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I'm seeking offers for most of my collection which includes lodge service award flap and several years of lodge encampment participant as well as staff patches. One year there were only 25 produced of the staff patch. I'm willing to part with that one and the same year's participant patch. If interested send me an offer. mark at blackwalnutjigs dot com, remove spaces and use the correct symbols.

johnponz, are you responding to me? I absolutely do not advocate the wearing of the sash on the belt and in fact could quote publications spanning a few decades where has has been forbidden. That I do not agree with the Chair does not make me wrong and him right by virtue of his title. Folks in leadership roles are often wrong. I'll guess he has not followed the progression of changes to the OAHB. If he is changing policy then perhaps he should also see that the OAHB is written in such a way as to make it clear and not open to interpretation. I can see how some read it contrary to how I read it but I follow what I was taught and what I can defend with resources deaaling with correct punctuation. But really believe what you want it matters not to me as I no longer have a pony in this race.

I think this is where I can jump in. In the 1980's the OAHB stated: "The Arrow sash is worn at Order of the Arrow functions and at special Scouting functions such as courts of honor." page 127 1980 printing of the 1977 copyright. For a historical perspective that should just about clear it up. Meaning to me that by the rule at that time Acco is wrong. Sadly in later versions, copyrights and printings this was changed so that now it reads: "The sash is worn at Order of the Arrow functions and special Scouting functions, when members need to be identified as Arrowmen rendering special services." 2010 printing. My read and the read and interpretation of others I have asked at NLATS is that "Special Scouting functions" and "needing to be identified" are two different instances. Thus the interpretation aspect. Yes I do not agree with the Chairman you are quoting. he is simply wrong unless he is making a policy change and then he is misguided IMHO. To answer directly the OP, the correct answer was given right away. I do not expect to change anyone's mind. However I think it is helpful if folks would either do the research or keep from posting because this thread is full of wrong answers. Either the policy has changed over the years, and prior to the 80's or '77 copyright I have been told that "special Scouting functions" was not an option, or it has not since then it has just been so poorly stated as to confuse the issue. Peoples ability to read and understand what they are reading and how punctuation changes the meaning of clauses, sentences, and phrases has also diminished over this time period.

Basement, thanks for being helpful! Perhaps next time you can actually answer the OP's question and only provide links that actually deal with his question rather than the broader subject. Your first non-link resource is a rather short and drafty thread. Once you changed the course it was taking it simply died and fell off the current posts page which believe it or not some folks look to first. This issue has been brought to the forefront last week by Scouting magazine on Facebook. Seems like a great time to revisit it as clearly only a few people commented on your thread in March.

I think this is one more EPIC FAIL idea that BSA has come up with. How soon will this crap become a required part of the program? Tote and chip makes sense. This however, must be re-earned annually. In boards of review we are not allowed to re-test or even test and yet this needs to be an annual requirement and when you read deeper it appears to be a entire unit all at once kind of thing. The BSA does not need to be the answer to every single facet of of youths life.

Since we are talking about a new troop I say it depends on theneeds of the youth filling that troop. In the case of my troop we started with older boys that were not getting what they needed in other troops but nearly all needed POR for advancement so SPL was used and still is. With a SPL you then can have an ASPL which satisfies a rank requirement.

+1 emb021

I think part of the "problem" is the software is proprietary to this forum and Terry is part of the development team, if not the owner. If this is true then there is also likely some amount of ego involved; just speculating...... Different browsers act different ways. With Firefox I do not have to log in each time I post because the browser is set to auto fill that for this site. With IE I do but only at this forum. None of the other forums do I have to do that for. Images would be splendid. The formatting box should be built-in. On the other hand it looks like I shoould also be able to just code it as I go if only I could remember my HTML........

Am I the only one that sees irony here? BSA prohibits Boy Scouts from using power tools and yet we will now have a welding MB. I too think we need more MB's like this. Away from the metro areas schools still have shop classes. My son's high school has a full time Ag teacher.

