EagleScout441

SR-6 Lodge 111 here, I don't know of anyone from SR-7, sorry.

I think the question is whether or not a youth would have to be registered to a unit, whether it be a Venturing, Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, or Sea Scout unit, in order to continue being a OA member.

Qwazse wrote: "So if a boy transfers from a troop to a crew, does he lose his OA membership?" No, he does not. "If not, then do we have a precedent of allowing venturers to be arrowmen?" Technically. If a Venture wants to be a arrowman he has to be elected as a Boy Scout or a Varsity Scout. If a scout has dual membership with Venturing and Boy Scouts at the time of OA elections is he still eligible even though he is a Venturer?

"Venturing is a completely different animal than Boy Scouts, just like Cub Scouts is completely different than Boy Scouts. It has some elements of Exploring becasue it did split from Exploring. Hence the specialization." "dedicating their time to arts and hobbies, sports, youth ministry, and seafaring." 1. We already have sports focused BSA units, they're called Varsity Scouts. 2. We already have seafaring BSA units, they're called Sea Scouts. 3. We already have youth ministry groups, they're called church youth groups. No art and hobby groups come to mind but I'm sure there are a few out there. If the BSA wants to have units focused on these things than by all means go right ahead, but don't give them all the same title. Explorers are career based and that's it. Why are Venturing Crews 5 different things?

"Who's gonna decorate the dining hall for the dance the next evening? Who's procuring a barge so we can have a cruise on the river? Who's organizing morning worship? Who's throwing out the first pitch at the baseball game?" Boy Scouts have no problem finding people to organize morning worship or organize activities for that camporee, the point is they don't need entire troops dedicated to just activities/games or ministries in order to get these things done, why can't Venturing do the same thing?

I mean no disrespect but role-playing isn't exactly what scout crews are supposed to be about. I would love to go out and re-enact a medieval battle, but they shouldn't call themselves a BSA Venture Crew.

"The council doesn't care as long as the money comes in." And that's why there are crews focused on everything from role-playing games or anime, to what it's supposed to be: HA, Leadership, and "a chance to learn and grow in a supportive, caring, and fun environment."-"What Is Venturing" -scouting.org :

College Scouting Reserve: http://listserv.tcu.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind9010&L=scouts-l&D=0&P=2803 It is a way for scouts to stay involved while going to college and have little time for scouting or the OA. They aren't registered with any unit or district but instead with the council alone.

He did take the invitation didn't he?

We had a blackpowder rifle class at this years summer camp. They had a small demonstration during flag one morning, they were dressed up in authentic clothes and everything. "I can see BSA not being cool with pistols in young hands. The shortness of the weapon makes muzzle control/sweeps more of an issue that with a long gun." Then put an age limit on it, 15 years old sounds about right. That's why Venturing has a handgun program, minimum age is 14. "Firing blackpowder on a still humid morning leaves enough smoke hanging in the air that you have to pause between shots to see the targets again. How did the cowboy gunfighters ever hit anything with their second shots?" They didn't. "(Not suggesting that you let the boys shoot at night...)" Of course not.

"You've clearly been putting a lot of thought into this." Thanks. "you don't always need a fly." I mentioned the dining fly, on pretty much every campout we setup 2 dining flys, one for the adults, one for the scouts. Sometimes the adults will sleep in the dining fly(we only have one female adult and she doesn't come on all the outings), and sometimes they'll setup tents. Us scouts setup all three patrols' cooking station under that 1 dining fly. The scout cooking areas are almost always together(sometimes a little too close it seems). They prefer having the fly, but they don't want to setup more than 1. So if it rains about 1/2 of the boys will huddle under that one fly while the remaining few will go with their buddies and play cards in their tent. "One three-man tent sets up in a hurry." We don't have three-man tents, that's one thing about our troop, there're kind of cheap. Two man tents are all we have, to get a picture of how big these tents are the average size ground pad, like that one you get at walmart, if you put two of those in a tent they will not only touch the corners of the tent but also overlap each other about an inch. When the troop got new ones they didn't bother to buy the ones with vestibules, so basically you either lay your gear on your feet or you use it as a pillow. And a few of the old ones. that have vestibules, are covered in patches. That's why I got my own tent, but it started leaking and I've been wanting to buy a hammock anyway, so now I have an excuse to get one, I just have to wait a couple months to get some birthday money so I can afford it. Oh yeah, and the adults' tents are a lot nicer than ours, figures. " "PL Reports" are part of each meeting. Not the PLC." If that's the case we do nothing of the sort.

