thread I wrote about having ASMs sit in on SM conferences to learn how to do them well. Along with this mentoring, the SM should view his ASMs as his patrol. He should be focused on building up the ASMs much like the PL builds up his patrol mates. I would also encourage the SM to invite a PL (at appropriate times) to sit in and listen to how the SM runs his SM/ASM meetings. This modeling of how to run a productive meeting will help the PL and also demonstrate some engagement strategies. Of course, a follow up discussion with the PL about what he observed and learned.

You have hinted at the main role of the SM/ASM as the solution. SM conferences. For most, these are something done at the end of a rank. They are much more important. SMs should be conferencing with the scouts continuosly. This should almost always be in the form of questioning (Socratic Method) to help the scouts learn and grow. Using your example of type A scouts... The situation should not go on until the Bs leave. Nor should the SM fix it, or attempt to intervene with a large group "talk". The SM needs to conference with the scouts individually (within YPT) to help the scouts learn and grow. The conferences will be different for each kid. Each should conclude with some action step the scout will attempt. Follow-up conferences in this type of situation is necessary to happen sooner than later. With your food spoilage scenario, the SM should conference with the PL before the campout (best is soon after menu is planned) to go over logistics. Again using questioning. "Jimmy, I see you are planning on having bbq chicken. Sounds delish? Does your cook for that meal have much experience cooking chicken?" This begins a dialogue. There should also be a follow up conference before the campout to alleviate any concerns of the SM. And another after the campout to go over the trip as a whole. If that sounds like a ton of conferences, it is. That is why BP suggested small troops to accomplish them all. SM conferences are the bread&butter of the ongoing training via adult association with the scouts. As was mentioned earlier, it is an art. Training of ASMs happens via sitting in (listening/observing only) on the SM have these conferences and then dialogue between SM and ASM to discuss it. Also ASMs gain experience by conducting conferences (with SM listening/observing only), again with follow up dialogue.

The saying in our neck of the woods was, "no scout ever died of starvation on a weekend camping trip".

I have often said (only semi-jokingly) that the demise of kids interpersonal and conflict resolution skills was organized sports. Organized sports have pushed down to the youngest ages and subsumed all sportsplay activities. Prior kids would play kickball, or tag or or street hockey in their neighborhood. They made up games too. When the inevitable conflict, you're out/safe, arose there was no adult making the call and the kids had to figure out a resolution. The most common was "do over". Kids didn't just make this up, they learned that from the older kid who learned from other older kids years before. In organized sports, the adults manage the teams, plan the games, are the umpires/refs managing the game, eliminating kid-kid conflict. The kids just play the game without learning any real life skills. The neighborhood kids playing the games developed a neighborhood culture, invented games, created/re-created teams, solved problems, resolved conflicts... all without adult interference. I opine, adults organizing the kids into "little league for 4 year olds" are the soul-crusher of kids sportsplay activities and thus deny kids the opportunity to learn, grow, resolve. This is also why kids and adults are having an even more difficult time with youth-led and patrol method. The kids do not have the neighborhood sportsplay experiences, and the adults think they must organize and solve everything. This is a (the) problem and the solution is self-evident. Give the kids more opportunity to do the things which require them to make decisions, interact, solve, etc... without having adults meddle. In the scouting world this can result in "lord of the flies" which is ok at first. Immediately after the SM/ASM uses that as an opportunity to train the scout leaders (PLs). Adults training scouts should be following the patrol structure. PLs then train APLs and their patrol. The SM should NOT intervene with a patrol (immediate safety concern notwithstanding) but allow the patrol to operate under the leadership of the PL. After, and ongoing the SM should be interacting with the PL to help him/her learn and grow. A SPL and/or troop guide will likely emerge after a time to alleviate some of the SM tutelage of the PLs.

True. Other adult led programs are fun for kids. But there IS something magical about youth-led. That is it directly leads to the mission of Scouting. Without it, adults make the (majority of) decisions. Scouts cannot learn to make good decisions without having the opportunity to make any decisions. Scouting as youth-led and via the patrol method is the structure which allows scouts to make decisions (including bad ones) and learn from them all while having fun.

Having scouters with youth scouting experience is not always better than zero experience. This is especially true for anyone who was a scout in the last 50 years. I have had more issues with adults who were scouts in troops who had no real patrol method, or scout-led structure. To train these adults means to begin with having them un-learn all the bad habits of their experience. It takes way longer. Those with zero experience are a blank slate to be trained. Both require a willingness to learn, but at least the latter have nothing to undo first.

Years ago I went to our UC (who knows me well) and let him know I was willing to help at the district and council level for training. He was ecstatic I was willing to lend my expertise so he sent it up the chain. About 6 months later I approached him again and said I have not heard anything. He told me he sent my info up the chain and was surprised no one got back to me as they are always looking for trainers. Another 6 months go by... nothing. When I saw our UC again I told him I only volunteer twice and then I stop. If they don't want me, I am happy to volunteer where I am appreciated. A week later the district training chair contacted me and asked if I would help with IOLS. One would think that an organization run mostly by volunteers and predicated on training would jump at the chance to have more people to help with training but apparently that wasn't the case. From talking to others, this is not isolated to our district and council but is rather widespread.

yes.

Welcome. You mentioned being a leader. What is your specific position?

Interesting that the standards apply to all camps with a few carve out exceptions most notably The National Jamboree. The attempt to state the Jambo is subject to more stringent standards is laughable. If that were the case, no need to exclude it.

good ideas. I'd start with some of the old info from the 1950s Patrol Leader Handbook. Also, could it be a communication tool for Patrols Leaders around the country to share ideas and commiserate.