SP and TF. Get a grip guys! Please do yourselves a favor and reread the entire thread without your bias. Read things in context. You villify myself and others for explaining what IS policy and our desire to perform our jobs in Scouting the way they are proscribed to be done. No where in this thread have I read where an Advisor wished to prevent a parent from access. Discouraged does not equal exclude. Education does not equal bullying. You can continue to have the thoughts you have but you are still wrong. There is no youth protection issue here. Do the research yourself. Go have that talk with your SE and sign up for the very next NLATS course and learn for yourself! Now for the ugly part: SP, why not focus on your responsibilites rather than those of other trained adults. It seems you are involved in the Cub Scout level. STAY THERE! We have enough issues in Boy Scouting caused by Cub Scouters that we really do not need even more attacking our Honor Society. I wonder if you and TF were OA members as youth? If you were how was your expierence? If not is that the source of your seeming hostility towards the OA? The OA sadly is just a shadow of what it once was as is Scouting itself IMHO. The knee-jerk, sky is falling, CYA, paranoid, eliminate rather than manage all risk types have made it so. Perhaps you will be happy when they remove the outdoors from SC......! And SP if you wish to give Robert Fawcett a call I am sure he will know who I am. You could even go visit the folks in the council south of you and have a chat with two close friends that transfered there from here. All advisors serve at the discretion of the Supreme Chief of the Fire, should he wish to remove me so be it. Until such a time I will do my best to fulfill my duties as procribed by the program as it is written which is exactly as Eagle 92 has so stated. Perhaps it is my enthusiasm that frightens you?

Pie in the sky but I say ditch all but Boy Scouts. No Cubs, no Varsity, no Venturing, and no Explorer (LFL). That said the reality of the situation is that BSA is more interested in numbers than serving the needs of what should be our primary target audience which is 11-18. It is my opinion that Cubs turns off as many or more boys and families to Scouting than cross over, and once they are turned off to Scouting they never give us a second look. It has been that way since at least the 70's. I remember then as a Scout that folks knew more about Cub Scouts than Boy Scouts and yet then as now we call our selves Boy Scouts of America! Part of BSA's mission is for boys to base the rest of their life on the Oath and Law yet most that join Cubs drop out before earning Tenderfoot! If the ancillary divisions can not survive on their own why have them. If Cubbing has higher numbers than Boy Scouts IMNSHO shorten or drop Cubbing to improve recruitment and retention of Boy Scouts. I would much prefer a smaller organization that makes a meaningful difference in the lives of youth than one that only superficially does to more youth. Quality vs Quantity. Do that and then the age problem will be much simpler.

ThunderFox I'm not sure you actually mean what you wrote. I did find it quite interesting the Urban Dictionary definition for the words you used. Had you actually read all of the posts I have made over the years in this forum you might have discovered that I do think the OA should be shrouded in mystery. I am also very aware of the rules and agree with their purpose, but which rule are you thinking I do not like? Surely not the rule that OA ceremonies need to be safeguarded. I take seriously my obligation and admonition. Parents and others with concerns need to consult with Advisors, and yes if it ever comes the time when I am placed into this position I will try my hardest to encourage parents that are not members to decide that it is not in their youths best interest to watch. Should they not agree after discussion I shal accomodate them as best we can as long as they do not interrupt the ceremony for others. All that said I fail to see how you are getting to a public relations nightmare with this. We are a voluntary honor society within the framework of the BSA. We are by design an intergral part of each council.

If a Scout attempts to find a job will his parents request to be present during the interview? Are parents allowed to sit on their own son's eagle board of review or any board of review of their child? SP if you were in my district or council I would not give you the time of day and would seek your removal from serving at those levels. I think you lack judgment and wisdom! Oh wait a minute that is what you would say about me, yeah whatever, I'll just chalk it up to you being anti OA. I'd not do that to you as it is not scoutly. I see the OA as one of the best parts of a boys experience in Scouting if only we adults would just stay out of the way and let it happen and should he impress upon those who have lived closest to him his sincere desire to live acording to the high ideals of the Oath and Law, and earn election from them. Character is what happens when no one, espically parents are not looking. Are his peers going to be so impressed if his parents helicopter over him?

Eagle92 if memorey serves they hired an IT guy before Linda moved on,(not that she was in charge of IT) perhaps shortly after the last Jamboree. Did that guy quit since then and be replaced? From what I can gather the IT dept. has not been staffed by actual IT folks. Hence the need for 'developers' to have issued upgrades to fix the bugs in Scouting Community while they played with that software package and then abondoned it while it was stil in use. I hope that if they do migrate to a different software that they do so with a redundant backup copy of the database first. I know first hand some of the problems with training records is the folks entering them wrong.

Beardad what does your pack's policy have to do with the OP? I think units should run away from anyone regardless of age with real experience in Scouting. What better way is there to make Scouting an award factory lead by adults with no experience or knowledge in Scoutcraft! (tongue in cheek) When I was in college I was that youth! I wished to stay active in OA and to do that I needed to be registered. The only option at that time for an 18 year old was to serve as an ASM so I found a unit in my college town that wanted my help. I was not an Eagle Scout but I possessed more scouting skills than most of those that I knew. Advancement was simply not my objective while a youth. Adventure was! I think units that pass on volunteers due to age alone sadly are cheapening their youths experience.