What is Venturing supposed to be about? http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Venturing/About/venturing.aspx Where have they gone wrong? Venture Crews are left to do their own thing, their crew activities can be whatever they want, they don't have to be related to the outdoors, or anything related to scouts. While many do actually do the things listed on scouting.org(like in my council, thankfully), but many more do whatever they want. As emb021 said in the "Starting a New Venturing Program" thread: "Venturing crews will fall into one of 5 categories: outdoors, arts/hobbies, sports, youth ministries (basically church youth groups), or Sea Scouts. When one speaks of "high adventure", its usually some of the outdoor crews, maybe also Sea Scouts. Even then, the types of crews can be mindboggling to those not open to the possibilities. I know of role play game crews, anime crews, SAR crews, outdoor crews, scuba crews, sailing crews, music crews, soccer crews, church youth group crews, WWII re-enactment crews, Civil war re-enactment crews, mountainman/frontiersman crews and more." You want to know what kind of high adventure? Look at Crew 2147 in Ooltewah, TN for example: http://netroster.scouter.com/roster.aspx/Boy_Scouts_of_America/Councils/Crew/item/440663265 (it says Boy Scout Crew but they are a regular co-ed Venture Crew) It only specifies 4 things on there but I know for a fact that they go rappelling, whitewater rafting(Class IV Rapids), and, occasionally, sailing. I know that because one of their members was in my patrol(they called it a "clan" there) at Kodiak Leadership Training(Kodiak Challenge).

"There's no such thing as voting every 6 months and then putting up with a mistake. If someone gets elected and doesn't do the work, he's out and someone that wants to make things happen takes over." You have no idea how much I wish that was true in my troop!

I've always wanted to go to Yosemite. I don't know why, but I've always been fascinated by geysers/volcanoes/pretty much any natural disaster, I've written three different school papers on natural disasters, one on the general subject, one on volcanoes/earthquakes, and a third on tornados/hurricanes. Be sure to visit Old Faithful for me.

I'd like to get an idea of which is preferred. I prefer hammocks, mainly because they are generally lighter weight, I am not sleeping on the hard ground, and it for me it's a lot more comfortable. Tents seems to be the standard, probably because they tend to be cheaper, warmer, and more than one person can occupy each one. Of course, these factors vary depending on the tent/hammock.

I am currently/technically not a member of Venturing, but I did spend a week at Kodiak Leadership Training(Kodiak Challenge), a Venturing Camp which let Boy Scouts in this year. I just found a good crew to join a couple weeks ago but I haven't had a chance to make my membership official. Hearing what Ventures have to say about the OA at Kodiak is what brought me to my position in this debate. Now, at the camp most of the Venturers seemed to be HA(High Adventure) oriented, rappelling, whitewater rafting, etc., but as emb021 said in the "Starting a New Venturing Program" thread: "Venturing crews will fall into one of 5 categories: outdoors, arts/hobbies, sports, youth ministries (basically church youth groups), or Sea Scouts. When one speaks of "high adventure", its usually some of the outdoor crews, maybe also Sea Scouts. Even then, the types of crews can be mindboggling to those not open to the possibilities. I know of role play game crews, anime crews, SAR crews, outdoor crews, scuba crews, sailing crews, music crews, soccer crews, church youth group crews, WWII re-enactment crews, Civil war re-enactment crews, mountainman/frontiersman crews and more." So you're right about that, that is one of the flaws in my argument, many Venture Crews are vastly different compared to other crews. My view of Venturers is what I've seen in my council. Highly willing to serve and highly experienced scouts who love the outdoors, that is what I saw. How will allowing Venturers into the OA support and improve your lodge? Let's say they only allow outdoor crews to have elections. Outdoor crews are basically upgraded Boy Scouts, that's what I have seen. Letting them in gives you older and, in many cases, more experienced scouts. HA seems to be one of the focuses of outdoor crews. Just like the BSA has its divisions, Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, Venturing, and Sea Scouts, Venturing has its own divisions, but the scouts choose for themselves what the theme of their "division" will be.

"how far apart are the patrols from each other and the adult leaders?" Usually about 15-20 feet between patrols, shared cooking areas most of the time(that gets really annoying, but they don't want to setup another dining fly). The adults are usually about 50 feet away and hardly ever come to our campsite. "The part about not assigning boys to a patrol, but rather having friends choose to be together" The current SPL, whose term ends Monday, took all the patrols and assigned them according to attendance. With only 5 guys in a couple patrols, 2 pairs of brothers in the troop, and the fact that our troop lacks good, long-term planning, we frequently have scouts who attend the meetings but don't attend outings. Before we redid the patrols 2 patrols each had a pair of brothers, and if for some reason they couldn't go that left 1 patrol with only 3 people, the patrol redo also split up brothers. "a sign that the PL is not the boy's buddy" Exactly, the patrol elections rarely pick the right person for the job, instead they pick the person they like the most. Which is one of the reasons why, if I get elected SPL on Monday, I am going to try to make it where SPL and ASPL nominate PLs and then let patrols vote, rather than patrols nominating and voting. "Finally, patrol leaders should report at the meetings and "talk a little smack" to one another." We have PLCs about once every 2 months, really the only thing that gets accomplished is planning what happens in each meeting. Mainly because the PLs can't even tell you what rank the APL is, much less what they are accomplishing.

In my troop we have 3 patrols of about 5-8 each(it varies on outings), we have patrols that only act as patrols when they are required: cooking, patrol meeting within troop meetings, patrol vs patrol games, etc. When scouts have ideas they usually go right to the SPL, there is a lack of communication between scouts and their patrol leaders(PLs). Also, I know that patrols can do their own activities outside of the troop, i.e. merit badges, but while I've tried to get them to organize stuff like that, they just don't seem to want to. They seem to be satisfied doing the same games and knot relays that we seem to do every single meeting and the once a month campouts. How do I get them active as patrols rather than just as a troop? Experimenting with the color system.

The GTSS states that in order to have female youth there must be female adults, the same applies for male youth.

"What is a Venture Scout?" Is that a serious question? A Venture Scout is a member of a Venture Crew. "I don't think we are your target audience." You might not be but there are Venturers on this Forum.

I assumed you scanned your own photos from the 1970's and 1980's when the Outing was still in scouting, when boys were allowed to be carefree and have fun. Not wrapped up in bubble wrap If you don't mind can you take this comment down, I'm trying to get all those pics off the forum.

Technically yes.

Lets just hope for now that some Venturers will actually vote.

Thankfully, my troop leaders aren't like that, I have mentioned my future departure to Venturing to a couple of them, they thought it was good that I was moving on to bigger and better things.

See, now why doesn't scouting do cool stuff like JoeBob's HA Level system? This is the kind of thing scouts want to do! I would love to see some handguns. As far as shooting sports goes I probably do a lot more than the average scout. I have a homemade slingshot(I haven't shot it in a long time though), a 50lb Ben Pearson Recurve Bow(which I am fairly accurate with), and a bolt action 20 gauge shotgun(my grandfather gave it to me a couple weeks ago, haven't gotten a chance to shoot it yet). Although, with all these weapons and experience I still don't have any shooting sport merit badges.